[gorgos]

Goodmorning to everyone. First of all I'm Italian, so I could make some error (sorry). I don't usually pass my time writing topic in forum, but this one really got my attention.
It's just an opinion, I don't want to offend anyone. Let's go.

I read a few opinions of these people who think earth is flat and there's one very particoular: Earth doesn't spin because the speed of rotation (about 1600 km/h) would not let us stay on the ground, our hair would constantly move and other things like this.

Well, science (that according to you is the biggest conspiracy in human history) explains this with Newton's laws. A body that moves with constant speed is subject to no forces on it. Also the atmosphere, considered in the Earth system, does. Then there are effects of wind generated by local effects, but I will not enter in this topic. My explanation is a bit summary, due to my bad english, but here's my point: you're are surely free to believe in what you want, and tell stories about conspiracy and believe that physic laws are part of this conspiracy. The same science from where come all the things we have nowadays: electronic, informatic, industry of everythings.... A numeric control machine can make component of every form for every use (also thing you use everyday like a car) moving robotic arms. And these moviments are calcolated by a processor which calculations are based on speed profiles. And thes speed profiles are based (surprise) on physic laws like Newton's laws.

It's true that remain al lot of things that "my" science has to explain (and that's what makes it interesting) and that everyone can believe in what he wants, but one thing is sure: your theory, even if it was true, is the most useless thing I have ever heard. Imagine for a moment that you would be right.. And so??? Except for unmasking the conspiracy, what benefits would it have??? Really folks, I think that there are most important problems in this world, and we should concentrate about resolving those problem. We might as well believe in magic or the force (I really would like to be a jedi).

Remember, just my opinion. I really hope you have a good and happy life, and when it will be over (that comes for everyone, science or not), I hope you will be satisfied of what you will have devoted your life to.

Sincerely yours
Just a guy who finds these discussion really useless

[rabinoz]

Goodmorning to everyone. First of all I'm Italian, so I could make some error (sorry). I don't usually pass my time writing topic in forum, but this one really got my attention.
It's just an opinion, I don't want to offend anyone. Let's go.
I hope you will be satisfied of what you will have devoted your life to.

Sincerely yours
Just a guy who finds these discussion really useless

I see no replies from any flat earth supporter yet!  I am hardly one to give their answers, as I fully support the rotating globe earth.
Personally I think that most flat earth supporters' problems with the globe are simply because they don't understand the globe.
So many think they can look out and see something that looks wrong, then say it proves the earth is flat!
They don't really appreciate that the rotating globe model took some 2,000 years to develop.  I won't get into history, but some of your countrymen (eg Galileo Galilei - father of observational astronomy) had a lot to do with it.

Now, we'll have to wait for a Flat Earth response to this.

By the way, I won't criticise your English, my Italian is way below my French, and that's limited to something like "Je ne parle pas français."

[Tom Bishop]

Except for unmasking the conspiracy, what benefits would it have???

It would have the benefit of the knowledge of truth.

[Bookish Neptune]

Except for unmasking the conspiracy, what benefits would it have??? Really folks, I think that there are most important problems in this world, and we should concentrate about resolving those problem.

Sincerely yours
Just a guy who finds these discussion really useless

What problems are in the world?

World hunger? Why is there world hunger? Why do millions of children go to bed hungry across the world?

NASA budget for 1 year is 60 Billion USD. For one year!

How many people could that feed? I will tell you. ALL OF THEM!

Unmasking FE isn't just a hobby for some of us. It's a way to help humanity.

Knowing your enemy is the first step to winning your battle.

And this enemy is more cunning than most people can imagine.

I don't know if the earth is flat or round. What I do know is that NASA is fraudulent, man has never been to space, and nearly everything in the scientific community is bunk and man doesn't need it.

I'd say that your fellow man being decieved his entire life is something to fight for.

Humanity. That's what I fight for.

But since as you say "these discussions are useless", there isn't much I can offer you, nor anyone else.

[Woody]

Except for unmasking the conspiracy, what benefits would it have???

It would have the benefit of the knowledge of truth.

Truth stands up to scrutiny.  Look at the answer that are given in the wiki and the questions asked here.  Do any hold up within one FE model? Can you offer any proof?  Can your proof stand up to review and validation?

