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Messages - douglips

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381
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Where do the rockets go?
« on: October 15, 2017, 06:02:52 PM »
J-man, I'm trying, but when I search for "astronauts faking earth out porthole" I get nothing. Please please please help me if you think my mortal soul is worth saving. If you're just here to taunt me on my slow ride straight to hell, well, that's not very charitable of you.

382
Flat Earth Theory / Re: High tide(s)
« on: October 15, 2017, 05:50:34 AM »
Tides are due to the Geodesic deviation by the moon and sun. Think of it this way, you got aether (a fabric of space-time), the moon (and sun) warps it (because of its energy content), any object or fluid it moves by will be affected, it will follow that warp. The water will remain at it's level but when the aether it is in becomes more non-homogeneous (distorted, not equal across like flat undistorted aether), it's going to follow that aether warp as straight.

'Celestial Gravitation" is not the correct term for it since it's not forcing water away from its level, but rather, the aether it is in is non-homogeneous, so therefore the straightest path of water is non-homogeneous (equating to what we perceive as a rise or a bulge in water).

Two tides a day are because the water is warped away from a particular part of Earth and other water is left behind, having two high tides.

I've heard of other explanations for tides in the context of Flat Earth models that may not include the moon and sun, but I feel there is good evidence that the moon contributes greatly to tides.

It sounds to me like you are just using different terminology for the newtonian model of tides. I'm not sure what I could disagree with here, except, is there a way to quantify the tides using your aether idea? Newton's laws give you tidal forces quite accurately - as in, Newton calculated these exact numbers in his Principia.

383
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Best Eric Dubay videos
« on: October 15, 2017, 05:43:21 AM »
OK, now if you look at any of these videos and see something that you think is interesting, I want you to google for just 2 minutes and see if you can find easily some evidence to refute the claim.

Seriously, non-stop flights for nearly all of the things he claims don't have non-stop flights. Seriously.

384
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Best Eric Dubay videos
« on: October 15, 2017, 05:42:09 AM »
OK, so the star trails stuff is also pretty silly.

24:44 Asserts that the galaxy is moving at 670 million mph. No sources given.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background#CMBR_dipole_anisotropy
The milky way is moving at 627 km/s, which is only 1.4 million mph, so he's off by 2 orders of magnitude

Asserted: Sundials are still accurate after centuries. What? Of course they are. Noon is noon, how could it be anything else?

Asserted: Star charts are all the same throughout history.
This is only because history is so short and human lives are so short.
Stars that are closer to earth have easily observable proper motion, for example Barnard's star:
http://astronomer.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Barnard_199_-to_2007.jpg

It's easy to do the math to show that even at stellar speeds, the distances in the galaxy are so vast that constellations evolve very very slowly.
You need to consider timescales about 100 times longer than humans have been painting on cave walls: https://www.wired.com/2015/03/gifs-show-constellations-transforming-150000-years/

26:16 - he asks how a star that is super far away could stay still given all the motion. The farther away something is, the LESS its apparent motion. How is this not obvious to him?

26:30 - claims without any support that Polaris is visble from as far south as 20 degrees south latitude. This is simply not true.
Here are some pictures of star trails taken from Ecuador, 0 degree latitude. We know Polaris is right at the middle of the swirly part to the north, which is exactly on the horizon.
Find me a single picture of Polaris taken from the southern hemisphere.
http://sguisard.astrosurf.com/Pagim/From_pole_to_pole.html

27:00 claims Ursa Major "right next to polaris" is visible from the southern hemisphere, shows a picture of Ursa Major from the NOrthern Hemisphere.
Of COURSE Ursa Major is visible from the southern hemisphere - it only goes to about 63 degrees north "celestial latitude" if you want to think of it that way, so you'd see it.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/North_Hemisphere.png

This also means that "right next to Polaris" is like 27 degrees away. That's HUGE!

He claims Ursa Major is visible to 30 degrees south, and since it's close to 30 degrees away from Polaris this puts the lie to the notion that Polaris is visible at all.

27:10 Vulpecula can be seen down to 55 degrees south! Well, yeah, it's only at 25 degrees north or so. The sky is 180 degrees across, if your latitude is within roughly 90 degrees of a star you can see it if the time of year is right.

27:15 "Taurus, Pisces and Leo" are all signs of the zodiac. These are zodiacal signs because the ecliptic (where the sun goes) passes through them. This means that they are all within 23 degrees of the celestial equator.

All of this seems to be claiming that something in one celestial hemisphere isn't visible from the other, but guess what: this would be like claiming the sun should disappear for the entire northern hemisphere for the winter. This is just crazy.

385
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Best Eric Dubay videos
« on: October 15, 2017, 05:04:49 AM »
This crap that is super easily googleable is sad. When the guy says "Flights from X to Y all land in Z", you can actually just google "flights from X to Y" and often find non-stops. Every single example he gives is easily refutable:

22:39 - Santiago to Johannesburg, claims that instead of flying direct every flight refuels north of the equator in senegal.
South African has flights from Johannesburg to Sao Paolo Brazil non-stop, 10 hours or so (see below). You can then connect to Santiago.
Again, ask yourself how many people want to make this trip and if a non-stop all the way to Santiago makes sense.

