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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2021, 07:50:33 PM »
You definitely get a notification when someone changes a post while you are responding.
That should be impossible. How did you determine that it's someone changing a post rather than deleting and recreating? We're gonna need to find a way to reproduce this before we can fix it.

When I say notification I mean the red text that says a post has been changed while I was writing mine. Not sure if that is confusing.
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Offline Clyde Frog

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2021, 08:43:24 PM »
I'm reasonably sure that those warnings are only shown in the event of new posts, not edited posts. It's entirely possible the staff here have modified the code enough where I'm mistaken, but from SMF's language packs, the warning messages are as follows, and every single one of them references a new post rather than an edited post:
Code: [Select]
$txt['error_new_reply'] = 'Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.';
$txt['error_new_replies'] = 'Warning - while you were typing %1$d new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.';
$txt['error_new_reply_reading'] = 'Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.';
$txt['error_new_replies_reading'] = 'Warning - while you were reading %1$d new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.';

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Offline stack

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2021, 10:07:43 PM »
The way I've seen it is kinda how I described it previously.

If you're typing a response and hit Post or Preview and a brand new post has been added in the interim, you get:
'Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.'

If you're typing a response and hit Post or Preview and someone has edited their post in the interim, you get:
'Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.'

Same thing, no distinction between the two scenarios.



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Offline Clyde Frog

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2021, 12:22:26 AM »
The way I've seen it is kinda how I described it previously.

If you're typing a response and hit Post or Preview and a brand new post has been added in the interim, you get:
'Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.'

If you're typing a response and hit Post or Preview and someone has edited their post in the interim, you get:
'Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.'

Same thing, no distinction between the two scenarios.

I guess that's the question - how can you tell the post was edited, versus whether it was deleted and an "edited" version was just posted as a new post? I'm trying to wrap my head around this because I've got an SMF instance of my own that, if this is a bug to track down, I want to go track it down. But I also don't want to embark on a wild goose chase.

Edit to clarify, and even more explicitly state: this is an actual question that I have, I'm not presupposing an answer. I'd love to actually catch this happening at a site where I can witness the issue real time, and then also be able to check to see if a post was just deleted and then basically copy-pasta'd into a "new" post, or if an actual bona fide edit is really causing this to happen.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 12:49:06 AM by Clyde Frog »

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2021, 01:28:49 AM »
The way I've seen it is kinda how I described it previously.

If you're typing a response and hit Post or Preview and a brand new post has been added in the interim, you get:
'Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.'

If you're typing a response and hit Post or Preview and someone has edited their post in the interim, you get:
'Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.'

Same thing, no distinction between the two scenarios.

I guess that's the question - how can you tell the post was edited, versus whether it was deleted and an "edited" version was just posted as a new post? I'm trying to wrap my head around this because I've got an SMF instance of my own that, if this is a bug to track down, I want to go track it down. But I also don't want to embark on a wild goose chase.

Edit to clarify, and even more explicitly state: this is an actual question that I have, I'm not presupposing an answer. I'd love to actually catch this happening at a site where I can witness the issue real time, and then also be able to check to see if a post was just deleted and then basically copy-pasta'd into a "new" post, or if an actual bona fide edit is really causing this to happen.

After a post is edited it says so at the bottom of the post.
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Offline Clyde Frog

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2021, 02:04:44 AM »
The way I've seen it is kinda how I described it previously.

If you're typing a response and hit Post or Preview and a brand new post has been added in the interim, you get:
'Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.'

If you're typing a response and hit Post or Preview and someone has edited their post in the interim, you get:
'Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.'

Same thing, no distinction between the two scenarios.

I guess that's the question - how can you tell the post was edited, versus whether it was deleted and an "edited" version was just posted as a new post? I'm trying to wrap my head around this because I've got an SMF instance of my own that, if this is a bug to track down, I want to go track it down. But I also don't want to embark on a wild goose chase.

