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Messages - Tom Bishop

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 15, 2021, 05:42:23 PM »
Tom spends alot of time on current trends of a capitalist society.

What he calls "communism" is actually just extreme capitalism.

Ever heard of a car lease?  Its a great way for dealerships to make money by having you "rent" a car and giving you another one after a period of time, all while ensuring you never stop paying a monthly fee that is equal to or higher than a car loan.  And you don't own the car at the end of the period. (Unless you buy it which will cost more than its worth)
And if you don't want it, they sell it as a used car.  Its a win-win for capitalism! (Just not consumers)

From the consumer's point of view that's pretty close to communism. Under communism the state owns everything. In this case it's just a matter of defining the big businesses as 'the government'. And seeing as the World Economic Forum comprises of big companies conspiring with world leaders to reshape the economy and the nature of capitalism, 'because of Covid', those businesses basically are the governing body.

They also want to reinvent capitalism to make "society" a stakeholder, suspiciously like the underlying ideas of communism/fascism of years past.

See this on the Great Reset from the Foundation for Economic Education:

Leaders of the World Economic Forum are seeking to implement a Great Reset of capitalism whereby “global stakeholders” cooperate to achieve “shared goals.” In the true spirit of not letting a crisis go to waste, they see the COVID-19 pandemic as presenting a unique opportunity to push their agenda.

"The level of cooperation and ambition this implies is unprecedented. But it is not some impossible dream," World Economic Forum Executive Chairman Klaus Schwab recently observed. "In fact, one silver lining of the pandemic is that it has shown how quickly we can make radical changes to our lifestyles."

Of course, when they say “our lifestyles” they mean your lifestyle, not their own. Their preferred vehicle for achieving their goals is other people’s businesses. In short, what they want is for private businesses to serve the interests of their own curated list of stakeholders rather than (as they see it) concentrating on returning profits to business owners. They want governments to pass laws and tax regimes to cajole businesses towards their favored ends. Since this arrangement still involves a modicum of private ownership of the means of production, they call it “Stakeholder Capitalism.”

It is important to recognize the subversive use of language here. Such a system is all about sidelining the true stakeholders, and undermining capitalism. This is Orwellian Newspeak at its best, since it misuses the word “stakeholder” and is actually closer to economic fascism than capitalism.


Why Stakeholder Capitalism Is Socially Destructive

When global re-setters insist that “all” stakeholders should be represented, what they really mean is “I neither eat pizza nor help to produce pizza… but WHAT IS THE PIZZA SHOP DOING FOR ME?!”

It is a boldfaced attempt to substitute the interests of non-stakeholders for the interests of stakeholders, using surreptitious language to blur the line.

“Society as a whole” has no unified goal, and if it did there would be no way to ascertain what it was. So those who try to install “society” as a stakeholder in the activities of corporations, are eager to insert their own goals and interests.

Murray Rothbard puts it well:

    "Whenever someone begins to talk about ‘society’ or ‘society’s’ interest coming before ‘mere individuals and their interest,’ a good operative rule is: guard your pocketbook. And guard yourself! Because behind the facade of ‘society,’ there is always a group of power-hungry doctrinaires and exploiters, ready to take your money and to order your actions and your life. For, somehow, they ‘are’ society!"


A system that replaces the goals of true stakeholders with the iron will of ruling elites, which retains nominal private ownership, but uses government force to pressure firms to serve centrally determined goals, looks and smells an awful lot like economic fascism.


Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 15, 2021, 02:13:51 AM »
The "debunk" admits that it's a video from the WEF, but suggests that it's unrelated to what the WEF actually wants. The WEF was asked about it and they said it was just what might happen "for better or worse". Wow, compelling. ::)

On its site the WEF is literally calling for wealth redistribution, reformation of capitalism, and government provided incomes:

"Wealth needs to be more broadly redistributed"

"Governments will need to intervene more to ensure better and fairer outcomes from private sector investments"

"Capitalism as we know it needs to be reformed"

"Capitalism and socialism will need to merge"

"Wealth has become abundant, thanks to capitalism, but it now needs to be more broadly redistributed, as socialists have long called for."

