The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Investigations => Topic started by: J-Man on September 14, 2020, 12:00:19 AM

Title: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: J-Man on September 14, 2020, 12:00:19 AM
Abort, abort, abort,    missile isn't going sideways but straight up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDvtTjBDxkw
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: AATW on September 14, 2020, 05:16:06 PM
So...you think that hit the dome?
And it just bounced off and then only exploded when it hit the ground?
Is that what you are going with?
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Iceman on September 14, 2020, 06:17:51 PM
"That, I don't think was good."

Expert analysis!
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: DuncanDoenitz on September 15, 2020, 08:15:11 AM
Why the photo of Musk?  Are you implying that it bounced off his orbiting Tesla? 

Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Tumeni on September 15, 2020, 09:01:51 AM
Why the photo of Musk?  Are you implying that it bounced off his orbiting Tesla?

It's not his video. The photo is the avatar for the person who uploaded it to YouTube.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Tumeni on September 15, 2020, 09:34:56 AM
... and, for what it's worth, a climbing rocket, which is also moving away from the observer, whether viewed on a flat or globe earth, will ALWAYS look as though it is descending toward the ground at some point in its upward trajectory. Geometry called, and it said so.

In the case of launches Eastward from Cape Canaveral, where the rocket always moves out to sea, away from land-based observers, this is always the viewpoint.

It's unclear what the viewpoint on this Astra one was.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: J-Man on September 15, 2020, 03:18:01 PM
... and, for what it's worth, a climbing rocket, which is also moving away from the observer, whether viewed on a flat or globe earth, will ALWAYS look as though it is descending toward the ground at some point in its upward trajectory. Geometry called, and it said so.

In the case of launches Eastward from Cape Canaveral, where the rocket always moves out to sea, away from land-based observers, this is always the viewpoint.

It's unclear what the viewpoint on this Astra one was.

Tumeni give us hocus pocus speak. To get a permit for rockets you must not encroach on the dome, ie tilt it baby and go sideways. Here's a prime recent example of a Mars rocket. lmao @ 2:40 seconds into launch, it's trajectory is already only 42 miles high but get this 81 miles sideways or downrange from launch. At 3:00 minutes into launch, it's now only 63 miles high but a whooping 137 miles sideways. Think about the trajectory to achieve that ?  SIDEWAYS ... This is like shooting a bullet at a 45 degree angle for max distance. Now cut away to cartoon land on separation. I love NASA, so silly fooling the lemmings.  Kerplunk  in da ocean !!!

Astra was heading straight up by mistake obviously and aborted, we see the rocket crash almost where it took off. Big NO NO......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfw9tlupI_w
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: J-Man on September 15, 2020, 03:33:49 PM
Here's a great video of rockets hitting the dome !!!   You ain't leaving boys and girls, deal with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qab8VOBhsJ0
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: JSS on September 15, 2020, 04:41:55 PM
... and, for what it's worth, a climbing rocket, which is also moving away from the observer, whether viewed on a flat or globe earth, will ALWAYS look as though it is descending toward the ground at some point in its upward trajectory. Geometry called, and it said so.

In the case of launches Eastward from Cape Canaveral, where the rocket always moves out to sea, away from land-based observers, this is always the viewpoint.

It's unclear what the viewpoint on this Astra one was.

Tumeni give us hocus pocus speak. To get a permit for rockets you must not encroach on the dome, ie tilt it baby and go sideways. Here's a prime recent example of a Mars rocket. lmao @ 2:40 seconds into launch, it's trajectory is already only 42 miles high but get this 81 miles sideways or downrange from launch. At 3:00 minutes into launch, it's now only 63 miles high but a whooping 137 miles sideways. Think about the trajectory to achieve that ?  SIDEWAYS ... This is like shooting a bullet at a 45 degree angle for max distance. Now cut away to cartoon land on separation. I love NASA, so silly fooling the lemmings.  Kerplunk  in da ocean !!!

That's simply how orbital mechanics work.

Getting a rocket high enough is only half the equation, it has to be moving fast enough to get into a stable orbit. Most of the fuel is spent getting the rocket moving sideways fast enough for a stable rocket. If it simply went straight up, as soon as the engine shut off it would fall right back down.