Edit to clarify, and even more explicitly state: this is an actual question that I have, I'm not presupposing an answer. I'd love to actually catch this happening at a site where I can witness the issue real time, and then also be able to check to see if a post was just deleted and then basically copy-pasta'd into a "new" post, or if an actual bona fide edit is really causing this to happen.

After a post is edited it says so at the bottom of the post.
Sometimes. But that's tangential.

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Offline stack

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2021, 04:43:53 AM »
The way I've seen it is kinda how I described it previously.

If you're typing a response and hit Post or Preview and a brand new post has been added in the interim, you get:
'Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.'

If you're typing a response and hit Post or Preview and someone has edited their post in the interim, you get:
'Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.'

Same thing, no distinction between the two scenarios.

I guess that's the question - how can you tell the post was edited, versus whether it was deleted and an "edited" version was just posted as a new post? I'm trying to wrap my head around this because I've got an SMF instance of my own that, if this is a bug to track down, I want to go track it down. But I also don't want to embark on a wild goose chase.

Edit to clarify, and even more explicitly state: this is an actual question that I have, I'm not presupposing an answer. I'd love to actually catch this happening at a site where I can witness the issue real time, and then also be able to check to see if a post was just deleted and then basically copy-pasta'd into a "new" post, or if an actual bona fide edit is really causing this to happen.

After a post is edited it says so at the bottom of the post.
Sometimes. But that's tangential.

If you want we can test it out on your site. Just set up a time and you and I can DM back and forth, you tell me when you post and I can run through the different scenarios with you in real time with you editing, reposting, etc.

There might be a difference between here and the other site and if so, I may have confused the functionality differences between the two. It would be interesting to find out. Even though it's just really an annoyance I do think, in the minimum interest in terms of user flow and at a maximum of cutting down on sort of egregious over-editing that can dramatically alter the trajectory of another response, I think it's worth examining. And perhaps adjusting some things accordingly.

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2021, 09:12:45 AM »
Thank you to everyone chimed in. This gives us a fair bit of information to work with. I still suspect that this doesn't happen on edits, and that it's just a few people gaming the forum functionality to avoid the "edited" footer. Rama's description matches Tom's behaviour - he edits posts, deletes and reposts, edits, deletes and reposts, etc. If you catch him in the middle of that cycle, everything adds up.

Nonetheless, we now know what is claimed and we can see if we can reproduce it. If we can't, we can still ban the behaviour described above (both because it's shitty and because it'll help us rule that option out).

I'm very sorry I haven't done anything about the 2 feature requests currently active in S&C. Today is the last day of term at work, so after a quick recovery period this weekend, I should have a bit more time to do some investigatin'
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 09:15:45 AM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2021, 09:46:38 AM »
If we can't, we can still ban the behaviour described above (both because it's shitty and because it'll help us rule that option out).

No you can't. If Tom wants to edit his posts after the fact ... he can. I sometimes do the same. Maybe I think of something 5 mins later and want to add it. You can quote Tom at any point and if you quote and respond to an earlier version of the post ... welp that's tough on Tom for not getting his shit together up front. But Tom should not be on the end of a ban for having the temerity to improve his own posts.
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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM »
If we can't, we can still ban the behaviour described above (both because it's shitty and because it'll help us rule that option out).

No you can't. If Tom wants to edit his posts after the fact ... he can. I sometimes do the same. Maybe I think of something 5 mins later and want to add it.

... at which point, it's easy to make it clear to even the casual reader that it's an edit. Such as, below the original text;

EDIT - (the addition or correction you want to make)
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2021, 11:17:17 AM »
If we can't, we can still ban the behaviour described above (both because it's shitty and because it'll help us rule that option out).

No you can't. If Tom wants to edit his posts after the fact ... he can. I sometimes do the same. Maybe I think of something 5 mins later and want to add it.

... at which point, it's easy to make it clear to even the casual reader that it's an edit. Such as, below the original text;

EDIT - (the addition or correction you want to make)

No one is being paid to make posts. We are under no duty to add a version history to them. Read it and then respond or ignore it. Choice is yours.
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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2021, 11:23:03 AM »
If we can't, we can still ban the behaviour described above (both because it's shitty and because it'll help us rule that option out).