"In the new institutional context, governments will need to intervene more to ensure better and fairer outcomes from private sector investments. One way this can be done is by introducing a universal basic income (UBI) funded by taxing wealth and passive income, and by making better use of public savings."

One article is titled:

And you are arguing that their video was just an example of what might happen "for better or worse" and is totally unrelated to what these extremists actually want?

The World Economics Forum thinks that maybe that Karl Marx guy was right after all:

The Nation -

Strange as it may seem, debates on the dangers of rising income inequality are now de rigueur at the annual gathering of the global business elite at this snowbound Swiss mountain resort. During this year’s four-day meeting of the World Economic Forum, 2,600 corporate CEOs, investment bankers, fund managers and assorted social and intellectual entrepreneurs brainstormed and networked frantically during the day. Then, by night, they slithered from party to party in the old tuberculosis sanitariums—now five-star wellness hotels—along the ice-covered promenade.

More than half the 1,200 investors, analysts and traders consulted in a Bloomberg poll published on the eve of the summit agreed that inequality damages economic growth. “Marx was right; capitalism creates obstacles to its own advancement,” said Roubini. The audience nodded in agreement and then headed off for sessions on new investment opportunities in “frontier markets” like Mongolia and Azerbaijan.

Economist -

The World Economic Forum’s annual jamboree in Davos, Switzerland, might well be retitled “Marx was right”.

They have a video titled: Can You Rent Everything You Need in Life?

So is this actually something that they don't want? They are clearly trying to sell us on it.

Based on their other materials these aren't actually extreme communists or socialists producing these ideas?

Be honest. It's a video with 143 likes and 2.3K dislikes. Maybe everyone who watched the video just took it the wrong way and the WEF is really promoting things that they don't want but 'may' happen?

Maybe it will work this time.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 15, 2021, 12:16:38 AM »
From Professor of Economics Dr. Antony P. Mueller at the Misses Institute:

No Privacy, No Property: The World in 2030 According to the WEF

Individual liberty is at risk again. What may lie ahead was projected in November 2016 when the WEF published “8 Predictions for the World in 2030.” According to the WEF’s scenario, the world will become quite a different place from now because how people work and live will undergo a profound change. The scenario for the world in 2030 is more than just a forecast. It is a plan whose implementation has accelerated drastically since with the announcement of a pandemic and the consequent lockdowns.

According to the projections of the WEF’s “Global Future Councils,” private property and privacy will be abolished during the next decade. The coming expropriation would go further than even the communist demand to abolish the property of production goods but leave space for private possessions. The WEF projection says that consumer goods, too, would be no longer private property.


In a promotional video, the World Economic Forum summarizes the eight predictions in the following statements:

- People will own nothing. Goods are either free of charge or must be lent from the state.
- The United States will no longer be the leading superpower, but a handful of countries will dominate.
- Organs will not be transplanted but printed.
- Meat consumption will be minimized.
- Massive displacement of people will take place with billions of refugees.
- To limit the emission of carbon dioxide, a global price will be set at an exorbitant level.
- People can prepare to go to Mars and start a journey to find alien life.
- Western values will be tested to the breaking point..



The World Economic Forum and its related institutions in combination with a handful of governments and a few high-tech companies want to lead the world into a new era without property or privacy. Values like individualism, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are at stake, to be repudiated in favor of collectivism and the imposition of a “common good” that is defined by the self-proclaimed elite of technocrats. What is sold to the public as the promise of equality and ecological sustainability is in fact a brutal assault on human dignity and liberty. Instead of using the new technologies as an instrument of betterment, the Great Reset seeks to use the technological possibilities as a tool of enslavement. In this new world order, the state is the single owner of everything. It is left to our imagination to figure out who will program the algorithms that manage the distribution of the goods and services.

World leaders on board:

World leaders pledge a ‘great reset’ after the pandemic

Klaus Schwab, WEF’s founder and executive chairman, invoked the need to help provoke a “great reset” around the world in the wake of the pandemic. “The covid-19 crisis has shown us that our old systems are not fit anymore for the 21st century,” he said in a podcast ahead of events this week.


