Southern Ocean Circumnavigation
« on: February 10, 2018, 05:37:52 PM »
Good Day,
I'm hoping that someone might be able to point me to an intelligent, conclusive discussion, here or elsewhere, that addresses the drastically shorter distance required to circumnavigate the Southern Ocean (along the Ice Wall) than is predicted by the FE map? Or even sailing between two points such as the Southern extremes of the South American and African continents?

Thanks
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 06:07:47 PM by spoonbow »
Spherical Earth makes sense to me.
Educate me with sound, repeatable science and observations.

Offline retlaw

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Re: Southern Ocean Circumnavigation
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2018, 12:28:30 AM »
Good Day,
I'm hoping that someone might be able to point me to an intelligent, conclusive discussion, here or elsewhere, that addresses the drastically shorter distance required to circumnavigate the Southern Ocean (along the Ice Wall) than is predicted by the FE map? Or even sailing between two points such as the Southern extremes of the South American and African continents?

Thanks

The inner circle Arctic is mush smaller then the outer circle Antarctic.
Why do around the world yacht races circle Antarctica and not the Arctic?

Re: Southern Ocean Circumnavigation
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2018, 07:26:28 AM »
Because there is no route North of the equator that isn't subject to ice?

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Southern Ocean Circumnavigation
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2018, 09:10:12 AM »
The inner circle Arctic is mush smaller then the outer circle Antarctic.

Could you specify what these are, please?

Why do around the world yacht races circle Antarctica and not the Arctic?

Because there's no viable route around the Arctic due to the land masses of Europe, Scandinavia, Russia, Canada, etc. There's clear seas in the Antarctic. Less land.
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Offline retlaw

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Re: Southern Ocean Circumnavigation
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2018, 05:09:08 PM »
Because there is no route North of the equator that isn't subject to ice?

I see a route ice free on google earth between South America and Africa up through Greenland over Russia and down to  around Antarctica back to South America.

Google earth shows me that there is no ice on the north pole.
But you say its covered in ice.
So is google earth photo shopping out the ice?

Re: Southern Ocean Circumnavigation
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2018, 07:41:24 AM »
Google Earth is not a photograph, it's a 3d model with some photographs used as texture. You will also notice that Google Earth shows no clouds anywhere, and that is clearly not reality.

Most people when considering circumnavigation want to go east-West, but over the pole has been done.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transglobe_Expedition


Offline retlaw

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Re: Southern Ocean Circumnavigation
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2018, 05:37:21 PM »
Google Earth is not a photograph, it's a 3d model with some photographs used as texture. You will also notice that Google Earth shows no clouds anywhere, and that is clearly not reality.

Most people when considering circumnavigation want to go east-West, but over the pole has been done.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transglobe_Expedition

Yes I know about overlaying on maps. Its done all the time in map making. Google earth has to do the same thing other wise its all snow and clouds. That is perfecting logical.

But the Arctic ocean is never free from ice like Greenland and Antarctica yet they portray it as such which in itself is very odd.

Sir Ranulph Fiennes and Charles R. Burton trip needs more looking into.
I just looked at the route and something stuck me right away that is unusual.

They left Capetown South Africa on Dec 1979 and got to the south pole exactly one year latter Dec 17, 1980.

They were in Antarctica between January 1979 and April 1981, they traveled across the Antarctic via the South Pole on skidoo, making the fastest crossing of the continent.

Here is my issue. They had to spend a winter on Antarctic. It took them 12 months leaving in the middle of the summer and then one year later arriving at the south pole.
Then they got to Auckland in March 1981. Three months to get out almost the same distance as it was getting in.
12 months getting in and 3 months getting out while spending a winter on the Ice.

Most research buildings are on the coast with USA claiming they got one at the pole itself,
Amundsen–Scott Station.
We know from the claimed dates that the party didn't winter there.
Where did they spend it then?

You would have had to have a building with energy other wise you would die.
They claimed they only used a plane for support flying beside them but how can a plane fly in those temperature? We are told airplanes don't fly over Antarctica because its to cold and the fuel would freeze.
You can't just park a plane on the ice in those temperatures and then fire it back up a season later and fly away.
The expansion of the frozen liquids would rupture lines and tanks of liquid.