No you can't. If Tom wants to edit his posts after the fact ... he can. I sometimes do the same. Maybe I think of something 5 mins later and want to add it.

... at which point, it's easy to make it clear to even the casual reader that it's an edit. Such as, below the original text;

EDIT - (the addition or correction you want to make)

No one is being paid to make posts. We are under no duty to add a version history to them. Read it and then respond or ignore it. Choice is yours.

When poster make multiple edits, sometimes with literally no change, it becomes behavior that the poster should take responsibility for. Open up a text doc and type it all up there first then ctrl+c->ctrl+v. It’s basic etiquette along the lines of a few other rules you don’t care about. Don’t pretend this is controversial.

EDIT: My point was not to go after the occasional ninja edit, but serial behavior.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 11:32:53 AM by Rama Set »
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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2021, 12:07:39 PM »
You definitely get a notification when someone changes a post while you are responding.
That should be impossible. How did you determine that it's someone changing a post rather than deleting and recreating? We're gonna need to find a way to reproduce this before we can fix it.

When I say notification I mean the red text that says a post has been changed while I was writing mine. Not sure if that is confusing.
I don't think you get a message stating a post has been changed while you are writing yours.

I believe you get a red message stating a new message has been posted.

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2021, 12:17:04 PM »
You definitely get a notification when someone changes a post while you are responding.
That should be impossible. How did you determine that it's someone changing a post rather than deleting and recreating? We're gonna need to find a way to reproduce this before we can fix it.

When I say notification I mean the red text that says a post has been changed while I was writing mine. Not sure if that is confusing.
I don't think you get a message stating a post has been changed while you are writing yours.

I believe you get a red message stating a new message has been posted.

Yeah, what I thought was editing was likely just deleting and reposting then.
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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2021, 12:27:26 PM »
It’s basic etiquette along the lines of a few other rules you don’t care about.
The difference between our two literary abilities is a chasm. I don't need to learn any lessons about how to post from you. I'm Thork. You are nobody.


EDIT: My point was not to go after the occasional ninja edit, but serial behavior.
And my point is that it is Tom's prerogative to use this forum in a manner in which he gets the most enjoyment. Not to post in the way you instruct him to. Tom's edit/re-edit is what makes Tom ... Tom. He's been doing it for over ten years to my knowledge. He'll be doing it long after you have stopped posting here. It forms part of his style. His posts are an evolution ... not a mind dump. He considers his posts and adds and changes them to get his message across the way he would like. You must also remember he is a flat earther. He needs to choose his words carefully or a dozen RE zealots will pounce on him and tear his post apart because he misspoke. A little edit corrects that.

You are making a problem from nothing. Leave Tom alone. If you can't get along, you play your ball games on the other side of the playground.
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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2021, 12:32:25 PM »
Hey drama queen, I never told Tom to do anything. I expressed a concern and even said in my OP that if I was being too sensitive I could learn to live with it. Turns out people that matter agreed with me.

Maybe they will agree it’s locky-locky time?

Let’s find out!
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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2021, 12:42:20 PM »
if I was being too sensitive I could learn to live with it.
Learn to live with it. You are being too sensitive.
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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2021, 12:52:30 PM »
if I was being too sensitive I could learn to live with it.
Learn to live with it. You are being too sensitive.

No more sensitive than you and your issue with DMs.
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Offline stack

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2021, 07:56:23 PM »
if I was being too sensitive I could learn to live with it.
Learn to live with it. You are being too sensitive.

Maybe just like you should learn to live with getting DM's from noobs and just delete them instead asking the system to do something about it for you?

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2021, 08:32:25 AM »
if I was being too sensitive I could learn to live with it.
Learn to live with it. You are being too sensitive.

Maybe just like you should learn to live with getting DM's from noobs and just delete them instead asking the system to do something about it for you?

My suggestion improves the user experience for existing users.

This awful suggestion is just yet another 'Let's get Tom' thread.
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