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Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: xasop on May 30, 2021, 08:32:35 PM

Title: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on May 30, 2021, 08:32:35 PM
There have been renewed calls for a referendum on Irish unity following Britain's recent self-immolation. Until recently, broaching the subject at all would have been utterly futile, but the introduction of the Irish Sea border is starting to change that, as Euronews reports.

Quote from: https://www.euronews.com/2021/05/03/northern-ireland-at-100-with-unionism-in-turmoil-is-now-the-time-for-a-united-ireland
While the appetite for unification may not yet be hungry enough to push for constitutional change, there is a growing urgency at least in increasing cross-border cooperation, given the two countries' shared geography and history.

A working group has produced a report on the matter with some recommendations, according to the Irish Sun.

Quote from: https://www.thesun.ie/news/7045706/united-ireland-referendum-plan-highly-unwise-expert-report/
The final report by the Working Group on Unification Referendums on the Island of Ireland states: “It would be highly unwise for referendums to be called without a clear plan for the processes of decision-making that would follow.

“Such a plan would need to be agreed by the governments, working closely with the full range of actors in Northern Ireland, across the island of Ireland, and in the UK.”

So there is some work to be done, but headway is being made, which is nice to see. Given the obstacles, we probably won't see a referendum take place this year, but it seems within the realm of possibility to happen within the next couple of years.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on May 30, 2021, 09:47:04 PM
No one gives a fuck.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/04/22/brits-increasingly-dont-care-whether-northern-irel


The Irish can pay for them if they want.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/post-brexit-britain-may-not-want-to-pay-for-northern-ireland-1.3723855

 




Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on May 30, 2021, 10:04:43 PM
No one gives a fuck.

Thank you for illustrating why there is increasing support for a united Ireland.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on May 30, 2021, 10:22:22 PM
Thank you for illustrating why there is increasing support for a united Ireland.
What has it got to do with you?
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: DuncanDoenitz on May 30, 2021, 10:48:42 PM
No one gives a fuck.

Thank you for illustrating why there is increasing support for a united Ireland.


Concurred.   

Being a Northern Ireland resident, I'd vote for unification with anywhere that would have us, but only if its somewhere that Thork isn't; eg Ireland, Iceland, USA, North Korea. 

And if we do get a referendum, for f*ck's sake ask us a proper question that has 2 answers.  Unlike Brexit, where the choice was;

   1.  Stay in the EU.
   2.  Do something else, but we don't know what those choices are yet. 

(incidentally, I voted 2.).
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Pete Svarrior on May 31, 2021, 08:03:50 AM
(incidentally, I voted 2.).
Do you think it might be time for a "lessons learned" session before a hypothetical reunification vote, or do you intend to just keep on keeping on?
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on May 31, 2021, 08:30:33 AM
What has it got to do with you?

A united Ireland could have great benefits for the EU. For one thing, it would open up the possibility of Ireland leaving the CTA in the future and joining Schengen instead.

Besides, not that it's any of your business, I found out last year that I qualify for Irish citizenship through having a parent born in Northern Ireland. It seems I may qualify for UK citizenship that way too, but the UK has shown great determination in making its citizenship as useless as possible over the past few years. I've just been waiting out the pandemic so I can arrange the documentation I need for an Irish passport.

So, as an Irish citizen and an EU resident, I have plenty of reason to want the British kicked out from where they don't belong.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: DuncanDoenitz on May 31, 2021, 08:47:35 AM
(incidentally, I voted 2.).
Do you think it might be time for a "lessons learned" session before a hypothetical reunification vote, or do you intend to just keep on keeping on?


In retrospect I don't always make smart decisions, but I will defend to the death my right to keep on making stupid choices. 
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Crudblud on May 31, 2021, 10:06:34 AM
I support the Irish and Northern Irish right to self-determination on this point, as I do the Scottish people on the point of their independence. The only way to know if either is good or not is to do it, I just hope that in both cases they do it better than our circus of a government has.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on May 31, 2021, 12:11:15 PM
In retrospect I don't always make smart decisions, but I will defend to the death my right to keep on making stupid choices.
And I would defend your right to carry on making stupid choices. Not with my life. But maybe with a strongly worded Facebook post or a cynical Tweet instead.

