[RightRoundBabyRightRound]

Hi, I'm sure this has been brought up before, but how can the flat earth model explain the relatively similar flight times in northern and southern hemispheres. From the popular image of a flat earth, it seems that a flight from South America to Australia/NZ would take a very long time, but flights from Auckland to Santiago only take around 12 hours. This can be compared to a flight from Shanghai to LA, which also only takes around 12 hours. If the earth were flat, wouldn't the northern LA--->Shanghai flight be much shorter than Santiago----> Auckland?


Some data:
Auckland to Santiago= 11 hours, 5 minutes, 6,002 miles (Latam Airlines, Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner)
Santiago: 33.4489° S, 70.6693° W
Auckland: 36.8485° S, 174.7633° E
difference: 116 degrees


Shanghai to LA: 11 hours, 50 minutes, 6,505 miles (American Airlines, Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner)
LA: 33.9416° N, 118.4085° W
Shanghai: 31.2304° N, 121.4737° E
difference: 121 degrees

[9111315]

I would think that the first step would be to prove that the round earth model is wrong. This will help you develop a viable FE theory to accomplish the same task.

All of the flat maps for the Round Earth model are distorted and cannot be trusted anywhere beyond a city map. Get some string and stretch it between your first two cities on their proposed Globe. The string will automatically follow what they call a "Great Circle Route." On an FE Map, It is easy to see that a flight from Tokyo to Los Angeles never goes across the center of the ocean but goes near Alaska. Their RE Great Circle Route was created to show a similar flight path. Put knots in the string for each city.

Then you can take that same string and put the two knots over the other two cities in the southern hemisphere that have the same flight time (and speed). The knots cannot line up on their RE if it is fake.  You can get a new string and do the same for your pair of cities on a FE map.

Let me know if this helped. Tell us what you find out.

[RightRoundBabyRightRound]

I agree with you that flat projections of the round earth are understandably distorted (take the size of Greenland for example), but the strings do line up when compared on a round globe because these flights travel roughly along the same latitudes in the north and south (~33 degrees N and S). The strings do not line up, however, on any flat earth map that I have come across. Please let me know if you can find a flat earth map that depicts Shanghai/LA and Santiago de Chile/Auckland to be of similar disntances or if you can explain the similar flight times.

[9111315]

I don't know of a better FE map than the one in your OP.

If you can find a fake globe, measure the distances over/under the south part of their globe. See how that lines up with your pair of cities on the north part of the ball.

Do the same with your FE model. The errors should become immediately apparent.

[Ratboy]

If we accept the flat earth scenario, anyone who has flown east to west has seen how the sun pretty much goes at the same speed as the plane (you leave at noon and arrive around noon even though you flew for 6 hours).  So the sun is moving around the earth at speeds just a little faster than commercial aircraft.  The smaller part of the earth in the northern hemisphere is in the sun for half the day and dark for half the day.  The moon moves a little slower, but it can be in the sky in the north for pretty much half the night during a full moon. 
If you draw a map that connects all these cities so that the flight times somehow work out, there is the bigger problem that the sun and moon have to cover them for half the time as well.  If the southern hemisphere is a lot bigger than the northern hemisphere and this would be suggested if the north pole is a dot and the south pole is actually a huge circumferential wall of ice, the sun moving the speed of a jet has to make it all around the disk so that today the sun can rise in Buenos Aires at 5:41 am and set at 8:08 pm.  And it also has to rise in Sydney Australia at 5:44 am and set at 8:08 pm and rise in Cape Town at 5:35 am and set at 7:59 pm.  And someone in Buenas Aires that sees the sunrise and phones the person in Sydney and asks what time it is there will hear that it is sunset there.  And if they do a conference call to include the woman at Collins research station in Antarctica, she will tell them the sun has been visible all day.  That is some flight path for the sun.
And it goes back to another thread where it was mentioned that if you live in one country you might forget there are other countries.  I doubt anyone who lives in the southern hemisphere would accept that the north pole is the center of the universe. 

[9111315]

Another suggestion is to use all foreign flights.

All the Gate times in the US are controlled by the FAA, which is controlled by NASA. Same goes for anything in Europe because of the European Space Agency.

[inquisitive]

Another suggestion is to use all foreign flights.

All the Gate times in the US are controlled by the FAA, which is controlled by NASA. Same goes for anything in Europe because of the European Space Agency.

How are management of gate times related to flight durations?  Proof about ESA please.

[9111315]

They need to make the flight times look like the would on a round earth. They just list the scheduled arrival time that is needed to make the time look legitimate.

If more time is needed, they just post delayed flight at the arriving airport. The airlines are also more than happy to fly slower than normal cruise speed to save fuel.