Faced with these grim conclusions, world leaders, at least rhetorically, rose to the occasion. French President Emmanuel Macron declared Tuesday that “we will get out of this pandemic only with an economy that thinks more about fighting inequalities.


“The capitalist model together with this open economy can no longer work in this environment,” said Macron.

Kristalina Georgieva, managing director of the International Monetary Fund — a global institution once synonymous with neoliberalism — said that “unless capitalism globally brings people closer together, we won’t be winners after this crisis.” She added that the pandemic had widened the gap between wealthy and poorer nations and that global cooperation on addressing a crisis that knew no borders was “not up to par.”

Those sentiments were echoed by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who once more used her bully pulpit at Davos to decry nationalism and called attention to the new challenges posed by unequal vaccine distribution around the world. “Let’s not kid ourselves: The question of who gets which vaccine in the world will of course leave new wounds and new memories, because those who get such emergency help will remember that,” she said.

Treaudu on board too: Coronavirus: Trudeau tells UN conference that pandemic provided "opportunity for a reset"

Prince Charles was a big proponent, top execs:

Introducing the 'Great Reset,' world leaders' radical plan to transform the economy


Joining Schwab at the WEF event was Prince Charles, one of the primary proponents of the Great Reset; Gina Gopinath, the chief economist at the International Monetary Fund; António Guterres, the secretary-general of the United Nations; and CEOs and presidents of major international corporations, such as Microsoft and BP.

Activists from groups such as Greenpeace International and a variety of academics also attended the event or have expressed their support for the Great Reset.

Although many details about the Great Reset won’t be rolled out until the World Economic Forum meets in Davos in January 2021, the general principles of the plan are clear: The world needs massive new government programs and far-reaching policies comparable to those offered by American socialists such as Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) in their Green New Deal plan.

Or, put another way, we need a form of socialism — a word the World Economic Forum has deliberately avoided using, all while calling for countless socialist and progressive plans.

To defeat the Covid we are now getting rid of capitalism and transitioning to a socialist world where private property is abolished. How exciting everyone.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 14, 2021, 08:34:22 PM »
Oh, so the flu is nearly completely eliminated in the 2020-2021 Flu Season, but COVID runs unchecked during that same period, creating similar numbers to what the flu did in the 2019-2020 Flu Season (38 Million). That definitely makes a lot of sense.  ::)

What's the point you're trying to make? That we shouldn't have had lockdowns, limited travel, mask mandates? That we shouldn't have a vaccine for Covid? That Covid is really just the annual flu? What exactly is it that you are suggesting?

I just presented the data. You can make of it as you will.

But if you want my personal opinion on the matter I don't think Covid is even a real pandemic.

I'm more inclined to think that world powers are trying to hoodwink us for some reason. It might have something to do with the "Great Reset" where they want to use Covid and climate change to implement universal communism on society.

The two justifications for the proposal, which has been aptly named by its supporters the “Great Reset,” are the COVID-19 pandemic (the short-term justification) and the so-called “climate crisis” caused by global warming (the long-term justification).

According to the Great Reset’s supporters, the plan would fundamentally transform much of society. As World Economic Forum (WEF) head Klaus Schwab wrote back in June, “the world must act jointly and swiftly to revamp all aspects of our societies and economies, from education to social contracts and working conditions. Every country, from the United States to China, must participate, and every industry, from oil and gas to tech, must be transformed. In short, we need a ‘Great Reset’ of capitalism.”


There has been some evidence suggesting that Biden and some of his biggest allies back the Great Reset and would attempt to impose it on the United States. But Biden and his team have never explicitly stated that America would be involved — that is, until now.

At a panel discussion about the Great Reset hosted by the World Economic Forum in mid-November, former Secretary of State John Kerry – Biden’s would-be special presidential envoy for climate – firmly declared that the Biden administration will support the Great Reset and that the Great Reset “will happen with greater speed and with greater intensity than a lot of people might imagine.”

When asked by panel host Borge Brende whether the World Economic Forum and other Great Reset supporters are “expecting too much too soon from the new president, or is he going to deliver first day on this [sic] topics?,” Kerry responded, “The answer to your question is, no, you’re not expecting too much.”