Any rocket that wants to achieve orbit is going to be spending most of it's time going sideways from our perspective.

As for a bullet, shooting it at about 30 degrees is going to get you maximum distance, so you're not too far off.  It would be 45 if there was no air resistance.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: TomInAustin on September 15, 2020, 05:11:40 PM
... and, for what it's worth, a climbing rocket, which is also moving away from the observer, whether viewed on a flat or globe earth, will ALWAYS look as though it is descending toward the ground at some point in its upward trajectory. Geometry called, and it said so.

In the case of launches Eastward from Cape Canaveral, where the rocket always moves out to sea, away from land-based observers, this is always the viewpoint.

It's unclear what the viewpoint on this Astra one was.

Tumeni give us hocus pocus speak. To get a permit for rockets you must not encroach on the dome, ie tilt it baby and go sideways. Here's a prime recent example of a Mars rocket. lmao @ 2:40 seconds into launch, it's trajectory is already only 42 miles high but get this 81 miles sideways or downrange from launch. At 3:00 minutes into launch, it's now only 63 miles high but a whooping 137 miles sideways. Think about the trajectory to achieve that ?  SIDEWAYS ... This is like shooting a bullet at a 45 degree angle for max distance. Now cut away to cartoon land on separation. I love NASA, so silly fooling the lemmings.  Kerplunk  in da ocean !!!

That's simply how orbital mechanics work.

Getting a rocket high enough is only half the equation, it has to be moving fast enough to get into a stable orbit. Most of the fuel is spent getting the rocket moving sideways fast enough for a stable rocket. If it simply went straight up, as soon as the engine shut off it would fall right back down.

Any rocket that wants to achieve orbit is going to be spending most of it's time going sideways from our perspective.

As for a bullet, shooting it at about 30 degrees is going to get you maximum distance, so you're not too far off.  It would be 45 if there was no air resistance.

You beat me to it.   

Rockets go near verticle long enough to get high enough to be in thin air for much less drag before they pitch over for horizontal speed. 

There is a great documentary on Netflix about the Saturn 5 (or is it Amazon?).    When Kennedy made his man on the moon speech NASA had no frickin idea how to make it happen, they literally had to invent every single process.   Buzz Aldrin did his doctorial work at MIT on orbital maneuvers.  No wonder he punches people.

It's sad that one of the greatest achievements of mankind is cast-off so easily by conspiracy fools.

Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: DuncanDoenitz on September 15, 2020, 05:55:55 PM
J-Man:  "Tumeni give us hocus pocus speak. To get a permit for rockets you must not encroach on the dome, ....."   

Can you apply for this permit on-line, or do you have to go to the Space Police office? 
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: J-Man on September 15, 2020, 06:44:34 PM
... and, for what it's worth, a climbing rocket, which is also moving away from the observer, whether viewed on a flat or globe earth, will ALWAYS look as though it is descending toward the ground at some point in its upward trajectory. Geometry called, and it said so.

In the case of launches Eastward from Cape Canaveral, where the rocket always moves out to sea, away from land-based observers, this is always the viewpoint.

It's unclear what the viewpoint on this Astra one was.

Tumeni give us hocus pocus speak. To get a permit for rockets you must not encroach on the dome, ie tilt it baby and go sideways. Here's a prime recent example of a Mars rocket. lmao @ 2:40 seconds into launch, it's trajectory is already only 42 miles high but get this 81 miles sideways or downrange from launch. At 3:00 minutes into launch, it's now only 63 miles high but a whooping 137 miles sideways. Think about the trajectory to achieve that ?  SIDEWAYS ... This is like shooting a bullet at a 45 degree angle for max distance. Now cut away to cartoon land on separation. I love NASA, so silly fooling the lemmings.  Kerplunk  in da ocean !!!

That's simply how orbital mechanics work.

Getting a rocket high enough is only half the equation, it has to be moving fast enough to get into a stable orbit. Most of the fuel is spent getting the rocket moving sideways fast enough for a stable rocket. If it simply went straight up, as soon as the engine shut off it would fall right back down.