A look at the Bishop Experiment suggest the conclusions from it maybe flawed due to a possible error in the calculation of the distance.  Have you taken your observations and offered them up for peer review?  Including peers in the RE camp? 

The explaining away of the hull down effect by saying it is a matter of perspective is only partial truth.  I have witnessed it many times as explained by Rowbotham and with simple observation able to determine why.  It is generally with smaller ships already in my field of view taking into account how far I should be able to see them taking the curvature into account.  I have also witnessed many times a ship approach and the first thing I see is the higher parts of the ship.  Viewed through my binoculars I can then see a little more of the ship than I could with the naked eye.  Still not the whole ship and I can watch through the binoculars that ship rise over the horizon.  Prove me wrong.  It would be very simple to create a reproducible experiment that can stand up to scrutiny to offer proof.  It is just a simple observation that should put you on the road to recognition for the discovery and have others begin looking for answers.
 
What one model successfully explains seasons,shadows different lengths at different times a year, solar and lunar eclipses, tides, volcanoes, the force holding us on the earth, celestial navigation, why certain things we see in the sky like mars appear to move in different directions, why can we observe planets with moons orbiting them, phases of the moon, why can I only see certain constellations a certain distance from the equator, time zones, why observers can see objects at greater distances at higher elevations, a Fourcault pendulum can be used to get a good estimate of latitude....

Is there an single FE model that explains the above?  I am not too familiar with them all. The ones I have seen seem to require moving things around within that one model to explain what we can observe
in the world around us and looking up to the stars above.  If I am wrong and one FE model does answer all these questions without the need to move things to make one thing work and another thing not please could you guide me to it? 

The RE model answers these questions by building on a foundation of over 2,000 years of mankind acquiring knowledge.  Why throughout history does this knowledge gained continue to reinforce that we are living on spherical body, orbited by a moon, which both orbit a sun along with other planets and moon? Why is it so hard for your truth to refute that it is wrong?  If you think it is not why can you not offer something as simple as a experiment like when Eratosthenes was able to calculate the circumference of the Earth?  I can reproduce it easily, it supports and is supported by other evidence, and it fits neatly in the puzzle we are trying to put together. 

[andruszkow]

Except for unmasking the conspiracy, what benefits would it have??? Really folks, I think that there are most important problems in this world, and we should concentrate about resolving those problem.

Sincerely yours
Just a guy who finds these discussion really useless

What problems are in the world?

World hunger? Why is there world hunger? Why do millions of children go to bed hungry across the world?

NASA budget for 1 year is 60 Billion USD. For one year!

How many people could that feed? I will tell you. ALL OF THEM!

Unmasking FE isn't just a hobby for some of us. It's a way to help humanity.

Knowing your enemy is the first step to winning your battle.

And this enemy is more cunning than most people can imagine.

I don't know if the earth is flat or round. What I do know is that NASA is fraudulent, man has never been to space, and nearly everything in the scientific community is bunk and man doesn't need it.

I'd say that your fellow man being decieved his entire life is something to fight for.

Humanity. That's what I fight for.

But since as you say "these discussions are useless", there isn't much I can offer you, nor anyone else.

So science, research and exploration is better to kill off for the sake of humanity?

"Unmasking FE isn't just a hobby for some of us. It's a way to help humanity." - Are you really suggesting, that the American war machine (budget, 1000+ billion dollars), including everything that comes with it (creating hungry people, for instance) is better left alone, and the research and exploration budget for NASA are the best to kill off?

What does that have to do with humanity? To me, it seems more like nurturing personal interests.

[Wezzoid]

You won't get any honest answers from this lot. They will lead you a merry dance picking holes in your semantics and avoiding direct answers. If you really challenge them they will ask you to personally demonstrate the whole body of science to them as its convenient to play the zetetic card and insist that nothing they cannot see personally can be real, despite using wild conjecture themselves. It's hopeless. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

[rabinoz]

Except for unmasking the conspiracy, what benefits would it have??? Really folks, I think that there are most important problems in this world, and we should concentrate about resolving those problem.