23:19 calls out the exact Jo'burg to Sao Paolo flight which does exist, South African 222
https://www.google.com/search?q=south+african+airways+flight+222
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SAA222
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SAA222/history/20171014/0900Z/FAOR/SBGR

23:38 Santiago to Sydney. Qantas flys this non-stop, Qantas 28
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA28
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA28/history/20171013/1630Z/SCEL/YSSY
14 hours or so, just as predicted

SO FAR EVERYTHING THIS GUY OBJECTED TO ACTUALLY REINFORCES ROUND EARTH.
He is just DELIBERATELY ignoring easily found flights, or perhaps charitably when this video was made the flights didn't exist. But they do now.

386
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Best Eric Dubay videos
« on: October 15, 2017, 04:50:35 AM »
Here's the flight tracker link for South African 280: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SAA280

387
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Best Eric Dubay videos
« on: October 15, 2017, 04:48:20 AM »
The flights from Johannesburg to Perth:
https://www.google.com/search?q=south+african+airways+flight+280&oq=south+african+airways+flight+280&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.4488j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
9 hours or so non-stop. Totally debunks the section on flight times.

It's clear that he chose a route with little service and looked at flights that stopped part way. If you run an airline and you don't have enough demand to go nonstop Jo'burg to Perth, you stop in Malaysia or somewhere. But when you do go non-stop, no freaking problem.


388
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Where do the rockets go?
« on: October 15, 2017, 12:06:27 AM »
When did NASA get caught faking stuff?

389
Yes, that diagram is relevant. It conflicts with observations that degrees of longitude are the same distance apart at a given latitude such as on the equator, or in the north-south case that degrees of latitude are the same distance apart everywhere.

In order to do the experiment you would have to be able to measure distances accurately. It appears that the only acceptable options for Flat Earth theorists to measure such distances is to be able to drive or walk the distance, so you'd need to pick somewhere with long distances over land, and it would be helpful to pick somewhere that the sun goes directly overhead. You would then coordinate by telephone to measure the angle to the sun at different times.

If you accept measurements over the oceans, I contend that this experiment has been done thousands of times by the Royal Navy in the 18th and 19th centuries, and clearly disproves flat earth.

As you can see from your diagram, if you measured the distances between 20 and 30 degrees, and between 40 and 50 degrees and came up with identical numbers, that would either disprove Flat Earth or require magic perspective or some other explanation.

390
It's not just centripetal acceleration but also the non-roundness of Earth that leads to lower weights at the equator:
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/our-solar-system/the-earth/42-our-solar-system/the-earth/gravity/94-does-your-weight-change-between-the-poles-and-the-equator-intermediate

I too am curious for a flat earth explanation of this.

391
The solution to being unable to distinguish between the two rival interpretations of the Eratosthenes experiment is that if you do the measurement from more than two locations, you get different answers in one model, and the same answer in the other model. This argues for either one model to be wrong, or for Magic Perspective to come to the rescue of the failing model, and sheer coincidence to allow the other model to be wrong though it predicts consistent answers.

So a single Eratosthenes experiment can't distinguish between the two situations in your model, the iterated Eratosthenese experiment can, by getting conflicting values for the distance to the Sun.

The sun moves 15 degrees every hour. At the equator, 15 degrees of longitude is about 1000 miles. if you did an east-west Eratosthenes experiment where you measure the angle to the sun at a given time over 4 different timezones, you would find the following distances to the sun:

1000 miles / tangent(15 degrees) = 3700 miles
2000 miles / tangent(30 degrees) = 3500 miles
3000 miles / tangent(45 degrees) = 3000 miles
4000 miles / tangent(60 degrees) = 2300 miles

Of course, this would resolve to the sunset problem - at 90 degrees, the sun is touching the earth. The solution to the sunset problem is "perception" so I guess they would give you the same answer to this. And, "perspective" changing in ways that nobody has a model for means that the answer to how far the sun is from the earth is "nobody has any idea."

This might bother someone who thought they knew how far it was from, say, New York to Paris, but if you disclaim knowledge of such things then why would you be worried about the sun possibly being closer to the earth than San Francisco is to New York?

392
Flat Earth Community / Re: where we live!
« on: October 14, 2017, 10:15:45 PM »
Here's the track of a flight from JFK to Beijing:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA982

393
Flat Earth Community / Re: where we live!
« on: October 14, 2017, 10:04:18 PM »
Your question is still wrong.

If you fly from New York to Beijing, you don't fly east or west, you mostly fly north/south. Since both cities are north of the equator, by a LOT, it would be crazy to keep going all the way around.