Any rocket that wants to achieve orbit is going to be spending most of it's time going sideways from our perspective.

As for a bullet, shooting it at about 30 degrees is going to get you maximum distance, so you're not too far off.  It would be 45 if there was no air resistance.

Pure hockey puck, the sooner you reach thinner air, the faster one can go on less fuel. Plenty of time to tip sideways but we must do the big fake out and get out of vision for the kerplunk in da ocean.  Good try !!!
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Tumeni on September 15, 2020, 10:39:40 PM
Here's a prime recent example of a Mars rocket.

It wasn't a "Mars rocket", just a regular satellite launch.

"Think about the trajectory to achieve that ?"

What, specifically, do you see as the problem? Draw it out on graph paper, distance and altitude vs time, and show us what you think is wrong

Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: AATW on September 16, 2020, 07:47:09 AM
Pure hockey puck, the sooner you reach thinner air, the faster one can go on less fuel. Plenty of time to tip sideways but we must do the big fake out and get out of vision for the kerplunk in da ocean.  Good try !!!
Can you show us some video or witness testimony of a space shuttle going "kerplunk in da ocean"? Where did the shuttles go for the days when they were "in space"?
Surely there's be some witness or whistle blower who saw them?

Your video above - the first 2 are really hard to make out. The 3rd one was a despinner, there's even a caption in the video that says that. So where did it hit the dome? Any why would hitting a dome cause it to stop spinning rather than blow up? Really confused about what you think happened in that one. I didn't watch further yet.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Tumeni on September 16, 2020, 11:04:11 AM
So ... is the "dome" below the clouds?

For in other video, it doesn't look as though the vehicle reaches the cloud base....
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: DuncanDoenitz on September 16, 2020, 11:36:48 AM
Am I missing something here? 

"Oh-oh failure" occurs 30 seconds after launch, impact at 60 seconds; 30 seconds to descend. 

The vehicle tumbles to earth, lets give you the benefit and say no aerodynamic drag, accelerating at 9.81 m/s/s (gravity, or UA, as you will).  Lets give you some more benefit and say "oh-oh failure" occured at 20 seconds (speed of sound to hear the impact) gives us 40 seconds of descent, at 9.81 m/s/s. 

Using a standard acceleration formula with this time and acceleration gives us a dome-impact altitude of less than 26,000 feet. 

How does this fit with typical airliner altitudes of 30,000 to 40,000 feet? 

Is that why airliners go mainly "sideways" and less "up"? 

Do airliners also need a permit from the Space Police? 
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: JSS on September 16, 2020, 11:48:59 AM
... and, for what it's worth, a climbing rocket, which is also moving away from the observer, whether viewed on a flat or globe earth, will ALWAYS look as though it is descending toward the ground at some point in its upward trajectory. Geometry called, and it said so.

In the case of launches Eastward from Cape Canaveral, where the rocket always moves out to sea, away from land-based observers, this is always the viewpoint.

It's unclear what the viewpoint on this Astra one was.

Tumeni give us hocus pocus speak. To get a permit for rockets you must not encroach on the dome, ie tilt it baby and go sideways. Here's a prime recent example of a Mars rocket. lmao @ 2:40 seconds into launch, it's trajectory is already only 42 miles high but get this 81 miles sideways or downrange from launch. At 3:00 minutes into launch, it's now only 63 miles high but a whooping 137 miles sideways. Think about the trajectory to achieve that ?  SIDEWAYS ... This is like shooting a bullet at a 45 degree angle for max distance. Now cut away to cartoon land on separation. I love NASA, so silly fooling the lemmings.  Kerplunk  in da ocean !!!

That's simply how orbital mechanics work.

Getting a rocket high enough is only half the equation, it has to be moving fast enough to get into a stable orbit. Most of the fuel is spent getting the rocket moving sideways fast enough for a stable rocket. If it simply went straight up, as soon as the engine shut off it would fall right back down.

Any rocket that wants to achieve orbit is going to be spending most of it's time going sideways from our perspective.

As for a bullet, shooting it at about 30 degrees is going to get you maximum distance, so you're not too far off.  It would be 45 if there was no air resistance.