“And yes, it [the Great Reset] will happen,” Kerry continued. “And I think it will happen with greater speed and with greater intensity than a lot of people might imagine. In effect, the citizens of the United States have just done a Great Reset. We’ve done a Great Reset. And it was a record level of voting.”

Kerry later argued that the Great Reset is necessary to slow the “climate crisis” and that “I know Joe Biden believes … it’s not enough just to rejoin Paris [the Paris Climate Accords] for the United States. It’s not enough for us to just do the minimum of what Paris requires.”

Kerry also said that because of the Great Reset movement, he believes “we’re at the dawn of an extremely exciting time” and that “the greatest opportunity we have” to address social and economic problems is “dealing with the climate crisis.”

Yes, because we need to fundamentally change the nature of capitalism to defeat Covid and solve the climate crisis. What enlightened thinkers.  :o

You are going to own nothing and be happy, as stated in their promotional material:

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 14, 2021, 07:40:48 PM »
The region is the USA. Another source:

Public health and clinical laboratories reported 2,038 flu cases during the season from Sept. 27, 2020, to April 24, 2021, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The agency estimated about 38 million people were sick with the flu during the 2019-2020 season.

“It’s been an amazing year,” said Dr. John Swartzberg, a professor emeritus of infectious diseases at the University of California, Berkeley in the school of public health. “In all my years of being a flu watcher … I’ve never seen anything like this.”

The article also attributes the cause to "mask wearing," "social distancing" and "hand washing".

A year full of social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing and staying at home to prevent coronavirus spread rendered the 2020-2021 influenza season practically nonexistent.

Assuming that people even did it right (they didn't, almost no one practices the proper hand washing hygiene when putting on and taking off masks that surgeons perform) why does that defeat the flu, but not Covid?

Oh, so the flu is nearly completely eliminated in the 2020-2021 Flu Season, but COVID runs unchecked, creating similar numbers to what the flu did in the 2019-2020 Flu Season (38 Million). That definitely makes a lot of sense.  ::)

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 14, 2021, 06:51:12 PM »
Look at how many elderly and sickly people died of the flu in past years. The number is quite high. People who are old or sick die. It's just a fact of life.
Well sure. But as I said the all cause mortality in 2020 is significantly higher than the average, I suspect the same will be true in 2021 as a lot of the deaths in the UK were this year.

The flu cases were way down in 2020-2021 flu season, leading some to believe that the statistics are being manipulated or the Covid tests are cross-testing with existing diseases.

Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
Well sure. But that is a very big if. And it is extremely unlikely to be the case. You are comparing Covid deaths which are certified by medical professionals with VEARS reports, an open system where literally anyone can file a report and no casual link has been established.

Doctors are required to report to VAERS. It's the only system they report to on Vaccine effects.

"Healthcare providers are required to report certain adverse events following COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS."

If your argument is that the reports may be coming from the general public making incorrect reports , that information is available for further investigation. Someone claiming that their family member died after taking the vaccine is also concerning. The reports should definitely not be ignored.

Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
We have over a century of data on vaccines. They have all but eliminated certain diseases and been part of a massive rise in life expectancy. So we do know.
The RNA vaccines do the same thing as the traditional ones, they just work is a different  way

None of the other vaccines cause your body to continuously produce a substance for the rest of your life. That needs to be tested.

The other ones work by training your body to recognize the disease as a one time deal. Maybe that's safe. But this one works differently.

Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
So? The VAERS reports done come through to people on here.

What do you mean so? If there are people out there who want to police discussions and ignore or shut down discussion on a government reporting system which suggests that the vaccine may be hurting people it's wrong.

Twitter and YouTube have gone hog-wild on censoring all discussion related to things that are negative to the vaccines recently. Some people can't handle opposing opinions. Probably why you have opted to end a number of your previous discussions with "You're trolling!" rather than any legitimate counterargument.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 14, 2021, 05:17:47 PM »
Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
I don't know about the people in their 40s and 50s, but you're basically correct in that for young, healthy people this disease is not generally that dangerous. But the pandemic has had a big impact on deaths and stretched health services in multiple countries. It's not a fuss about nothing.