I support the Irish and Northern Irish right to self-determination on this point, as I do the Scottish people on the point of their independence.
No. The Scottish is different. They had a vote only 6 years ago. Supposedly once in a generation. You can't keep having referendums until you get the result you want. 25 years is a generation. In Parliament, set the date of the next referendum to be 18 September 2039 and we can forget about it until then.

A united Ireland could have great benefits for the EU. For one thing, it would open up the possibility of Ireland leaving the CTA in the future and joining Schengen instead.
How does poor border control benefit the EU?

Besides, not that it's any of your business, I found out last year that I qualify for Irish citizenship through having a parent born in Northern Ireland.
Ahhh, tracing your roots. A popular past time amongst the culturally bereft descendants of colonialists.

It seems I may qualify for UK citizenship that way too, but the UK has shown great determination in making its citizenship as useless as possible over the past few years.

It is every bit as good as an Australian passport and significantly more utilitarian than a US passport.
https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php

Pray tell me, what is it you hope to do with an Irish passport, that could not be achieved with a British passport?

I have plenty of reason to want the British kicked out from where they don't belong.
The Northern Irish are British, you dumb ass.  ::)
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on May 31, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
No. The Scottish is different. They had a vote only 6 years ago. Supposedly once in a generation. You can't keep having referendums until you get the result you want. 25 years is a generation. In Parliament, set the date of the next referendum to be 18 September 2039 and we can forget about it until then.

At the risk of veering further off topic, that was before your people dragged them through the most pointless shake-up in Britain since 1066 and put a border between the Scots in Scotland and their Ulster Scots brethren. You have changed the situation, and they are entitled to voice their opinion on the new status quo.

A united Ireland could have great benefits for the EU. For one thing, it would open up the possibility of Ireland leaving the CTA in the future and joining Schengen instead.
How does poor border control benefit the EU?

Nice loaded question.

Besides, not that it's any of your business, I found out last year that I qualify for Irish citizenship through having a parent born in Northern Ireland.
Ahhh, tracing your roots. A popular past time amongst the culturally bereft descendants of colonialists.

I don't quite know how you got that from what I said, but whatever floats your boat.

It seems I may qualify for UK citizenship that way too, but the UK has shown great determination in making its citizenship as useless as possible over the past few years.

It is every bit as good as an Australian passport and significantly more utilitarian than a US passport.
https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php

And yet, significantly less utilitarian than it was 2 years ago.

Pray tell me, what is it you hope to do with an Irish passport, that could not be achieved with a British passport?

You... do know where I live, right? You know I am a resident of the EU, but not an EU citizen? Do you understand that that means I need to maintain a valid visa in order to not get deported and have limited access to public services? Do I really need to explain how EU citizenship would benefit me?

I have plenty of reason to want the British kicked out from where they don't belong.
The Northern Irish are British, you dumb ass.  ::)

Some of them identify that way, yes, just the same as some residents of the UK identify as Indian and hold Indian nationality. Are you saying you would support Indian rule in Britain?
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on May 31, 2021, 02:12:27 PM
At the risk of veering further off topic, that was before your people dragged them through the most pointless shake-up in Britain since 1066 and put a border between the Scots in Scotland and their Ulster Scots brethren. You have changed the situation, and they are entitled to voice their opinion on the new status quo.
There is no them and us. It is just us. we all had a vote on Brexit. We don't just shatter the nation to bits every time parts of it vote another way. Democracy means we agree to the majority vote and we live with it. Not pick up our ball and go home. Should the Shetland islands be independent because they voted Liberal Democrats last time around? Play that game and you end up a land of thousand villages ... each one more juicy than the last for any marauding Vikings. We have strength in unity. By themselves, Scotland would be picked apart by large trading blocks.

You... do know where I live, right? You know I am a resident of the EU, but not an EU citizen? Do you understand that that means I need to maintain a valid visa in order to not get deported and have limited access to public services? Do I really need to explain how EU citizenship would benefit me?
Why should we give a fuck what benefits you? You don't get a vote. And you aren't supposed to stay in Europe. You have a VISA because you are supposed to go home. That's the deal. You come on a temporary basis for education or work and once knowledge and skills have been exchanged ... you fuck off home. Why should you get access to public services? You've only been here 5 minutes. You haven't paid for them. Europe doesn't owe you a living. What a vile sense of entitlement. This is precisely why the UK voted out. We aren't there to provide welfare for any creature that washes up on our shores.