Pure hockey puck, the sooner you reach thinner air, the faster one can go on less fuel. Plenty of time to tip sideways but we must do the big fake out and get out of vision for the kerplunk in da ocean.  Good try !!!

The reason rockets vanish is simply because on a round Earth you will loose sight of it very quickly as it begins moving sideways to achieve orbit. If it went straight up, it would just fall back down when the rocket shut off.

Nothing conspiratorial about that, it's just how orbits work.

(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Thomas_Roberts24/publication/332211453/figure/fig1/AS:744045533999105@1554405687483/Comparing-Sub-Orbital-and-Orbital-Trajectories-Reaching-orbit-requires-both-a-sufficient.jpg)

Comparing Sub-Orbital and Orbital Trajectories. Reaching orbit requires both a sufficient altitude and horizontal velocity. Launches that follow a flight path similar to Trajectory A have sufficient horizontal velocity but insufficient altitude. Those that resemble Trajectory B have sufficient altitude but insufficient horizontal velocity. Both Trajectory A and B represent sub-orbital trajectories. A launch that resembles Trajectory C has both sufficient altitude and horizontal velocity and, therefore, reaches orbit.

From https://www.researchgate.net/publication/332211453_Spaceports_of_the_World
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Jay Seneca on October 12, 2020, 03:52:39 PM
That's simply how orbital mechanics work.

Getting a rocket high enough is only half the equation, it has to be moving fast enough to get into a stable orbit. Most of the fuel is spent getting the rocket moving sideways fast enough for a stable rocket. If it simply went straight up, as soon as the engine shut off it would fall right back down.

Any rocket that wants to achieve orbit is going to be spending most of it's time going sideways from our perspective.

As for a bullet, shooting it at about 30 degrees is going to get you maximum distance, so you're not too far off.  It would be 45 if there was no air resistance.
[/quote]


So what would be the flight path for getting a Geosynchronous satellite into orbit?
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: JSS on October 12, 2020, 05:15:02 PM
So what would be the flight path for getting a Geosynchronous satellite into orbit?

Same setup as path C in this image.

(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Thomas_Roberts24/publication/332211453/figure/fig1/AS:744045533999105@1554405687483/Comparing-Sub-Orbital-and-Orbital-Trajectories-Reaching-orbit-requires-both-a-sufficient.jpg)

The view is looking down from the North Pole, so the rocket orbits the Earth in the same direction as it rotates.

What makes a satellite Geosynchronous is that it orbits in the same direction as the Earth and takes exactly 24 hours to make one orbit. That keeps it positioned over the same spot, so from our perspective it doesn't move.

The faster an object moves the further out it's orbit, so you just give a satellite a very specific speed and get the orbital time to be whatever you want.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Jay Seneca on October 12, 2020, 06:00:54 PM
So what would be the flight path for getting a Geosynchronous satellite into orbit?

Same setup as path C in this image.

(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Thomas_Roberts24/publication/332211453/figure/fig1/AS:744045533999105@1554405687483/Comparing-Sub-Orbital-and-Orbital-Trajectories-Reaching-orbit-requires-both-a-sufficient.jpg)

The view is looking down from the North Pole, so the rocket orbits the Earth in the same direction as it rotates.

What makes a satellite Geosynchronous is that it orbits in the same direction as the Earth and takes exactly 24 hours to make one orbit. That keeps it positioned over the same spot, so from our perspective it doesn't move.

The faster an object moves the further out it's orbit, so you just give a satellite a very specific speed and get the orbital time to be whatever you want.

So is the satellite shot straight up in the air. Since the satellite stays at the same location above Earth?
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: JSS on October 12, 2020, 06:08:57 PM
So what would be the flight path for getting a Geosynchronous satellite into orbit?

Same setup as path C in this image.

(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Thomas_Roberts24/publication/332211453/figure/fig1/AS:744045533999105@1554405687483/Comparing-Sub-Orbital-and-Orbital-Trajectories-Reaching-orbit-requires-both-a-sufficient.jpg)

The view is looking down from the North Pole, so the rocket orbits the Earth in the same direction as it rotates.

What makes a satellite Geosynchronous is that it orbits in the same direction as the Earth and takes exactly 24 hours to make one orbit. That keeps it positioned over the same spot, so from our perspective it doesn't move.