Sincerely yours
Just a guy who finds these discussion really useless

What problems are in the world?
World hunger? Why is there world hunger? Why do millions of children go to bed hungry across the world?
NASA budget for 1 year is 60 Billion USD. For one year!
How many people could that feed? I will tell you. ALL OF THEM!
Unmasking FE isn't just a hobby for some of us. It's a way to help humanity.
Knowing your enemy is the first step to winning your battle.
And this enemy is more cunning than most people can imagine.
I don't know if the earth is flat or round. What I do know is that NASA is fraudulent, man has never been to space, and nearly everything in the scientific community is bunk and man doesn't need it.
I'd say that your fellow man being decieved his entire life is something to fight for.
Humanity. That's what I fight for.
But since as you say "these discussions are useless", there isn't much I can offer you, nor anyone else.

While not questioning the problems of world hunger, why target NASA in particular?  Also in what year was the NASA budget 60 Billion USD? Certainly not a recent year!

Firstly, take a look at the 2016 US budget allocations.
The proposed 2016 budget allocations for the US are:

Total Budget	$US3,500.0 Billion
NASA	$US19.3 Billion	about 7% of the total science budget
Defense	$US585.0 Billion

I can't vouch for the detail of this, but the figures are close.

If money is needed for foreign assistance, a 10% reduction in the defence budget would nett much more than scrapping NASA completely!

Yes, I know full well why you denounce NASA's allocation so vehemently, and not Defence, nor Science is that you regard NASA as fraudulent.  This the opinion of only a minority, though probably not limited to FE believers.

[Bookish Neptune]

Except for unmasking the conspiracy, what benefits would it have??? Really folks, I think that there are most important problems in this world, and we should concentrate about resolving those problem.

Sincerely yours
Just a guy who finds these discussion really useless

What problems are in the world?
World hunger? Why is there world hunger? Why do millions of children go to bed hungry across the world?
NASA budget for 1 year is 60 Billion USD. For one year!
How many people could that feed? I will tell you. ALL OF THEM!
Unmasking FE isn't just a hobby for some of us. It's a way to help humanity.
Knowing your enemy is the first step to winning your battle.
And this enemy is more cunning than most people can imagine.
I don't know if the earth is flat or round. What I do know is that NASA is fraudulent, man has never been to space, and nearly everything in the scientific community is bunk and man doesn't need it.
I'd say that your fellow man being decieved his entire life is something to fight for.
Humanity. That's what I fight for.
But since as you say "these discussions are useless", there isn't much I can offer you, nor anyone else.

While not questioning the problems of world hunger, why target NASA in particular?  Also in what year was the NASA budget 60 Billion USD? Certainly not a recent year!

Firstly, take a look at the 2016 US budget allocations.
The proposed 2016 budget allocations for the US are:

Total Budget	$US3,500.0 Billion
NASA	$US19.3 Billion	about 7% of the total science budget
Defense	$US585.0 Billion

I can't vouch for the detail of this, but the figures are close.

If money is needed for foreign assistance, a 10% reduction in the defence budget would nett much more than scrapping NASA completely!

Yes, I know full well why you denounce NASA's allocation so vehemently, and not Defence, nor Science is that you regard NASA as fraudulent.  This the opinion of only a minority, though probably not limited to FE believers.

Typo I meant 16 Billion not 60.

And my point is that NASA is a complete fraud, a theft of tax payers dollars, and that money could be used to feed everyone who is in need.

If you love NASA and think that is cool then that is your prerogative. I am exposing the lies any chance I can get.

[Bookish Neptune]

Except for unmasking the conspiracy, what benefits would it have??? Really folks, I think that there are most important problems in this world, and we should concentrate about resolving those problem.

Sincerely yours
Just a guy who finds these discussion really useless

What problems are in the world?

World hunger? Why is there world hunger? Why do millions of children go to bed hungry across the world?

NASA budget for 1 year is 60 Billion USD. For one year!

How many people could that feed? I will tell you. ALL OF THEM!

Unmasking FE isn't just a hobby for some of us. It's a way to help humanity.

Knowing your enemy is the first step to winning your battle.

And this enemy is more cunning than most people can imagine.

I don't know if the earth is flat or round. What I do know is that NASA is fraudulent, man has never been to space, and nearly everything in the scientific community is bunk and man doesn't need it.

I'd say that your fellow man being decieved his entire life is something to fight for.

Humanity. That's what I fight for.

But since as you say "these discussions are useless", there isn't much I can offer you, nor anyone else.

So science, research and exploration is better to kill off for the sake of humanity?