Some of them identify that way, yes, just the same as some residents of the UK identify as Indian and hold Indian nationality. Are you saying you would support Indian rule in Britain?
No no no. You don't get to self-identify your way out of your situation. We have British residents who may have an Indian heritage. But they are here because the state has identified them as British. This stupid notion you get to identify yourself is laughable. From the same nutcases that bring you preferred pronouns. If I identify as a dog, does that mean I can go about fucking other dogs. Would it be legal to fuck your dog in the park right in front of you? I mean, I'm just a dog ... that's how I identify. What if I identify as a little girl? Am I not entitled to a state education with all the other little girls, including gym class? What if I identify as your brother? Will I get a share of your inheritance when our parents die? The Northern Irish are British ... and that's how they are legally identified ... end of story.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Pete Svarrior on May 31, 2021, 02:22:14 PM
In retrospect I don't always make smart decisions, but I will defend to the death my right to keep on making stupid choices.
Ah, shit, I absolutely did not mean to suggest that you shouldn't make your choices. Just that perhaps past mistakes might help with future decisions.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on May 31, 2021, 02:29:19 PM
We have strength in unity.

Well, we did.

By themselves, Scotland would be picked apart by large trading blocks.

This is probably about as much Scotland discussion as is warranted in a thread about Ireland.

Why should we give a fuck what benefits you?

Well, for starters, you asked me...

And you aren't supposed to stay in Europe. You have a VISA because you are supposed to go home. That's the deal. You come on a temporary basis for education or work and once knowledge and skills have been exchanged ... you fuck off home.

If that's the deal, why is there a naturalisation process?

Why should you get access to public services? You've only been here 5 minutes. You haven't paid for them. Europe doesn't owe you a living. What a vile sense of entitlement.

I never said anything about whether I should get access to public services. I accepted the fact that I wouldn't be treated as a citizen when I moved here. But the answer to your question is, in part, that an Irish passport would allow me to access public services in the EU sooner than waiting until I can naturalise. Don't complain about the question you asked just because you don't like the answer.

This is precisely why the UK voted out. We aren't there to provide welfare for any creature that washes up on our shores.

I am quite happy to accept none of your tax money, don't you worry about that.

The Northern Irish are British ... and that's how they are legally identified ... end of story.

They are also legally identified, by the Irish government, as Irish. Perhaps there is a sequel?
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on May 31, 2021, 02:45:58 PM
They are also legally identified, by the Irish government, as Irish. Perhaps there is a sequel?
Oh, well then we legally identify the USA as a colony. We never gave them permission to leave. Please send taxes, America.  ::)
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on May 31, 2021, 02:54:12 PM
Oh, well then we legally identify the USA as a colony. We never gave them permission to leave. Please send taxes, America.  ::)

As you are no doubt aware, recognising a person as a national of your country is not at all the same thing as claiming jurisdiction over them, although some countries blur the lines somewhat. I'm assuming this means you have no sound arguments to make.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on May 31, 2021, 03:48:33 PM
The USA is no longer a colony because might is right. Hong Kong no longer belongs to the UK because might is right. Northern Ireland does still belong to the UK as does the Falklands. If Argentina had been stronger ... that would not be the case. We'll wait until the Republic of Ireland is capable of wrestling territories from us before we hand over Northern Ireland, thanks very much.

In the mean time, your support of sedition is not welcome. That is how we had The Troubles in the first place. Mind your own business.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Rama Set on May 31, 2021, 03:51:35 PM
It’s pretty peak Thork to tell people they should accept the results of a democratic process since that is the opposite of what he wanted during Brexit.

“The legally elected government of Britain made a decision I didn’t like and they sToLe My SoVeReIgNtY!!  Baaaaaaw!”
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on May 31, 2021, 03:57:33 PM
We'll wait until the Republic of Ireland is capable of wrestling territories from us before we hand over Northern Ireland, thanks very much.

Do you know what you're saying? Because I don't think you know what you're saying.

In the mean time, your support of sedition is not welcome.

I wasn't aware referenda qualified as sedition.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on May 31, 2021, 04:14:02 PM
I wasn't aware referenda qualified as sedition.
If you have a referendum without permission ... that's a crime.
https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2019/10/04/inenglish/1570178504_315132.html

Westminster hasn't given permission. You are advocating sedition.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on May 31, 2021, 04:29:10 PM
Westminster hasn't given permission. You are advocating sedition.