Look at how many elderly and sickly people died of the flu in past years. The number is quite high. People who are old or sick die. It's just a fact of life.

Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
And, again, a lot more people have had the vaccine in the last few months than have had Covid. So even if all these deaths genuinely are related to the vaccine (and I have explained why that is not a valid assumption) it would still be statistically tiny number compared with your chances of dying from Covid.

If the mass-vaccination campaigns are starting to cause more deaths on a weekly basis than Covid then that should be concerning.

At least with Covid we have a general knowledge from past human-virus interaction over the millennia that viral illness is generally temporary and swiftly defeated by the immune system. We don't really know what these vaccines are going to start doing in the future.

In this case you are trying to convince me that it's a good idea to do experiments on me and reprogram my mRNA to produce things in my body for the rest of my life without the long term testing to prove that its safe. Abhorrent.

Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
Agreed. And it isn't being ignored.

I saw some arguments here about wanting to ignore it - "Just about anything is 'possible'. It's not worth spreading disinformation about our best chance at beating the pandemic just because the numbers you want aren't available."

That seems to be saying that it might be disinformation, so we should extinguish discussion about it.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 14, 2021, 01:04:46 PM »
That's fairly accurate. But the thing I've been looking at in the UK is all cause mortality, there were two big spikes above the average during the two waves of the virus. That tells me that there's something going on which isn't typical.
Overall the CFR (Case Fatality Rate) from Covid is around 1%. Greatly skewed towards older people, granted, but I was talking to a doctor recently who works in intensive care and he was telling me that over the last winter many of the people in hospital with Covid were in their 40s and 50s. So younger people can still get very ill.

The people in their 40's and 50's had a chronic illness like cancer. It is fairly established that the people dying are either elderly or they had a serious pre-existing issue. There are plenty of articles on that. That those numbers are people in their 40's and 50's tells the story all by itself. Not many children and teenagers and 20-somethings dying of this disease. They are far less likely to have a chronic health condition than someone in their 40's or 50's.

And VAERS is a website where literally anyone can report an Adverse Event.
And of course significantly more people have been vaccinated than have ever caught Covid.

So...I'm not sure what point you think you're making here.

Actually VAERS is a website where you need to provide detailed personal information to submit a report, where doctors are required by law to report the adverse effects to the vaccines to VAERS, and where submitting a false report is highly illegal.

It says so right on the website:

"Knowingly filing a false VAERS report is a violation of Federal law (18 U.S. Code § 1001) punishable by fine and imprisonment."

The CDC has removed false reports in the past.

The CDC said the report was removed from the VAERS database for being "completely made up."

They remove reports. So they are policing it. On the other side, a hospital could equally falsely report a death to Covid when it is clearly something else, for the Covid funding.

It's also the ONLY centralized government-reporting mechanism in the US on adverse vaccine effects, which is a significant point. The simple fact is that VAERS is the only government service reporting on adverse vaccine effects and this government service is telling us that last week more people have died of the vaccine that of the Coronavirus.

The special pleading here of "it coulda' been a bunch of scammers making false reports" (paraphrased) is irrelevant to the fact that the government is giving us data with its only reporting system telling us that a significant number of people have died to this vaccine, which would be the utmost irresponsible to ignore.

Instead, you guys should be calling for investigation, like the CDC investigated the one in the link above.

But no, I see comments that it should be ignored because it is "not worth spreading disinformation". Lets ignore it. That's exactly the sentiment given. Yeah right. It is irresponsible to ignore the only US Government reporting mechanism on the vaccine. It is blatant and clear that these statements are made because it hurts the feelings and pre-determined beliefs on the matter.

If a government reporting system, of the only one to exist in the country, was suggesting that a bunch of people were dying to a drug that you weren't emotionally invested in, you guys would be concerned about that. But because there are some dogmatic beliefs going on, it's not too concerning in this case. A bunch of dogma and faith-based reasoning.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 13, 2021, 08:08:27 PM »
The COVID-19 deaths are also reported even if it's unclear if COVID-19 was the cause. In fact, the people dying of it are the elderly and people with serious chronic conditions. No one is separating out how much of their death was due to their Cancer.