The faster an object moves the further out it's orbit, so you just give a satellite a very specific speed and get the orbital time to be whatever you want.

So is the satellite shot straight up in the air. Since the satellite stays at the same location above Earth?

No, they use path C.  The satellite is moving around the Earth, but the Earth is also spinning.  A geo satellite simply makes sure the orbital period is the same as one day.

It's like if you do the bucket on a rope experiment, swinging it around you.  From your point of view the bucket is always right in front of you, but that's because it is spitting at the same period that you are.  To someone standing to the side, they see you and the bucket spinning around.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Jay Seneca on October 12, 2020, 06:12:34 PM
So what would be the flight path for getting a Geosynchronous satellite into orbit?

Same setup as path C in this image.

(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Thomas_Roberts24/publication/332211453/figure/fig1/AS:744045533999105@1554405687483/Comparing-Sub-Orbital-and-Orbital-Trajectories-Reaching-orbit-requires-both-a-sufficient.jpg)

The view is looking down from the North Pole, so the rocket orbits the Earth in the same direction as it rotates.

What makes a satellite Geosynchronous is that it orbits in the same direction as the Earth and takes exactly 24 hours to make one orbit. That keeps it positioned over the same spot, so from our perspective it doesn't move.

The faster an object moves the further out it's orbit, so you just give a satellite a very specific speed and get the orbital time to be whatever you want.

So is the satellite shot straight up in the air. Since the satellite stays at the same location above Earth?

No, they use path C.  The satellite is moving around the Earth, but the Earth is also spinning.  A geo satellite simply makes sure the orbital period is the same as one day.

It's like if you do the bucket on a rope experiment, swinging it around you.  From your point of view the bucket is always right in front of you, but that's because it is spitting at the same period that you are.  To someone standing to the side, they see you and the bucket spinning around.


So if I want something to orbit directly above my head and stay above that same spot. I launch it at a 45 degree angle?
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Tumeni on October 13, 2020, 08:58:17 AM
So if I want something to orbit directly above my head and stay above that same spot. I launch it at a 45 degree angle?

The spot where you want it to be will, 99.99% of the time, NOT be above the launch site. So yes, you have to deviate from the area above the launch site, at the very least. And that's path C.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: GreatATuin on October 13, 2020, 10:38:05 AM
Make that 100%: a geostationary orbit is only possible over the Equator, and as far as I know there is no launch site on the Equator (the closest is probably Kourou at 5 degrees north).
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Jay Seneca on October 13, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
So if I want something to orbit directly above my head and stay above that same spot. I launch it at a 45 degree angle?

The spot where you want it to be will, 99.99% of the time, NOT be above the launch site. So yes, you have to deviate from the area above the launch site, at the very least. And that's path C.

Being that satellites weight up to 6tons it will need as much or more fuel as a space shuttle going to space since it is heavier than most space capsules ever used. Then it needs fuel to slam on the breaks to travel the same speed as earths spin.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: JSS on October 13, 2020, 03:17:21 PM
So if I want something to orbit directly above my head and stay above that same spot. I launch it at a 45 degree angle?

The spot where you want it to be will, 99.99% of the time, NOT be above the launch site. So yes, you have to deviate from the area above the launch site, at the very least. And that's path C.

Being that satellites weight up to 6tons it will need as much or more fuel as a space shuttle going to space since it is heavier than most space capsules ever used. Then it needs fuel to slam on the breaks to travel the same speed as earths spin.

It doesn't need any fuel to 'slam on the breaks' once it reaches orbit.

Think of it like merging onto the highway.  When you start, all the cars are going much faster and you have to accelerate and use fuel to reach them.  But once you match speed you don't have to hit the breaks to stop.

Same for satellites. The fuel is needed to boost them to the proper altitude, and to get to the correct speed.  After that it will stay in it's orbit without the need for any more massive boosting or thrust.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Tumeni on October 13, 2020, 04:07:17 PM
Being that satellites weight up to 6tons it will need as much or more fuel as a space shuttle going to space since it is heavier than most space capsules ever used. Then it needs fuel to slam on the breaks to travel the same speed as earths spin.

