[Boots]

As I said before, also remember that Democrats can't put any bills up for vote.  They have no power in that.  As such, all bills must be republican bills.  And until we actually read what's in these bills (I have not) its a moot point to call hypocrit.

I agree it would be good to know what was in the bill which I don't. I'm going from the reports I heard which were that it did not include much beyond solving the family separation issue.

Why haven't you looked?

But can't the Dems respond to a proposed bill with some recommended changes instead of flatly refusing because "we want to keep the focus on Trump?" And if they have a problem with the proposed bill why don't they explain what their problem is with it instead of just refusing to engage at all?

Have you looked to see if criticism exists anywhere else than news reports?  It often does.  Why haven't you read the bill?

That's fine. But my point is that a social conservative who felt that Hillary was the greater of two evils could vote for Trump without being hypocritical.

If you don't support adultery but vote for Trump, you are being hypocritical by definition. That doesn't mean it is unethical to vote for Trump in some cases.  It can very much be ethical, but still hypocritical.

The democrats are clearly being hypocritical when they go into hysterics about the kids but aren't willing to do what is in their power to stop it. This fact exists independent of whether saying so is what the American oligarchy wants.

Trumps executive order doesn't accomplish anything useful and does not go against existing laws. Essentially all it says is that we will do our best to keep families together as long as we possibly can under the existing laws.
[/quote]
[/quote]I did look for the bill and didn't find it. Is it available? Please post a link.

Also, all free thinking voters are by definition, hypocrites unless by chance there happens to be an available candidate who believes in and lives up to the same values they believe in. Sounds like a pretty broad definition to me.

Also, learn to quote.

[Rama Set]

I did look for the bill and didn't find it. Is it available? Please post a link.

I am Canadian and it took me 5 minutes to find this.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/4760/text

You clearly care more about vilifying the dems than anything actually changing.

Also, all free thinking voters are by definition, hypocrites unless by chance there happens to be an available candidate who believes in and lives up to the same values they believe in. Sounds like a pretty broad definition to me.

It is a broad definition, sorry the world is a complicated place.

Also, learn to quote.

Good talk.  Hope the rest of high school works out for you.

[Boots]

I did look for the bill and didn't find it. Is it available? Please post a link.

I am Canadian and it took me 5 minutes to find this.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/4760/text

You clearly care more about vilifying the dems than anything actually changing.

Also, all free thinking voters are by definition, hypocrites unless by chance there happens to be an available candidate who believes in and lives up to the same values they believe in. Sounds like a pretty broad definition to me.

It is a broad definition, sorry the world is a complicated place.

Also, learn to quote.

Good talk.  Hope the rest of high school works out for you.

I most certainly do want a law passed, that will allow children of illegal immigrants applying for asylum to remain with their parents.

I don't think your link is the compromise bill that Paul Ryan was promoting, that was one of the original immigration bills. I think the draft of Paul Ryan's compromise is here. Doing a five minute google search and posting the first link you find isn't necessarily a good way to go about things IMO.

I don't really claim to understand this draft yet, but at first glance it certainly does seem to contain more than I was expecting which is not very impressive. I still think that if the Dems had problems with it they could explain what they are instead of rejecting it because "They want to keep the focus on Trump."  And by the fuss they're making you would expect them to be willing to do anything, ANYTHING including supporting this compromise bill, in order to  help those poor children.

[Rama Set]

>asks for an investigation
>criticizes the person who does his investigation for him
>confirmed for entitled millennial

[Boots]

>asks for an investigation
>criticizes the person who does his investigation for him
>confirmed for entitled millennial

Apologies. Thank-you for doing that. Regardless of the results, your investigation did inspire me to put more effort into finding what I believe to be the document in question.

Now for trying to understand it all.

[Rama Set]

>asks for an investigation
>criticizes the person who does his investigation for him
>confirmed for entitled millennial

Apologies. Thank-you for doing that. Regardless of the results, your investigation did inspire me to put more effort into finding what I believe to be the document in question.

Now for trying to understand it all.

Thanks for that. It is appreciated.

[Lord Dave]

Wow.... if that's the bill Paul Ryan is proposing.... fuck, it's basically a "This is a giant Republican wish list of stuff that includes one tiny bit about the kids."
This isn't a "Fix this problem" bill.  It's a "Reform the entire immigration policy, border security, and passport system.  At least from the bloody table of contents...

[Boots]

Here is another bill which I believe was Ted Cruz's bill. I haven't read it all yet but it seems much more specific. There are so many bills and so much confusion around them that I'm not sure which one is which and who rejected what. Still working on it.

[Lord Dave]

Here is another bill which I believe was Ted Cruz's bill. I haven't read it all yet but it seems much more specific. There are so many bills and so much confusion around them that I'm not sure which one is which and who rejected what. Still working on it.

I skimmed it.
https://www.vox.com/2018/6/19/17478430/border-trump-ted-cruz-children-families


That has a good summary.  Basically its a stand alone bill for the asylum process that says "Do a lot of work in 1/10th the time now."  Every step has a 24 hour limit with a 14 day maximum for all cases.  Which is horribly unrealistic, apparently.