Just about anything is "possible". It's not worth spreading disinformation about our best chance at beating the pandemic just because the numbers you want aren't available.

Why does the pandemic need to be beat? The elderly and people with serious chronic diseases are also likely to be killed by a range of diseases. That's what happens when you get old or sick. You die.

If the vaccine is helpful, it should at best be taken by those groups that are at risk of dying of the disease; not healthy adults and children. There is no reason to perform mRNA gene experiments on the healthy.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 13, 2021, 06:12:10 PM »
What is there to understand about the numbers?
Even assuming this obviously biased source is accurately reporting the numbers (which I haven't verified one way or another), you are comparing a number for the year to date with a number for last week.

It's not though. It's comparing these two numbers:

Last week they were reporting 6,985 deaths, and this week that number jumped up 2,043 to 9,048.


Also, last week there were 1,505 COVID-19 deaths in the United States.

Quote from: xasop
It is invalid to assume that an increase in a reported figure from one week to the next constitutes the number of deaths in that week. There are any number of possible reasons why the reporting of deaths could have been delayed from previous weeks.

Another possible reason is that the vaccine caused more deaths than the Coronavirus. Such data is certainly worth reporting and alerting us about.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 13, 2021, 05:51:31 PM »
What does this mean?

"there were more Covid vaccine deaths in the United States last week than Covid deaths in the United States last week."
It means that the person who wrote that sentence has understood the numbers about as well as Tom has.

What is there to understand about the numbers?

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 13, 2021, 05:29:39 PM »
By the CDC's own data, there were more deaths from the vaccine last week in the US than there were from the Coronavirus:

SHOCK REPORT: There Were More COVID-19 Vaccine Deaths Last Week in US than COVID-19 Deaths

There are now 9,125 reported deaths from the COVID-19 vaccinations across the United States this year.

The number of deaths linked to vaccines this year has absolutely skyrocketed. According to the CDC’s own data, in 2021 n the first 3 months, the VAERS website recorded over 1,750 deaths due to vaccines in the US.

Last week they were reporting 6,985 deaths, and this week that number jumped up 2,043 to 9,048.

That number is now at 9,195

“The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database contains information on unverified reports of adverse events (illnesses, health problems and/or symptoms) following immunization with US-licensed vaccines. Reports are accepted from anyone and can be submitted electronically at”

There have been 411,931 adverse reactions reported to the vaccine.

Also, last week there were 1,505 COVID-19 deaths in the United States.

That means there were more Covid vaccine deaths in the United States last week than Covid deaths in the United States last week.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Translations of the Bible
« on: July 13, 2021, 02:50:55 PM »
The Gospel of Judas is an interesting non-cononical scripture that didn't make it into the Bible by the Church authorities. This one goes into detail, explaining that the evil/mischievous God is the one people are praying to. Coincidence?

It is also interesting to compare some translations into languages other than English. Genesis 2:23 is especially interesting, which the GNB renders as (emphasis mine)
Quote from: Genesis 2:23
Then the man said, “At last, here is one of my own kind — Bone taken from my bone, and flesh from my flesh. ‘Woman’ is her name because she was taken out of man.”
The English words "woman" and "man" resemble each other in form, just like the Hebrew words "אִשָּׁה" and "אִישׁ" that they are used to translate, but this is not true of their equivalents in every language.

Why is it that the concordance dictionaries have 'marry' as a synonym for 'taken'

Lexicon for Genesis 2:23:

Click on 'she was taken':

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. root
to take
NASB Translation
accept (8), accepted (3), accepts (2), bring (18), brought (13), buy (1), buys (1), capture (2), captured (2), carry (3), caught (2), exact (1), find (1), flashing (1), flashing forth (1), get (25), gets (1), got (2), has (1), keep (1), married (9), married* (6), marries (1), marry (5), obtain (1), placed (2), procured (2), put (1), raise (3), receive (20), received (12), receives (3), receiving (1), seize (3), seized (2), select (1), selected (1), sent (1), supply (1), take (355), taken (74), takes (15), taking (2), took (352), took away (1), use (1), used (1), wins (1).