No, the shuttle weighed 165,000 pounds when empty, or 73.6 tons. A satellite weighing 6 tons is roughly one twelfth of this, and will therefore require approx one-twelfth of the thrust, approximating to a fuel requirement of one twelfth.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Jay Seneca on October 13, 2020, 05:46:26 PM
Being that satellites weight up to 6tons it will need as much or more fuel as a space shuttle going to space since it is heavier than most space capsules ever used. Then it needs fuel to slam on the breaks to travel the same speed as earths spin.

No, the shuttle weighed 165,000 pounds when empty, or 73.6 tons. A satellite weighing 6 tons is roughly one twelfth of this, and will therefore require approx one-twelfth of the thrust, approximating to a fuel requirement of one twelfth.

The capsule was serviced by an aft-facing conical equipment module 2.25 meters (7.4 ft) long by 2.43 meters (8.0 ft), weighing 2,270 kilograms (5,000 lb) containing nitrogen and oxygen breathing gasses, batteries, fuel, attitude control thrusters, and the retrorocket. It could support flights as long as ten days.
Wikipedia › wiki › Space_capsule
Space capsule - Wikipedia
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Jay Seneca on October 13, 2020, 06:07:59 PM

It doesn't need any fuel to 'slam on the breaks' once it reaches orbit.

Think of it like merging onto the highway.  When you start, all the cars are going much faster and you have to accelerate and use fuel to reach them.  But once you match speed you don't have to hit the breaks to stop.

Same for satellites. The fuel is needed to boost them to the proper altitude, and to get to the correct speed.  After that it will stay in it's orbit without the need for any more massive boosting or thrust.
[/quote]

But if I’m trying to park across the street I’ll drive straight across.  No need to merge.

And I’m having a hard time understanding.  It takes rockets/satellites to go 17,000mph to get into orbit.  Once there some stay at that speed without any other boosting or thrusting and others decline to the speed of the Earth 1,000mph or directly over the same surface spot.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Jay Seneca on October 13, 2020, 06:23:43 PM

No, the shuttle weighed 165,000 pounds when empty, or 73.6 tons. A satellite weighing 6 tons is roughly one twelfth of this, and will therefore require approx one-twelfth of the thrust, approximating to a fuel requirement of one twelfth.
[/quote]

Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: JSS on October 13, 2020, 06:31:27 PM

It doesn't need any fuel to 'slam on the breaks' once it reaches orbit.

Think of it like merging onto the highway.  When you start, all the cars are going much faster and you have to accelerate and use fuel to reach them.  But once you match speed you don't have to hit the breaks to stop.

Same for satellites. The fuel is needed to boost them to the proper altitude, and to get to the correct speed.  After that it will stay in it's orbit without the need for any more massive boosting or thrust.

But if I’m trying to park across the street I’ll drive straight across.  No need to merge.

And I’m having a hard time understanding.  It takes rockets/satellites to go 17,000mph to get into orbit.  Once there some stay at that speed without any other boosting or thrusting and others decline to the speed of the Earth 1,000mph or directly over the same surface spot.
[/quote]

They need to go 70,000 mph to get into that specific orbit. More or less for higher or lower ones.

Satellites don't stop once they reach orbit, they keep going. Constantly circling the Earth.

Lets try an example with something spinning.  If you want to get on a merry-go-round you have to start running until you match the speed, then you can hop on.  You don't need to break or slow down or keep running, you can just sit there and ride the ride.  It doesn't matter how fast you were moving before, or how fast you are moving now, all that matters is you matched speed.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Tumeni on October 13, 2020, 07:39:17 PM
No, the shuttle weighed 165,000 pounds when empty, or 73.6 tons. A satellite weighing 6 tons is roughly one twelfth of this, and will therefore require approx one-twelfth of the thrust, approximating to a fuel requirement of one twelfth.

Why are you adding a graphic of an Apollo Command Module, and quoting from a Wiki about Vostok, when we're talking about the Shuttle? You know, the Space Shuttle? The one that came along AFTER Apollo?
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Jay Seneca on October 14, 2020, 01:32:02 AM
No, the shuttle weighed 165,000 pounds when empty, or 73.6 tons. A satellite weighing 6 tons is roughly one twelfth of this, and will therefore require approx one-twelfth of the thrust, approximating to a fuel requirement of one twelfth.