Did I, at any point, say "the Northern Irish should set up a referendum without following the legal process in the UK for one"?
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on May 31, 2021, 04:32:04 PM
How about Queensland leaves Australia? You know, if we want to see other people's nations chopped to bits. And the western territories, not really part of the rest of Aus. Tasmania is a separate island. Scope for a referendum there too.

In fact, plenty of scope for a new nation here ...
(https://external-preview.redd.it/S2Xr6ZNGcMTWlALAnt31Y_rOEDUYo0qqPUOkk4RtD_0.png?auto=webp&s=6d0f35b6e80d8b5e984742b65de3296e7305704d)

Give back the land you stole. Let them govern themselves.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on May 31, 2021, 04:49:26 PM
How about Queensland leaves Australia?
Good riddance.

You know, if we want to see other people's nations chopped to bits.
You mean like the time you chopped Ireland in half?

Give back the land you stole. Let them govern themselves.
I didn't steal anything, I would be quite happy for them to govern themselves, and Australia isn't the topic of this thread.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on May 31, 2021, 05:09:28 PM
You mean like the time you chopped Ireland in half?

That isn't what happened at all.

The Union of Great Britain and Ireland happened a long time ago and everyone was happy with it. Well almost everyone. Everyone who matters. Henry VIII was the first king of Ireland and he did a good job. Probably.

Anyway, in 1918 the Irish vote in their droves for Sinn Fein.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Irish_UK_election_1918.png/484px-Irish_UK_election_1918.png)

Being the polite and generally lovely people that we are in the UK, by 1921 we had let the rest of Ireland be an independent country. That's what they wanted. They got it.

But look how Northern Ireland voted. For unionist parties. So we said, Ok, you want to stay, you can stay. We gave absolutely everybody what they wanted. But the greedy nasty Irish wanted more. They wanted to rule over the northern Irish too, despite their not wanting to be Irish. And the Irish resorted to terrorism and the USA decided to fund that terrorism because Americans are fundamentally wicked.

So we never chopped Ireland in half. We left the half that wanted to leave leave, and let the half that wanted to stay stay. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Do you have a better suggestion as to what the British should have done?
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on May 31, 2021, 05:23:07 PM
So we never chopped Ireland in half. We left the half that wanted to leave leave, and let the half that wanted to stay stay.

That's weird. I could have sworn you said something just a bit earlier to the effect of

We don't just shatter the nation to bits every time parts of it vote another way. Democracy means we agree to the majority vote and we live with it.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on May 31, 2021, 06:08:05 PM
So we never chopped Ireland in half. We left the half that wanted to leave leave, and let the half that wanted to stay stay.

That's weird. I could have sworn you said something just a bit earlier to the effect of

We don't just shatter the nation to bits every time parts of it vote another way. Democracy means we agree to the majority vote and we live with it.


That's not like voting to leave the union. That was voting on a trade deal with the EU. If people want to leave, they can leave. But they can't vote over and over on it until the result changes. Have a vote, respect the vote. But having political differences of opinion is not grounds for leaving every single time it happens. That way madness lies.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on May 31, 2021, 06:18:16 PM
That's not like voting to leave the union. That was voting on a trade deal with the EU.

No, it was voting on EU membership. Do you actually understand what Brexit is yet?

If people want to leave, they can leave.

I assume you mean to say they can leave after they start a war of independence and you commit a few crimes against humanity to spite them for it.

But they can't vote over and over on it until the result changes. Have a vote, respect the vote. But having political differences of opinion is not grounds for leaving every single time it happens. That way madness lies.

Losing EU membership was one of the primary arguments against Scottish independence in the last referendum. It is not a "political difference of opinion", it is a radical change to the context of the question that was posed.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on May 31, 2021, 06:25:11 PM
That's not like voting to leave the union. That was voting on a trade deal with the EU.

No, it was voting on EU membership. Do you actually understand what Brexit is yet?
Yes, it is the worst trade deal in modern history. You hand over everything including your sovereignty, for the ability to trade with other nations who have been equally emasculated.

If people want to leave, they can leave.

I assume you mean to say they can leave after they start a war of independence and you commit a few crimes against humanity to spite them for it.
Honestly, we don't give a fuck about Northern Ireland. They chose to stay. We've been paying for them ever since. They contribute nothing.