Since this very specific man-woman connection is in there it seems that the translation could be 'woman was her name because she married man', and the sexist Church authorities interpreted it as taken from man, like they reframe everything else to manipulate the story to suit themselves.

I have some doubts that such a craft would be manipulating gravity. If gravity could be manipulated then I would expect that a laboratory would have been able to discover some signs of it by now. There have been billions of dollars spent on trying to find the quantum or fundamental source of gravity, with researchers trying everything any anything, to little avail. Decades and decades of fundamental research has left the greatest minds in physics stumped. They have basically given up on it by now. If a scientist wanted to create something that did what a UFO did it would be easier to explore known existing phenomena.

A fly can make zig-zaggs through the air on a dime, unlike a plane.

A child who lets go of their balloon into the atmosphere can make vertical maneuvers that are somewhat difficult for a plane for perform.

I bet a plane can't distribute its weight like this:

In fact, by manipulating the angular momentum of a very heavy spinning wheel, its weight can be more easily manipulated. This guy is swinging around a heavy metal object above his head that he can't lift at all when not spinning.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trans athletes
« on: July 12, 2021, 06:52:01 PM »
So the New Testament states that homosexuals are shameful, not normal, sinful, and deserve penalty. Your rebuttal is "you're trolling". ::)

It has been understood for a millennia that the Bible doesn't like gays. Your interpretation appears to be based solely on the "Love your neighbors" line, as if it means that we should suddenly accept pedophiles and their abuse of children, or accept murderers who kill innocents. No, it doesn't mean that the sins previously outlined in the Bible are abolished. The New Testament, and Jesus himself, outlines that murder, sexual offenses, theft, et all. are still bad.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trans athletes
« on: July 11, 2021, 07:07:26 PM »
Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
Well no. They’re not Christians. They don’t believe in the New Testament. If they did they’d be Christians. The view you’re exposing is a fringe view amongst Christians. I said:

But can we agree that most Christians are not kosher?

The Jews and Muslims have access to those same texts, whether they choose to reject them or not. They obviously still believe that God is telling them to restrict their diet and don't see it what way. Eating kosher isn't a "fringe view." Plenty of people interpret the scriptures in that way.

Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
Well I’ve already addressed the rest. You can’t look at the Old Testament in isolation, it has to be looked at through the lens of the New Testament. But these are admittedly complicated issues.

Here is a passage from the New Testament:

Romans 1:26-27 - "That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved."


Not normal


Suffered penalty

The New Testament is still clearly saying that homosexuality is bad there. I don't see that anything has changed.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trans athletes
« on: July 11, 2021, 12:56:10 AM »
Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
See. The reason it’s you doing it is that, as always, you are promoting a view which is not common. I don’t know if you do that because you really go out of your way to not believe anything which is mainstream or whether you just think it’s fun to try and debate from the weaker position. But whatever, so you go off and cherry pick sources which back up that fringe view.

So the Jews and Muslims who eat kosher or halal in accordance with the OT teachings have a fringe view now? Sounds fairly insulting to them.

Someone is certainly wrong about what God wants in the scriptures. It's the Christians versus the Jews and Muslims. Someone must have it wrong.

Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
Oh right, so you’re just a hypocrite instead? You believe one thing but do another? Ok, if that’s what you’re going with.

I don't recall saying that the Bible should be religiously followed. I'm fairly skeptical about it. You're the guy who goes around bragging about being a Christian who believes the Bible is sacred, yet won't accept its teachings about gays, crossdressers, and sexual immorality. Pretty hypocritical on your part. Once again, you are falsely accusing people of doing what you are actually doing.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trans athletes
« on: July 10, 2021, 01:58:57 AM »
Have you noticed that every time you rant about cherry picking, that you're really the one doing it?

The Bible says something that you don't like, or doesn't say something, so you find an unstated interpretation. What is supposed to be a divinely appointed apostille and writer of the book in the Bible gave you the interpretation. He didn't interpret it as non-kosher foods being fine to eat. That was not the conclusion. If that was the conclusion, he would have said so. You ignored the author's conclusions of what it meant and came up with an interpretation to suit yourself.