"Unmasking FE isn't just a hobby for some of us. It's a way to help humanity." - Are you really suggesting, that the American war machine (budget, 1000+ billion dollars), including everything that comes with it (creating hungry people, for instance) is better left alone, and the research and exploration budget for NASA are the best to kill off?

What does that have to do with humanity? To me, it seems more like nurturing personal interests.

I don't believe that NASA is providing any science at all when it comes to space exploration.

I don't believe they have ever put a man into space, nor do I believe they ever put a rocket into space.

And yes both the US military and NASA budget should be scrapped. And the entire tax system.

What else would you like to know?

[andruszkow]

Except for unmasking the conspiracy, what benefits would it have??? Really folks, I think that there are most important problems in this world, and we should concentrate about resolving those problem.

Sincerely yours
Just a guy who finds these discussion really useless

What problems are in the world?
World hunger? Why is there world hunger? Why do millions of children go to bed hungry across the world?
NASA budget for 1 year is 60 Billion USD. For one year!
How many people could that feed? I will tell you. ALL OF THEM!
Unmasking FE isn't just a hobby for some of us. It's a way to help humanity.
Knowing your enemy is the first step to winning your battle.
And this enemy is more cunning than most people can imagine.
I don't know if the earth is flat or round. What I do know is that NASA is fraudulent, man has never been to space, and nearly everything in the scientific community is bunk and man doesn't need it.
I'd say that your fellow man being decieved his entire life is something to fight for.
Humanity. That's what I fight for.
But since as you say "these discussions are useless", there isn't much I can offer you, nor anyone else.

While not questioning the problems of world hunger, why target NASA in particular?  Also in what year was the NASA budget 60 Billion USD? Certainly not a recent year!

Firstly, take a look at the 2016 US budget allocations.
The proposed 2016 budget allocations for the US are:

Total Budget	$US3,500.0 Billion
NASA	$US19.3 Billion	about 7% of the total science budget
Defense	$US585.0 Billion

I can't vouch for the detail of this, but the figures are close.

If money is needed for foreign assistance, a 10% reduction in the defence budget would nett much more than scrapping NASA completely!

Yes, I know full well why you denounce NASA's allocation so vehemently, and not Defence, nor Science is that you regard NASA as fraudulent.  This the opinion of only a minority, though probably not limited to FE believers.

Typo I meant 16 Billion not 60.

And my point is that NASA is a complete fraud, a theft of tax payers dollars, and that money could be used to feed everyone who is in need.

If you love NASA and think that is cool then that is your prerogative. I am exposing the lies any chance I can get.

Except you haven't exposed a single lie. You make wild accusations based on a hunch, due to limitations in your understanding of the reality that surrounds you, only caused by the fact that your reality is based on a theory, and not the other way around.

Space exploration and research in this field in general has yielded a wide variety of general-purpose machinery, clothing, medicine, precision equipment for the purposes of surgery etc. As said earlier, your mistrust is built on special interest, not reality, very comparable to religion.

[rabinoz]

Typo I meant 16 Billion not 60.
And my point is that NASA is a complete fraud, a theft of tax payers dollars, and that money could be used to feed everyone who is in need.
If you love NASA and think that is cool then that is your prerogative. I am exposing the lies any chance I can get.

(funny "typo" neither digit is correct? 60 for 16?)
Really aren't we being a bit one-sided. You so kindly say "that is your prerogative", but you claim that you know that "NASA is a complete fraud, a theft of tax payers dollars".

I have never claimed to "love NASA", but it seems suspect to me that ONE OF THE the organisations that provide absolute proof that your "core belief" is wrong is branded a fraud, yet for example the US military that spends 30 times NASA's budget gets away unscathed!  As I said before ask for a few droppings from the military's table might get you further.

Any organisation or individual that claims to know "THE TRUTH" is in my book immediately suspect!
I suppose that is a bit of a spin off of the "scientific method" that you denounce so vehemently.

By the way amateur and professional astronomers prove you wrong every day, but you (at least FE supporters in general) simply claim we can't learn anything from those little lights in the sky - don't you believe it, the answer might be in the stars!

In addition to satellite based surveying of everything from weather mapping, ocean temperature measurement, crop and forest monitoring and numerous other areas is proving invaluable.  You might deny it, but you form a tiny minority!