But they can't vote over and over on it until the result changes. Have a vote, respect the vote. But having political differences of opinion is not grounds for leaving every single time it happens. That way madness lies.

Losing EU membership was one of the primary arguments against Scottish independence in the last referendum. It is not a "political difference of opinion", it is a radical change to the context of the question that was posed.
No, Brexit is just the cancellation of a trade deal. A bad trade deal. That is not grounds for sedition.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on May 31, 2021, 06:31:34 PM
Honestly, we don't give a fuck about Northern Ireland. They chose to stay. We've been paying for them ever since. They contribute nothing.

Yes, you keep very loudly proclaiming how hard you don't give a fuck.

No, Brexit is just the cancellation of a trade deal. A bad trade deal. That is not grounds for sedition.

Please stop calling the EU a "trade deal". That is not even remotely close to what it is, and I suspect you know that. You are only making yourself look ridiculous.

Tell me, what is the difference between parts of Ireland disagreeing on whether to remain part of the UK, and parts of the UK disagreeing on whether to remain part of the EU?
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on June 13, 2021, 03:42:55 PM
Boris Johnson continues to be all flash, no photo.

Quote from: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-57460077
But pushed further by reporters about the French president's alleged remarks, Mr Johnson said he and the rest of the government "make the point continuously that we are all part of one great indivisible United Kingdom".

Considering his government is the one who has divided the United Kingdom, this lip service from Boris is frankly more offensive than anything Macron said.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on June 13, 2021, 07:39:00 PM
Stop picking the wrong side. The French have demonstrated how absurd the EUs position is and how unreasonable their demands. Boris asked

"Do you think it would be reasonable to ask that sausages made in Toulouse could not be sold in Paris?" to which Macron replied "Its not the same thing. Northern Ireland is not part of the UK."

Of course, it is part of the UK. Failure to understand such basics is why it is impossible to have a reasonable deal with these idiots.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: stack on June 13, 2021, 07:49:44 PM
Stop picking the wrong side. The French have demonstrated how absurd the EUs position is and how unreasonable their demands. Boris asked

"Do you think it would be reasonable to ask that sausages made in Toulouse could not be sold in Paris?" to which Macron replied "Its not the same thing. Northern Ireland is not part of the UK."

Of course, it is part of the UK. Failure to understand such basics is why it is impossible to have a reasonable deal with these idiots.

Macron is half right. It's not the same thing, Toulouse & Paris are cities. So that was a pretty stupid thing for Boris to say. But what is Northern Ireland? Reading a bit about it, it's kind of confusing. In some instances it's referred to as a region of the UK, others a province and in others, a country. Albeit, all a part of the UK...I think.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on June 13, 2021, 08:43:08 PM
Ok, should Corsica be banned from selling sausages to Paris? That's the same thing. It is every bit as stupid and if Macron thinks the UK will just spilt up because he won't agree a trade deal he's in for a shock. It was unbelievably clumsy of him ... if not outright ignorant.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1449330/emmanuel-macron-brexit-news-latest-g7-summit-northern-ireland-protocol

Also ... question ... the G7.

1. Boris Johnson
2. Macron
3. Merkel
4. Trudeau
5. Biden
6. Mario Draghi
7. Suga Yoshihide

What is Ursula Von Der Leyen doing there? The EU is not part of the G7. Fuck off home you meddling cunt.  >o<

Either the EU is part of the G7 in which case send Macron, Merkel and Draghi home, or the EU is not part of the G7 and Von Der Leyen is not welcome. The French, Germans and Italians should not have their handler there putting pressure on issues using the leverage of nations who are NOT part of the G7. The EU is full of complete wankers.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: stack on June 14, 2021, 05:28:18 AM
Ok, should Corsica be banned from selling sausages to Paris? That's the same thing. It is every bit as stupid and if Macron thinks the UK will just spilt up because he won't agree a trade deal he's in for a shock. It was unbelievably clumsy of him ... if not outright ignorant.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1449330/emmanuel-macron-brexit-news-latest-g7-summit-northern-ireland-protocol

Also ... question ... the G7.