And no, I don't eat kosher. I simply don't feel the need  to lie to myself about what it says.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trans athletes
« on: July 09, 2021, 10:10:04 AM »
Paul's vision in Acts 10 is generally why Christians don't feel bound by OT rules on food.

So something came to him in a dream and told him to do something bad because God said it was okay. That sounds more like a personal lesson rather than a direct declaration to mankind about new rules. The interpretation of new rules given to mankind is indirect. In another story God tells Abraham to murder his son. But that doesn't mean murdering children is now okay. It was one of the numerous personal lessons/tests, which God eventually stopped on the mountain top.

Peter didn't even interpret the vision as it being okay to eat non-kosher foods:

So in most Gentile churches when this portion of Scripture is read out loud, afterwards the pastor with a smug smile of satisfaction on his face closes his Bible, looks out to the audience and declares…

“Could it not be more plain?”

“The Lord had sent to Peter in a vision unclean forbidden animals and told him to kill and EAT them!”

“Therefore, the Lord has ceased from calling them unclean, and that’s why it’s okay to enjoy your ham sandwiches.”

Well, not so fast there Mr. Gentile Pastor.

The first thing we should take note of is that Peter was quite confused about the vision he had just had and didn’t immediately jump to any conclusions regarding its meaning.

And then a few verses later in verse 34, we’re told the conclusion Peter came to:

“Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.”

Peter interpreted this vision to mean that God accepted men from all nations who trusted in Him.

Peter did NOT interpret this to mean that he could now go hog wild (pun intended) and eat whatsoever pleased him.

Let me say that again.

Peter did NOT interpret this to mean that the Kosher food laws were now abolished.

He interpreted it to mean that God would accept all men, in other words Gentiles, who trusted in Him.

According to this Apostle, the one who wrote the actual Scripture of the Book of Acts, this portion of the New Testament is NOT to be taken as an instruction that the laws concerning clean and unclean animals had been done away with.

When Peter had finally figured out the meaning of the baffling vision God had given to him, the conclusion he reached was that it had nothing to do with food.

It had to do with men.

In other words, FOOD was being used as a metaphor representing MEN.

Here’s what you need to understand.

Unclean animals were a well-understood and very familiar Jewish symbol that represented the uncleanness of the Gentiles.

This whole story was all about Jews shunning gentiles because Jews considered all gentiles unclean.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trans athletes
« on: July 09, 2021, 01:51:35 AM »
Have you ever heard of kosher foods? There are plenty of observant faithful who try follow those rules. They follow them for reasons unknown to them. Maybe there is a hierarchy-of-life reason; unknown covenants between the life on Earth or its angle maintainers. Possibly quality reasons. Or perhaps God is trying to test his follower's discipline, like he tests people in the Bible at various points.

The hair rules may be in reference to something not to do when in mourning. God judges your hair style when paying respects to the dead too, not only your cross-dressing and homo sex. It's a very judgemental God. The faithful who go as far to emulate the dietary restrictions would probably try to follow that as well, if they could remember, as evidenced by the extensive analysis of such passages.

All of this is further evidence that the OT is still cannon for many people and has not been discarded. People still try to follow those rules. Observant Jews eat kosher products. Muslims eat many of the kosher products. Some Christians do it.

Many Christians say that they don't need to do it with Matthew 15:11 - "Not what enters into the mouth defiles the man; but what goes forth out of the mouth, this defiles the man." But the reasoning for the dietary laws aren't really clearly stated in the scriptures. The purpose of it could be other than defilation, of course (testing, unknown covenants). Others advocate playing it safe with a simple plain following of the laws:

Should Christians Eat Kosher? “Kosher” describes food that complies with the dietary laws of traditional Jewish law found in the Torah. Matthew 5:17-18 tells Christians that Jesus came to fulfill not abolish the Laws. It continues that the laws will not disappear until heaven and earth disappear. If you believe in Jesus and heaven and earth have not disappeared you should eat a Kosher diet

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