The posted flight times will only work on a globe if the earth really was a globe or all the posted times were manipulated by NASA to make the earth seem like a globe.

If you are not in the cockpit, you can not trust the flight times.

[inquisitive]

They need to make the flight times look like the would on a round earth. They just list the scheduled arrival time that is needed to make the time look legitimate.

If more time is needed, they just post delayed flight at the arriving airport. The airlines are also more than happy to fly slower than normal cruise speed to save fuel.

The posted flight times will only work on a globe if the earth really was a globe or all the posted times were manipulated by NASA to make the earth seem like a globe.

If you are not in the cockpit, you can not trust the flight times.

Please explain. Flight times match distances and GPS receivers confirm speed.

[9111315]

They need to make the flight times look like the would on a round earth. They just list the scheduled arrival time that is needed to make the time look legitimate.

If more time is needed, they just post delayed flight at the arriving airport. The airlines are also more than happy to fly slower than normal cruise speed to save fuel.

The posted flight times will only work on a globe if the earth really was a globe or all the posted times were manipulated by NASA to make the earth seem like a globe.

If you are not in the cockpit, you can not trust the flight times.

Please explain. Flight times match distances and GPS receivers confirm speed.

The date is being harvested from scheduled flight times, correct? That date is submitted and approved by the Government.

In an FE universe, the GPS data is also faked to provide a round earth conspiracy.

[StinkyOne]

They need to make the flight times look like the would on a round earth. They just list the scheduled arrival time that is needed to make the time look legitimate.

If more time is needed, they just post delayed flight at the arriving airport. The airlines are also more than happy to fly slower than normal cruise speed to save fuel.

The posted flight times will only work on a globe if the earth really was a globe or all the posted times were manipulated by NASA to make the earth seem like a globe.

If you are not in the cockpit, you can not trust the flight times.

Please explain. Flight times match distances and GPS receivers confirm speed.

The date is being harvested from scheduled flight times, correct? That date is submitted and approved by the Government.

In an FE universe, the GPS data is also faked to provide a round earth conspiracy.

Hmmm, that's odd. I geocache and use GPS to find the location of caches. It works amazingly well. Soooooo....yeah.

[Ratboy]

I answered this a number of times on other threads.  Drive somewhere.  Look at the odometer and fly back.  Look at your watch a lot.  Drive somewhere close and walk back counting the steps.  Look at a rural map of farms.  Farmers now use GPS to plow their fields automatically (self driven tractors).  They would raise a stink if someone was ripping them off.  Each farmer knows how much land they have.  I once organized a beer shipment for the dorm in college.  600 cases but no one person got more than 10 cases.  600 cases is 7200 bottles but if I helped myself to one, the person that bought that one case would notice.  That is just like scheduling flights, or using GPS to cultivate your wheat or golfers using GPS to measure the distance to the cup.  If it works for a person on one thing, it works overall because it is all interconnected and you cannot screw one guy at the end of the line. The sun and the moon and the zodiac stars have to do an intricate dance where they fly between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn, with the zodiac stars zipping between them daily, the moon monthly and the sun yearly.  The sun has to be the farthest up in the sky at noon for everyone regardless how far south or how far north they are.

[9111315]

Hmmm, that's odd. I geocache and use GPS to find the location of caches. It works amazingly well. Soooooo....yeah.

Do satellites exist? If yes, then the earth is round and the GPS system identifies the location of your geocache on the globe.

If satellites don't exist and the earth is flat, then radio stations broadcast a signal that makes the flat earth appear to be a globe while at the same time providing a coordinate that does work to locate your geocache on a flat earth.

A similar manipulation would have to be accomplished with flight times and distances. Even GPS distances can be faked to match the Globe overlay to the flat earth. One way or the other is false.

[TomInAustin]

They need to make the flight times look like the would on a round earth. They just list the scheduled arrival time that is needed to make the time look legitimate.

If more time is needed, they just post delayed flight at the arriving airport. The airlines are also more than happy to fly slower than normal cruise speed to save fuel.

The posted flight times will only work on a globe if the earth really was a globe or all the posted times were manipulated by NASA to make the earth seem like a globe.

If you are not in the cockpit, you can not trust the flight times.

Hmmm, that's odd. I geocache and use GPS to find the location of caches. It works amazingly well. Soooooo....yeah.

Do satellites exist? If yes, then the earth is round and the GPS system identifies the location of your geocache on the globe.

If satellites don't exist and the earth is flat, then radio stations broadcast a signal that makes the flat earth appear to be a globe while at the same time providing a coordinate that does work to locate your geocache on a flat earth.