1. Boris Johnson
2. Macron
3. Merkel
4. Trudeau
5. Biden
6. Mario Draghi
7. Suga Yoshihide

What is Ursula Von Der Leyen doing there? The EU is not part of the G7. Fuck off home you meddling cunt.  >o<

Either the EU is part of the G7 in which case send Macron, Merkel and Draghi home, or the EU is not part of the G7 and Von Der Leyen is not welcome. The French, Germans and Italians should not have their handler there putting pressure on issues using the leverage of nations who are NOT part of the G7. The EU is full of complete wankers.

I'd say clumsy for both Boris and Macron. They both sound pretty daft.

Perhaps they should just change the moniker to G8.

It's all pretty murky. I mean Canada is a country, represented by Trudeau, but it is still a part of the British Commonwealth, whatever that means. Since a big part of the G7 is about trade, it makes sense that Canada is there and not just represented by Boris as they as a trade entity are very important. Same goes for the EU - Very important to all things trade across Europe and abroad. So yeah, the EU should have representation just as Canada does.
From an American perspective the EU has just as much importance as the UK does. I say welcome the EU into the forum.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on June 14, 2021, 10:50:12 AM
Well ... controversial but I have no idea what Trudeau is doing there either. Surely China get a seat at the table before a pisspot province in the Arctic circle? You want to tackle climate change ... why bother with Canada? Surely you bring in China ... oh, and India for that matter. On that note, Draghi should probably pack up his shit and go home too.

And no, the EU should not have representation ... or if it does, you don't give Germany, France and Italy representation as they are already being represented by the EU. The French shouldn't have 2 seats at the same table for example. EU or France ... not both.

Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on June 14, 2021, 11:13:40 AM
Stop picking the wrong side.

What happened to not being interested in this thread? I'm not going to let you waste any more of my time until you answer my previous question, otherwise you're just going to vanish again next time the discussion gets too uncomfortable for you.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on June 14, 2021, 11:15:20 AM
British trade and the G7 I am interested in. Northern Ireland ... don't care. You changed the subject. You made the thread interesting again.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on June 14, 2021, 11:17:17 AM
British trade and the G7 I am interested in. Northern Ireland ... don't care. You changed the subject. You made the thread interesting again.

You're the one who is veering off topic, which I would like you to stop doing. I was talking about Boris's comments on Northern Ireland specifically. You can read the thread title if that confuses you.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on June 15, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
The Tánaiste has an interesting proposal.

Quote from: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/irish-unity-should-be-fine-gaels-mission-leo-varadkar-tells-party-40544245.html
“Our vision should be different. It should be one that has the best chance of carrying the greatest number of people with us, North and South.

“It should appeal in particular to that middle ground I spoke about earlier, to gain the support of people who identify as both British and Irish.

“So, unification must not be the annexation of Northern Ireland.

“It means something more, a new state designed together, a new constitution and one that reflects the diversity of a bi-national or multi-national state in which almost a million people are British.

“Like the New South Africa, a rainbow nation, not just orange and green.”

I have some reservations — the comparison to South Africa seems ill thought out, and the orange in "orange and green" represents the British in Ireland, so that is already a symbol of this kind of unity — but I can get behind the point he's trying to make. Hopefully it's not just hot air like Boris's speeches.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on July 09, 2021, 04:40:26 AM
Mary Lou McDonald, president of Sinn Féin, spoke on this topic recently.

Quote from: https://www.derryjournal.com/news/uk-news/irish-unity-referendum-within-a-decade-sinn-fein-president-mary-lou-mcdonald-at-derry-commemoration-3290196
Outlining her party’s political hopes for the future, the Sinn Féin president said that the party wants “an Ireland built on the principles of equality, fairness and justice. An Ireland, free from division, inequality and injustice. An Ireland in which ordinary workers and families have decent housing, good healthcare and a fair economy that works for them”.

She added: “I firmly believe that within this decade the people will have the opportunity to freely choose new constitutional and political arrangements on this island, as underpinned by the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement. We will achieve the referendum on unity, and we can win it.

“This is an exciting time to be an Irish Republican. But opportunity only becomes reality if it is seized. We all have a part to play in getting there. We need to continue to build the party and bring more and more young people into our ranks. We need to talk and listen and learn,” she said.

Sinn Féin recently became the largest party in Stormont (https://www.politico.eu/article/sinn-fein-becomes-largest-party-in-northern-ireland-assembly-brexit/), now that the DUP is disintegrating.