Why are you adding a graphic of an Apollo Command Module, and quoting from a Wiki about Vostok, when we're talking about the Shuttle? You know, the Space Shuttle? The one that came along AFTER Apollo?

I’m sorry! I meant Spacecraft. They retired the space shuttle and now going back to the spacecraft.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: DuncanDoenitz on October 14, 2020, 08:02:00 AM

No, the shuttle weighed 165,000 pounds when empty, or 73.6 tons. A satellite weighing 6 tons is roughly one twelfth of this, and will therefore require approx one-twelfth of the thrust, approximating to a fuel requirement of one twelfth.
[/quote]

You can't just compare mass of the spacecraft; it also depends on the required orbit.  Geostationary orbits require a much higher altitude and speed.  Spacex's Falcon Heavy, for instance, can theoretically put a payload of 63,800 kg into low earth orbit (like the shuttle and most earth-observation satellites)), but only 26,700 kg into geostationary orbit. 

And any craft which goes into space is, by definition a "spacecraft".
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Tron on October 14, 2020, 03:08:10 PM
Here's a great video of rockets hitting the dome !!!   You ain't leaving boys and girls, deal with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qab8VOBhsJ0

i think its interesting how the contails remain luminated behind the rocket!  im guessing its the ionization of the upper atmosphere that causes this.   the same phenomina i think causes the nirthern and southern Auroras and is maybe the reason why the sky lights up during the day as the sun ionizes and excites the atmospgere which causes it to glow.  if someone has anything to add please do.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Tumeni on October 14, 2020, 03:32:55 PM
i think its interesting how the contails remain luminated behind the rocket!

Maybe I'm missing something, but what do you think would prevent them being "luminated" ?

It was an early-morning launch (the GoFast one, in the video thumbnail), so the rocket starts out in sunlight, and continues to be so. The sun illuminates the trails.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Tron on October 14, 2020, 10:09:45 PM
its rocket #5 starting around 4:30 seconds.   theres clearly a blue haze illuminating the sky and theres no other clouds lit up.  i don't have any other explanation.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: JSS on October 14, 2020, 11:35:58 PM
its rocket #5 starting around 4:30 seconds.   theres clearly a blue haze illuminating the sky and theres no other clouds lit up.  i don't have any other explanation.

You mean this?  I'm not sure what I should be looking for.  I see some clouds?  Looks like a normal sky to me.

(https://i.imgur.com/0A1fyiu.png)
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Tron on October 15, 2020, 12:16:12 AM
the contrail anamoly starts at 5:32.   The rockets contrail is lighting up in two different locations.  i think its the powerful rocket exciting and ionizing the atmospheric particles which causes them to glow.   you see the same lighting effect with lightening, intense heat, and other phenomena.  at least that's my analysis so far. :P
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Tumeni on October 15, 2020, 07:13:28 AM
the contrail anamoly starts at 5:32.   The rockets contrail is lighting up in two different locations.  i think its the powerful rocket exciting and ionizing the atmospheric particles which causes them to glow.   you see the same lighting effect with lightening, intense heat, and other phenomena.  at least that's my analysis so far.

The initial lighting of the contrail is the first stage ascending out of Earth's shadow into the sunlight.

It's a two-stage rocket. The contrail disappears when the first stage shuts off, and restarts with the second stage engine starting up. The gap in the contrail is the period where the first stage engine has stopped, but the second hasn't started yet.

The additional puffs of smoke/exhaust in the trail are the cold gas thrusters on the first stage orientating it for descent.

Watch this one with any SpaceX launch side-by-side, and match up the second stage ignition etc. with this video, around 2m30s to 2m45s from take-off.
Title: Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
Post by: Tron on October 15, 2020, 10:51:45 AM
Thanks for your input.  I looked into it and your right, its calked the "Twilight Effect" when contrails illuminate from the sun.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_phenomena

**but im still going to hold on to my idea of ionization playing a part in this**