A similar manipulation would have to be accomplished with flight times and distances. Even GPS distances can be faked to match the Globe overlay to the flat earth. One way or the other is false.

The burden  of proof is on you.  Show evidence that any one of your statements is true.   

[9111315]

They need to make the flight times look like the would on a round earth. They just list the scheduled arrival time that is needed to make the time look legitimate.

If more time is needed, they just post delayed flight at the arriving airport. The airlines are also more than happy to fly slower than normal cruise speed to save fuel.

The posted flight times will only work on a globe if the earth really was a globe or all the posted times were manipulated by NASA to make the earth seem like a globe.

If you are not in the cockpit, you can not trust the flight times.

Hmmm, that's odd. I geocache and use GPS to find the location of caches. It works amazingly well. Soooooo....yeah.

Do satellites exist? If yes, then the earth is round and the GPS system identifies the location of your geocache on the globe.

If satellites don't exist and the earth is flat, then radio stations broadcast a signal that makes the flat earth appear to be a globe while at the same time providing a coordinate that does work to locate your geocache on a flat earth.

A similar manipulation would have to be accomplished with flight times and distances. Even GPS distances can be faked to match the Globe overlay to the flat earth. One way or the other is false.

The burden  of proof is on you.  Show evidence that any one of your statements is true.

I provided two contradictory options. One of them is not true.

GPS receives operate on radio signals. There must be transmitted somewhere. Either terrestrial or from space. Either 2D earth or 3D earth.

I would be interested in any additional options that you have.

[RightRoundBabyRightRound]

Hmmm, that's odd. I geocache and use GPS to find the location of caches. It works amazingly well. Soooooo....yeah.

Do satellites exist? If yes, then the earth is round and the GPS system identifies the location of your geocache on the globe.

If satellites don't exist and the earth is flat, then radio stations broadcast a signal that makes the flat earth appear to be a globe while at the same time providing a coordinate that does work to locate your geocache on a flat earth.

A similar manipulation would have to be accomplished with flight times and distances. Even GPS distances can be faked to match the Globe overlay to the flat earth. One way or the other is false.

“Do satellites exist? If yes, then the earth is round...” You can easily see the details of the ISS with a backyard telescope.

[StinkyOne]

Hmmm, that's odd. I geocache and use GPS to find the location of caches. It works amazingly well. Soooooo....yeah.

Do satellites exist? If yes, then the earth is round and the GPS system identifies the location of your geocache on the globe.

If satellites don't exist and the earth is flat, then radio stations broadcast a signal that makes the flat earth appear to be a globe while at the same time providing a coordinate that does work to locate your geocache on a flat earth.

A similar manipulation would have to be accomplished with flight times and distances. Even GPS distances can be faked to match the Globe overlay to the flat earth. One way or the other is false.

Well this is very easy. GPS works anywhere on Earth. Hiking in the middle of nowhere in Alaska? No radio stations, but GPS works. Same for the Outback in Australia. Siberia? yep, GPS (or GLONASS) has got you covered. There is a very specific reason I listed all of those different countries. What you are proposing is that the whole world is in on GPS faking. Why didn't Iraq just turn off their GPS transmitters when we were dropping bombs on their heads with pinpoint accuracy? You can't possibly believe that all the nations of the world have agreed to trick their people into thinking the Earth is flat by broadcasting GPS signals. What do they have to gain??? This is just dumb.

[Rounder]

If you are not in the cockpit, you can not trust the flight times.

What’s so special about the cockpit?  Why can passengers not trust flight times?  I myself have taken two trips from Portland to Vienna, the flight times matched the published times.

[9111315]

If you are not in the cockpit, you can not trust the flight times.

What’s so special about the cockpit?  Why can passengers not trust flight times?  I myself have taken two trips from Portland to Vienna, the flight times matched the published times.

How fast is the aircraft flying through the air? What is the ground speed? Are they flying point to point or do they have to fly around foreign airspace or restricted military airspace? Did they reduce speed drastically or put into a holding pattern.

Using the takeoff and landing times will be much better than departure and arrival times, but we still have all the above unknowns.

[RightRoundBabyRightRound]

If you are not in the cockpit, you can not trust the flight times.

What’s so special about the cockpit?  Why can passengers not trust flight times?  I myself have taken two trips from Portland to Vienna, the flight times matched the published times.

How fast is the aircraft flying through the air? What is the ground speed? Are they flying point to point or do they have to fly around foreign airspace or restricted military airspace? Did they reduce speed drastically or put into a holding pattern.

Using the takeoff and landing times will be much better than departure and arrival times, but we still have all the above unknowns.

Honest question for you and other FEers: what are your opinions/thoughts on flight tracking apps like Flight Aware?