Instead of arguing, fighting and insulting
« on: August 01, 2016, 05:33:20 PM »
Hi everyone,

I am new to this website but have been *ahem* 'researching' flat earth on youtube and the net for some time, I always seem to find a lot of people fighting for and against with lots of theory, counter theory, scripture and historical evidence. I have no interest in this whatsoever, I personally believe people will always gravitate towards the worldview that best fits the narrative of their values and life purpose.

Now, I am a pretty practical person who would like to prove one way or the other in an open and repeatable way. I have an open mind and a fairly empty weekend calendar.  The question I put to everyone here is, do any of you actually want to do some experiments to prove/disprove this theory? I am UK based (Hereford) and if your genuinely want to work on this, I have allowed emails to me from this forum.

I do not want to debate or have someone 'show me the light', but I could do with a hand in developing a conclusive test.

Many thanks,

John.

geckothegeek

Re: Instead of arguing, fighting and insulting
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2016, 09:57:19 PM »
Hi everyone,

I am new to this website but have been *ahem* 'researching' flat earth on youtube and the net for some time, I always seem to find a lot of people fighting for and against with lots of theory, counter theory, scripture and historical evidence. I have no interest in this whatsoever, I personally believe people will always gravitate towards the worldview that best fits the narrative of their values and life purpose.

Now, I am a pretty practical person who would like to prove one way or the other in an open and repeatable way. I have an open mind and a fairly empty weekend calendar.  The question I put to everyone here is, do any of you actually want to do some experiments to prove/disprove this theory? I am UK based (Hereford) and if your genuinely want to work on this, I have allowed emails to me from this forum.

I do not want to debate or have someone 'show me the light', but I could do with a hand in developing a conclusive test.

Many thanks,

John.

There is really no reason for debate. The earth is a globe, but for some reason a very few persons seem to want us to believe that they really believe that the earth is flat.
I believe you would believe that was unbelievable.

I made a suggestion that the website might have less argueing, insulting , name calling , etc. if they changed the website(s) to "The Flat Earth Society Fiction" websites(s).
Just recognize the fact that the earth is a globe. And just have these website(s) for people to post their ideas about how things would have to be IF the earth was flat. Like the horizon, which is not a horizon, but is something that "Is just an indistinct blur which fades away at an infinite diistance." LOL.

But the so-called "The True Flat Earthers" seem to want no part in that. They seem to want you to know that they (maybe pretend ?) to really believe in Rowbotham and the earth is flat, etc. I really think that these website(s) are really what a lot of people seem to think they are :  "  Spoofs, pranks, jokes or hoaxes."
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 02:15:20 AM by geckothegeek »

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Offline crutonius

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Re: Instead of arguing, fighting and insulting
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 02:05:53 AM »
Hi everyone,

I am new to this website but have been *ahem* 'researching' flat earth on youtube and the net for some time, I always seem to find a lot of people fighting for and against with lots of theory, counter theory, scripture and historical evidence. I have no interest in this whatsoever, I personally believe people will always gravitate towards the worldview that best fits the narrative of their values and life purpose.

Now, I am a pretty practical person who would like to prove one way or the other in an open and repeatable way. I have an open mind and a fairly empty weekend calendar.  The question I put to everyone here is, do any of you actually want to do some experiments to prove/disprove this theory? I am UK based (Hereford) and if your genuinely want to work on this, I have allowed emails to me from this forum.

I do not want to debate or have someone 'show me the light', but I could do with a hand in developing a conclusive test.

Many thanks,

John.

We're all pretty sure what the conclusion would be if we actually tested this. It would kind of ruin the fun of a forum built around debating an absurd viewpoint.

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Instead of arguing, fighting and insulting
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2016, 08:50:24 PM »
I could do with a hand in developing a conclusive test.

Lunar occultations of bright stars provide a method for determining if the stars and moon are both at the same distance from the earth's surface, as is claimed by flat earth adherents.  They also provide an opportunity to calculate the distance to the moon under various assumptions of star distance, or the distance to the stars under various assumptions of lunar distance.  To wit: Let us establish that observer A (in America) and observer B (in the British Isles) both locate the same bright star in the sky.  If the stars are truly somewhere in the neighborhood of "about 3000 miles" above the earth, and if the moon is also "about 3000 miles" above the earth, then when the moon passes between the earth and some bright star, observer A and observer B should see that happen at very nearly the exact same time.  If, on the other hand, the moon is vast orders of magnitude closer to the earth than the stars are, there should be a vast difference in time between observer A seeing the occultation and observer B seeing it.

I found a website (no doubt one of many such sites) where occultations of known bright stars have been calculated for all of 2016.  The test procedure would require you and a geographically separated collaborator to choose an occultation that will be visible from both your own location and your collaborator's location.  There is a very promising candidate on October 19, 2016 that will be observable from both Western Europe and Eastern United States, which might be suitable for the purpose.  (In fact, there are four such candidates that night)  The map below illustrates the locations from which the event may be observed.  If one is located within the area bounded by the light blue oval to the west and the white lines north and south, you should be able to see the moon pass between earth and star, and also see the star reappear on the other side of the moon almost an hour later.  Between the blue or red lines north and south and the blue oval to the east, you may or may not see the star go behind the moon, but not see its reappearance due to brightening skies of day obscuring the star.