So are they claiming they used a skidoo and traveled for 15 months right through a Antarctica winter?

Wiki claims the coldest temperature recorded in Antarctica was -89.6°C at Vostok station in 1983. The average winter temperature at the South Pole is about -49°C. Your home freezer is only about -15°C. The wind chill factor means that it can feel much colder.

As i mentioned this claim needs to be look into much deeper then this.

Re: Southern Ocean Circumnavigation
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2018, 10:41:20 PM »
Google Earth is not a photograph, it's a 3d model with some photographs used as texture. You will also notice that Google Earth shows no clouds anywhere, and that is clearly not reality.

Most people when considering circumnavigation want to go east-West, but over the pole has been done.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transglobe_Expedition

Yes I know about overlaying on maps. Its done all the time in map making. Google earth has to do the same thing other wise its all snow and clouds. That is perfecting logical.

But the Arctic ocean is never free from ice like Greenland and Antarctica yet they portray it as such which in itself is very odd.


When are Greenland and Antarctica free of ice? The Arctic ocean sea ice varies from season to season and year to year, but the change in glaciers on land in Antarctica and Greenland is much more gradual. Google Earth also shows water where the ice shelves are in Antarctica.

Quote

Sir Ranulph Fiennes and Charles R. Burton trip needs more looking into.
I just looked at the route and something stuck me right away that is unusual.

They left Capetown South Africa on Dec 1979 and got to the south pole exactly one year latter Dec 17, 1980.

They were in Antarctica between January 1979 and April 1981, they traveled across the Antarctic via the South Pole on skidoo, making the fastest crossing of the continent.

Here is my issue. They had to spend a winter on Antarctic. It took them 12 months leaving in the middle of the summer and then one year later arriving at the south pole.
Then they got to Auckland in March 1981. Three months to get out almost the same distance as it was getting in.
12 months getting in and 3 months getting out while spending a winter on the Ice.

Most research buildings are on the coast with USA claiming they got one at the pole itself,
Amundsen–Scott Station.
We know from the claimed dates that the party didn't winter there.
Where did they spend it then?

You would have had to have a building with energy other wise you would die.
They claimed they only used a plane for support flying beside them but how can a plane fly in those temperature? We are told airplanes don't fly over Antarctica because its to cold and the fuel would freeze.
You can't just park a plane on the ice in those temperatures and then fire it back up a season later and fly away.
The expansion of the frozen liquids would rupture lines and tanks of liquid.

So are they claiming they used a skidoo and traveled for 15 months right through a Antarctica winter?

Wiki claims the coldest temperature recorded in Antarctica was -89.6°C at Vostok station in 1983. The average winter temperature at the South Pole is about -49°C. Your home freezer is only about -15°C. The wind chill factor means that it can feel much colder.

As i mentioned this claim needs to be look into much deeper then this.

They didn't winter at the South Pole, they wintered on Antarctica, something people have been able to do for over a hundred years (see the Endurance expedition for example.)

You can read about why they wintered there:
http://transglobe-expedition.org/antarctica/
 Excerpt:
Quote
In order to make the best use of the limited summer period for crossing Antarctica, it was decided that this first summer should only be used to get to Antarctica by ship and for the base camps to be erected and all preparations made for a crossing the following summer. Thus a full season could be used to cross this vast continent.

They go on to explain where the over winter base was built.

Offline retlaw

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Re: Southern Ocean Circumnavigation
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2018, 07:38:05 PM »
Thanks for the link to that expedition. I will read it.

"When are Greenland and Antarctica free of ice? The Arctic ocean sea ice varies from season to season and year to year, but the change in glaciers on land in Antarctica and Greenland is much more gradual. Google Earth also shows water where the ice shelves are in Antarctica."

Typing fast sometimes mixes up my words, sorry about that.
What I meant to say is that all three are covered in ice yet they only show the north pole as being ice free.
That is what I find unusual.