Imagine you live on a city block, and you live next door to a coffee shop. If you walk to the coffee shop, why when you walk back do you not keep going around the block? If the block really existed, you'd walk all the way around the block, right? Since you walk back the short way, the block doesn't really exist.

See? This is crazy talk.

394
Tom Bishop is right.
About what?  The moon being 11 degrees above the horizon being impossible with the RE moon's 5 degree inclination?

Sorry I wasn't clear about this. He was right about the horizon being essentially flat:

This was 3DGeek:
Quote
Tom - the problem with your diagram is that you're still thinking like a flat earther.  In RET, the horizon isn't a horizontal line like you've drawn it.  It depends (critically) on the height of the eyepoint above the ground.  I know you claim that the "horizon rises to the eye" - but that's not what RET says.

My response was that Tom Bishop was right to draw the horizon flat, because if you are standing at the seashore, the horizon is within 1/20 of a degree of flat, so Tom Bishop's diagram is quite accurate.

I think the only confusion is that he is looking at his edge-on diagram of how much moon is illuminated, and states without evidence that it is not 95% illuminated. It isn't clear to me if he thinks it is more than 95% or less than 95% illuminated.

But, he was dead right about the horizon being pretty much perfectly flat, for an observer near sea level.

395
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Disproof: Clouds lit from below at sunset.
« on: October 13, 2017, 03:30:59 AM »
Originally posted in its own thread but no flat earth theorists commented.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/lGZ30LhidkSFbv0A2

-----
On Wednesday, September 20, 2017, I flew on Southwest Airlines flight 1293 from SJC to DAL. It happened to be flying over Texas right at local sunset. In addition, to the northwest of Dallas was a beautiful tall thunderstorm. I was able to take pictures of the following phenomena:

- The aircraft clearly illuminated by direct sunlight after local sunset
- A tall wall of clouds illustrating direct sunlight at the top, darkness at the bottom, and twilight illumination in between
- A high layer of clouds illuminated from beneath, and the shadow of a lower cloud cast upon the higher layer

Some of the photos were taken just a few minutes before local sunset (as seen from the ground at the location directly under the aircraft) and some just a few minutes after. The last two photos were taken approximately 5 minutes after local sunset and clearly show that the aircraft is illuminated by direct sunlight.

I view these photos as supporting Round Earth Theory and would be interested in other possible interpretations.

396
No fly zones?



397
In a flat Earth, the difference between 5-minute altitudes will not remain consistent. Make a graph of records if you need to. If there was no degree of roundness in the Earth, there would be abrupt changes in the altitude. But as long as the rate of change of the altitude meter remains relatively consistent, the Earth must be round, with no sudden, jagged edge. Consider my experiment very carefully. Do not miss any piece of logic.


Why do you think that the altimeter on an airplane would have jagged changes in readings on a flat earth? I don't understand the thinking behind this experiment.

Quote

Here's another case in point: the Earth is so huge, that the human could not directly see how much the shape of its terrain changes on average. If we were to walk from one point of a circle, or oval, and cover the smallest imaginable distance, that is very akin to walking about a mile around the Earth. The difference could hardly be found. For people who have studied basic Calculus techniques: When you zoom in enough on the curve of a graph, you see a tangent line appear. The tangent line, by definition, is a line, which is flat. But you know that this flatness is a simplification derived from a curve. It appears flat, but it is already known to be a constituent, an infinitesimal section, of the curve. Likewise, the human eye, with such a small distance observed, sees flat land where it is truly a super small section of a round planet. If I made a mistake with my reasoning, inform me.

Here's another case in point: the Earth, flat or round, does not have smooth terrain regardless of its overall shape. It has mountains, gorges, crevices, like a sharp, confusing, disproportionate graph. But I am using averages, nevertheless, to determine whether or not the Earth is flat. How do I get these averages? With the experiment I suggested already.

If you guys would like me to conduct a deeper analysis on the topic, with or without the notion of experimentation (i.e., common sense, logic), reply.

If anyone spots a flaw in my current analysis, again, reply, and make sure to criticize me at your leisure. I don't give a damn about my "feelings." I am not being sarcastic, I promise that my emotions are never affected by insult.

There may be a language barrier, but I don't understand your proposals. In the "walking around in a circle" experiment, what observations are we meant to make?

398
a) What do you think 95% luminosity looks like?
b) What percentage luminosity does the image in the middle look like to you?

Remember, the observer is from the left on the image in the middle. I've arranged the moons this way so you can compare the bottom of the largest width of the lit portion of the moon in all three images.

I don't know how to easily take a ball model and rotate it until it matches, but the fact that these all line up, and the middle image came from your (very excellent) diagram says a lot to me.

399
Flat Earth Community / Re: Sun and other planets flat
« on: October 08, 2017, 06:33:11 PM »
When we look at railroad tracks going off into the distance, we know they never touch, but they seem to get closer and closer. Can we tell how far away the next station is by looking at them?


400
Here's a diagram showing that the area shaded is as expected.

https://imgur.com/a/6AYee

I don't know if a direct image link works:

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