Also, Trump is demanding a "Fix it all" bill and won't sign a stand alone bill.  Soooo.... yeah.


Dems are postering, but only because they can't actually do anything.

[Tom Bishop]

[Rama Set]

Trump is winning by a landslide

[Lord Dave]

Trump is God.  He is infallable to his worshipers.  He can do no wrong for his word is good.

[Boots]

Trump is God.  He is infallable to his worshipers.  He can do no wrong for his word is good.

And he will remain God until the media and the Dems realize that going into a frenzy of lies and half truths in an attempt to discredit him is never gonna work.

[Rama Set]

And he will remain God until the media and the Dems realize that going into a frenzy of lies and half truths in an attempt to discredit him is never gonna work.

Yes, only Trump may go in to a frenzy of half-truths and lies.  And Fox News when Obama was president. That was ok too, because we he wasn't our guy. 

[Boots]

And he will remain God until the media and the Dems realize that going into a frenzy of lies and half truths in an attempt to discredit him is never gonna work.

Yes, only Trump may go in to a frenzy of half-truths and lies.  And Fox News when Obama was president. That was ok too, because we he wasn't our guy.

It's because of the frenzied, dishonest reporting on shallow, stupid stuff that a buffoon like Trump got into office in the first place, and they just continue doing it. And they're going to keep getting the same results.

Trump is not "my guy" BTW.

[Rama Set]

It's because of the frenzied, dishonest reporting on shallow, stupid stuff that a buffoon like Trump got into office in the first place, and they just continue doing it. And they're going to keep getting the same results.

That is an incredibly simplistic analysis and I don't buy the media being the sole cause of the god-empereor's ascendance.

Trump is not "my guy" BTW. And I rarely check out FOX news.

Well thats good to know.

[Roundy]

I think you give Trump too much credit when you say he states half-truths.

Anyway is his popularity supposed to be a surprise? These are the people who cheered when he said he could murder someone on 5th Ave and still win the election. They love it every time he does something evil and racist, separating children from their families at the border seemed heartless and cruel to many, but this kind of thing is the reason his hardcore supporters love him; it plays right into his base. He will always hold onto that certain shameless segment of the population.

[Boots]

It's because of the frenzied, dishonest reporting on shallow, stupid stuff that a buffoon like Trump got into office in the first place, and they just continue doing it. And they're going to keep getting the same results.

That is an incredibly simplistic analysis and I don't buy the media being the sole cause of the god-empereor's ascendance.

Trump is not "my guy" BTW. And I rarely check out FOX news.

Well thats good to know.

Probably not the sole cause, but perhaps they should consider stopping what they're doing as it isn't getting them the result they're seeking.

[Boots]

I think you give Trump too much credit when you say he states half-truths.

Anyway is his popularity supposed to be a surprise? These are the people who cheered when he said he could murder someone on 5th Ave and still win the election. They love it every time he does something evil and racist, separating children from their families at the border seemed heartless and cruel to many, but this kind of thing is the reason his hardcore supporters love him; it plays right into his base. He will always hold onto that certain shameless segment of the population.

His supporters know that the family separation policy  was in place long before Trump. They know that families were separated in the same way under Obama, there were just fewer of them. They know that the only change he made was to make a policy that all illegal border crossers would be charged  - as opposed to letting anyone accompanied by children off scot free.

They know that the narrative that he is an evil racist who hates children and implemented a policy to rip families apart and separate them forever and be just like Hitler is a false narrative. They know that Sanders did not say that it was God's will to separate families. etc etc etc. The more the media reports like this, the less the people trust them. And they don't deserve to be trusted.

Watch America vote in another empty celebrity next election because Americans and the media can't move past the tabloid crap and start focusing on real issues.

[Rama Set]

His supporters know that the family separation policy  was in place long before Trump. They know that families were separated in the same way under Obama, there were just fewer of them. They know that the only change he made was to make a policy that all illegal border crossers would be charged  - as opposed to letting anyone accompanied by children off scot free.

...

Watch America vote in another empty celebrity next election because Americans and the media can't move past the tabloid crap and start focusing on real issues.

Having a hard time reconciling these.  Trumps supporters cant move past the tabloid crap and focus on real issues but at the same time are aware of the recent history of immigration policy?  Personally I doubt that Americans are very aware of most of their governments policies.  They believe crap like, "Obama issued the most executive orders of any president ever!" and never really investigate any further.  Thats why this immigration debate, instead of being a nuanced discussion devolves in to Trump being literally Hitler or the God-Emperor, depending on what side of the aisle he is on.

Tom is the perfect example.  He is reasonably smart, but is so unwilling to think outside his box, that he supports Trump no matter what.  As long as guys like him sound smart enough to be trusted, but are not mature enough to concede anything ever, American will continue to devolve.  Like Tyrian Lannister said, "We make peace with our enemies."  My friends down south need to do more of that.