The times, they are a-changin'.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on July 13, 2021, 05:29:02 PM
The Irish Echo makes a solid case for scheduling a referendum right away. To quote their concluding statement:

Quote from: https://www.irishecho.com/2021/07/a-date-must-be-set-for-an-irish-border-poll/
The denial of a democratic vote of the people is the real threat to the GFA, not the posturing of illegal, criminal loyalist gangs which prey on their own communities. A date for a referendum needs to be set now, and a timetable established for adequate preparation and public discussion to take place beforehand.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on July 13, 2021, 06:02:36 PM
What is your obsession with breaking up the United Kingdom? You want Northern Ireland to leave. You want Scotland to leave. I presume you'd like Wales to leave. Why are you so threatened by us?
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on July 13, 2021, 06:08:05 PM
What is your obsession with breaking up the United Kingdom? You want Northern Ireland to leave.
I want Northern Ireland to leave because, as someone with Irish heritage myself, I care about the welfare and economic development of Ireland. The British occupation in the north is not presently working in that interest.

You want Scotland to leave.
I have said no such thing.

I presume you'd like Wales to leave.
I cannot be held accountable to your presumptions.

Why are you so threatened by us?
I could equally well ask you the same thing. Always remember, you chose to leave the EU, we didn't push you out.
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: Dr David Thork on July 13, 2021, 06:21:05 PM
I want Northern Ireland to leave because, as someone with Irish heritage myself, I care about the welfare and economic development of Ireland.
The Northern Irish aren't Irish. They are British. They were asked if they wanted to be Irish and they voted to remain British anyway.

Always remember, you chose to leave the EU, we didn't push you out.
And again, we voted to leave the EU.

Why do you hate democracy so much?
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on July 13, 2021, 06:37:15 PM
The Northern Irish aren't Irish. They are British. They were asked if they wanted to be Irish and they voted to remain British anyway.
You know perfectly well that that is an oversimplification based on a half-century-old referendum that most of the Irish in Northern Ireland boycotted because it pre-dated the Good Friday Agreement. Why do you object to asking them again in light of the events of the past five decades?

Always remember, you chose to leave the EU, we didn't push you out.
And again, we voted to leave the EU.
Yes, that's what I said. So why are you so threatened by us?

Why do you hate democracy so much?
Are you really asking me that in a thread I created to advocate for a referendum?
Title: Re: Irish reunification
Post by: xasop on September 16, 2021, 08:53:54 AM
Let's compare and contrast how the UK is treating Northern Ireland with how the EU treats the Republic.

Northern Irish farmers can no longer take their cattle to Britain for sale, because they can't bring them back if they don't find buyers.

Quote from: https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/ni-brexit-protocol-northern-irish-cattle-can-travel-to-shows-in-great-britain-but-cannot-come-back-afterwards-says-ulster-farmers-union-3384655
The union’s deputy president David Brown gave evidence to the Stormont finance committee yesterday on the headaches caused by new rules which hamper the movement of goods (in this case animals) from Great Britain to Northern Ireland.

He said for example that when it comes to pedigree cattle, many Ulster breeders traditionally travel to big Welsh, Scottish or English shows to exhibit livestock.

But the new rules mean “any animals coming from Great Britain to Northern Ireland would have to have a six month residence period”.

Mr Brown (a cattle farmer from Fermanagh) explained exactly what this means on the ground.

At Stirling in Scotland in 2018, there were 109 bulls at the spring sale from 43 exhibitors.

In 2019, the number was 120, from 37 exhibitors.

In 2020 the sale was cancelled due to Covid.

But in 2021 the figure was four bulls, from three exhibitors.

Meanwhile, in Strasbourg...

Quote from: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/brexit/european-parliament-approves-over-1bn-in-brexit-subsidies-for-ireland-1.4675158
The European Parliament approved over €1 billion in subsidies for Ireland to help manage the economic impact of Brexit on Wednesday.

Ireland is by far the biggest beneficiary of the so-called Brexit Adjustment Reserve, a pot of €5.34 billion set aside by the EU for the countries hardest hit by the disruption caused by the departure of the United Kingdom.

Fine Gael MEP for Midlands North West Colm Markey described the funds as “hugely welcome” and demonstrating “a high degree of EU solidarity with Ireland”.

The fund was approved with an overwhelming vote of 652 votes in favour versus 32 against.

When will the DUP realise they're better off with Brussels than with Westminster?