[Roundy]

Yeah, spiralling. The news is insane today.

[honk]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/17/donald-trump-coast-guard-gradution-unfairly-treated-president-238505

BAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

[disputeone]

about an Islamic State plot to smuggle a bomb disguised as a laptop aboard a passenger plane.

ISIS have really dropped the ball, seriously... this is their plan (simple and obviously not going to work) and we know all about it?

Back in my day islamic terrorists got the job done....

I also feel like this is being blown completely out of proportion.

I don't really see Russia as an enemy so I guess I don't think it's that bad of an idea.

Putin has been clear he wants to help fight "terrorism" although the US and Israel won't let Russia help for some reason.

Really activates my Almonds.

[disputeone]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/17/donald-trump-coast-guard-gradution-unfairly-treated-president-238505

BAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

[Pete Svarrior]

how so?  i assume you're referring to putin's remark about revealing what was said in the meeting, yeah?

I'm just connecting the dots. If Trump is a super special Russian spy who got super-hacked into the election by Russia, and if he then revealed TOP SEKRIT info to Russia, does it not speak to reason that it's part of the same conspiracy?

For the avoidance of doubt: I think it's absolutely fucking hilarious that Democrats keep floundering around over this kind of shit. I wish someone would write down a thorough summary of all the crazy Illuminati shit that the Dems have claimed to date. It would blow the Republican classics in no time.

[Roundy]

If Trump is innocent he should really stop saying and doing all these things that are making him look guilty.

[Pete Svarrior]

Why? Nobody should care how things make him look. Get an independent investigation going (seems to be on its way) and either find evidence or don't.

[Rama Set]

how so?  i assume you're referring to putin's remark about revealing what was said in the meeting, yeah?

I'm just connecting the dots. If Trump is a super special Russian spy who got super-hacked into the election by Russia, and if he then revealed TOP SEKRIT info to Russia, does it not speak to reason that it's part of the same conspiracy?

For the avoidance of doubt: I think it's absolutely fucking hilarious that Democrats keep floundering around over this kind of shit. I wish someone would write down a thorough summary of all the crazy Illuminati shit that the Dems have claimed to date. It would blow the Republican classics in no time.

My take on the classified info divulging was less about ties to Russia and more about Trump's ineptness surrounding sensitive intelligence and security matters.

[garygreen]

If Trump is a super special Russian spy

who says that trump is a russian spy?

[honk]

I don't think Trump is a spy or anything like that. He almost certainly just finds the idea that Russia helped him get elected to be embarrassing and politically-damaging, but he's gone so far in his efforts to downplay or dismiss it that it's coming across as a cover-up.

[Roundy]

Why? Nobody should care how things make him look.

I mean, he probably should, given how important perception is to politics. In fact given how he's reacting it seems obvious that it does care.

Get an independent investigation going (seems to be on its way) and either find evidence or don't.

I couldn't agree more.

[Lord Dave]

You know, alot of things Trump does would normally be considered political suicide.

I am now thinking that term no longer applies.

[Pete Svarrior]

who says that trump is a russian spy?

Are you suggesting you haven't seen the endless left-wing allegations that Trump was/is colluding with Russia? Or is your contention that the meme-conspiracy merely claims he's a super secret traitor, rather than spy? If it's the latter, I can only explain that I'm being very facetious when describing the meme-conspiracy.

I mean, he probably should, given how important perception is to politics. In fact given how he's reacting it seems obvious that it does care.

So that's another thing I completely don't get. Trump's been raging on Twitter for years. It doesn't matter whether there's a big story to rage about or if Obama just farted, you can bet that @realDonaldTrump will have something angry to say about it. Where is this brand new/unusual reaction of his?

[garygreen]

I'm being very facetious when describing the meme-conspiracy.

for sure; but the narrative from congressional democrats and journalists is not that trump himself is some kind of traitor working at the behest of russian intelligence.  the narrative is that putin is using trump to advance the specific agenda of disrupting our political process and mitigating american influence abroad.

putin's remarks make perfect sense in that context.

[Pete Svarrior]

the narrative from congressional democrats and journalists is not that trump himself is some kind of traitor working at the behest of russian intelligence.

The word "traitor" does indeed get uttered as part of the narrative, but I'll admit that it's a fringe element that ends up taking away from the credibility of the rest of it (or what little of it there may have otherwise been)

the narrative is that putin is using trump to advance the specific agenda of disrupting our political process and mitigating american influence abroad.

putin's remarks make perfect sense in that context.

Does it? It would make perfect sense if he was using the Democrats to disrupt the process. If that was the narrative, sure, I could kind of see it. "Haha, look at how those idiots I put in the opposition are fucking up, it's so funny". But that's not the narrative. The narrative is that the Democrats are the valiant resistance and our only hope against the meme-conspiracy.

[garygreen]

The word "traitor" does indeed get uttered as part of the narrative, but I'll admit that it's a fringe element that ends up taking away from the credibility of the rest of it (or what little of it there may have otherwise been)

yeah i'm still not into the "reasonable arguments become less reasonable when you consider that unreasonable arguments also exist" thing.  it's like me saying that pizzagaters are taking away from paul ryan's credibility. 

the democrats are fucking up

peak 2017

[Pete Svarrior]

yeah i'm still not into the "reasonable arguments become less reasonable when you consider that unreasonable arguments also exist" thing.

There is no reasonable argument here. There are two conspiracy theories: One that Russia illegally controlled the American election, and one that Trump is a super-secret traitor. I choose to laugh about the latter because it's funnier, but both are patently retarded.

[Rama Set]

yeah i'm still not into the "reasonable arguments become less reasonable when you consider that unreasonable arguments also exist" thing.

There is no reasonable argument here. There are two conspiracy theories: One that Russia illegally controlled the American election, and one that Trump is a super-secret traitor. I choose to laugh about the latter because it's funnier, but both are patently retarded.

There is also the theory that Russia influenced the election, which is much more reasonable. It's pretty obvious they tried to do that just from Putin's endorsements, whether or not anything more clandestine happened is speculative to us proles that have no access the l33t intel.

[garygreen]

patently retarded.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?427464-1/soviet-active-measures

yep totally retarded russia would never try to influence our elections or disrupt our political process.  they definitely haven't been using these same tactics for decades.

also what rama said.  the reasonable argument is that russia did what russia does and tried to disrupt our political process.  it worked.  some folks on trump's campaign team may have been knowingly complicit in some of those activities.  we should find out if that's true or not.

[Roundy]

It is not a reach of any kind to say that Trump's actions regarding the Russia situation strongly suggests he has something to hide. If the reports are true that Comey documented incidences where Trump actually tried to convince him to end the investigation I don't see how that's not damning. Maybe Trump was directly involved, maybe he wasn't. But he seems nervous about something, and that something seems to involve what Michael Flynn knows.

I think that right now the mainstream media is mostly  sticking to the facts (which as I've pointed out recently is all they need to damn Trump). It's the Right that is building a narrative that looks increasingly nonsensical and ridiculous to assert.

So that's my take. Did Trump collude with the Russians? Maybe, maybe not; let's see what the investigation shows; certainly he has said and done enough to warrant the consideration, to the extent that it would be irresponsible for the media to not cover developments related to it (the rightwing media's tactic of ignoring the relevance of these developments in favor of spin is even more socially irresponsible than ignoring it outright would be). And it's really not their fault that new developments are coming out multiple times a day.

As an aside, in yet another amusing parallel to Watergate, Nixon also referred to the investigation against him as a witch hunt.