According to the calculations posted there, the occultation will be seen from New York USA at 2:09 Universal Time, and from Bristol (closest listing I could find to Hereford) almost an hour and a half later at 3:32 Universal Time.  (Notice that those times are all UT, not local time.)  If those times prove accurate, it places quite a strain on the "about 3000 miles" figures, as observer B will watch the moon travel some 22° across the sky after observer A sees the occultation.  In fact, observer A will see the star become visible again on the far side of the moon before it goes behind the moon from observer B's location.
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Offline Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Instead of arguing, fighting and insulting
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2016, 08:58:51 PM »
Shalom and welcome to the forum.
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth"

Scripture, science, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion. Can dumb luck create a smart brain?

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Re: Instead of arguing, fighting and insulting
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2016, 11:35:20 PM »
Hi everyone,

I am new to this website but have been *ahem* 'researching' flat earth on youtube and the net for some time, I always seem to find a lot of people fighting for and against with lots of theory, counter theory, scripture and historical evidence. I have no interest in this whatsoever, I personally believe people will always gravitate towards the worldview that best fits the narrative of their values and life purpose.

Now, I am a pretty practical person who would like to prove one way or the other in an open and repeatable way. I have an open mind and a fairly empty weekend calendar.  The question I put to everyone here is, do any of you actually want to do some experiments to prove/disprove this theory? I am UK based (Hereford) and if your genuinely want to work on this, I have allowed emails to me from this forum.

I do not want to debate or have someone 'show me the light', but I could do with a hand in developing a conclusive test.

Many thanks,

John.

Hi John

I am also new to this forum and have come here for a similar reason it seems. I have found (and conducted) some experiments which have strengthened my opinion that the Earth is a globe and not flat. These three jumped out as being easy to do and rather conclusive.

1) If you have a friend who lives in the southern hemisphere (eg Brasil, Australia, South Africa etc), what you can do is ask them to send you a image of the moon (preferably full) from their perspective. This test works best if they live in a similar time zone as you can then simultaneously take pictures of the moon and compare them. You will find that your friend from the south has a image of the moon which is inverted to yours. I have a couple of friends in Brasil who sent me a picture of the moon and proved this for me. If you have no such contacts its easy enough to fin images online of the moon, especially if searching for "moon behind Sydney opera house" or similar

2)Another good test is to go to a busy harbor. I did this in Rostock in north Germany which was ideal as I could see a great distance and there was a constant stream of ferries. The experiment is to watch the ferries as they leave the harbor. what you will see is that as the ferry gets further away it will begin to disappear from the bottom upwards. This will work best at a harbor where the ferry travels at a straight line away from the harbor so you can clearly see the ferry until it completely disappears.

3)As previously noted you can do the Bedford level experiment (or a similar one). I have not personally done the Bedford level experiment but have done a experiment which has the same principle. You need two or more poles, a marker, a tape measure and a telescope or binoculars. Find a large still pond or canal, say roughly 500m across. obviously this is hard to find, hence why the Bedford canal is used. Place a pole in the water, and make a very clear line on the pole at a convenient height above the water, very accurately measured.  Place a second pole a hundred meters or more away, and again, make a carefully measured clear mark, at the same height above the water surface.  Finally, set up your telescope or binoculars at a similar distance from the first pole, so that you can view both poles in the lens at the same time.  Make sure that the center of the lens is at the same height above the water as the marks on the pole. (If you use three or more poles in the water, then you and the lens can be on dry ground.)  On a flat earth, the marks on the two or more poles would appear in the lens at the same height.  On a curved earth, the pole's lines will not be in line.  The middle line(s) will appear higher than those at the ends.

Re: Instead of arguing, fighting and insulting
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2016, 05:31:33 PM »
3)As previously noted you can do the Bedford level experiment (or a similar one). I have not personally done the Bedford level experiment but have done a experiment which has the same principle. You need two or more poles, a marker, a tape measure and a telescope or binoculars. Find a large still pond or canal, say roughly 500m across. obviously this is hard to find, hence why the Bedford canal is used. Place a pole in the water, and make a very clear line on the pole at a convenient height above the water, very accurately measured.  Place a second pole a hundred meters or more away, and again, make a carefully measured clear mark, at the same height above the water surface.  Finally, set up your telescope or binoculars at a similar distance from the first pole, so that you can view both poles in the lens at the same time.  Make sure that the center of the lens is at the same height above the water as the marks on the pole. (If you use three or more poles in the water, then you and the lens can be on dry ground.)  On a flat earth, the marks on the two or more poles would appear in the lens at the same height.  On a curved earth, the pole's lines will not be in line.  The middle line(s) will appear higher than those at the ends.

Measure carefully. At 500 meters across the difference in height will only be a few millimeters.