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Offline AATW

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2023, 06:59:23 AM »
The BBC sign language interpreter understood the assignment



Spoke to a lady at church who works with deaf children and therefore knows BSL. Apparently that dude is signing an English translation of the song. So she could understand it and told me what the song is actually about.
Apparently it’s about leaving work on Friday, feeling a bit silly at the pub and then loosening up after a few drinks. Or something
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline xasop

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2023, 03:12:34 PM »
Apparently that dude is signing an English translation of the song.
In what sense is it an English translation?

Apparently it’s about leaving work on Friday, feeling a bit silly at the pub and then loosening up after a few drinks. Or something
The Rebecca Black of Finland?
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline AATW

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2023, 03:33:26 PM »
Apparently that dude is signing an English translation of the song.
In what sense is it an English translation?
In the sense that the Finish original was translated into English and the bloke was doing BSL based on that. I suspect you knew exactly what I meant.
Do you and Pete have matching "You don't have to be a pedantic arse to be a TFES mod, but it helps" signs on your walls? ;)

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Apparently it’s about leaving work on Friday, feeling a bit silly at the pub and then loosening up after a few drinks. Or something
The Rebecca Black of Finland?
Ha. You gotta get down on Friday, to be fair.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline xasop

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2023, 03:44:29 PM »
In the sense that the Finish original was translated into English and the bloke was doing BSL based on that.
But how can you or your church buddy know that's what he's doing just from watching it?
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline AATW

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2023, 03:52:46 PM »
In the sense that the Finish original was translated into English and the bloke was doing BSL based on that.
But how can you or your church buddy know that's what he's doing just from watching it?
Because she understood what he was signing. I think it's reasonable to assume that a BBC BSL signer doesn't speak Finnish.
So he must have been signing from some translated version of the lyrics, otherwise how would he know what to sign?
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline xasop

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2023, 04:01:41 PM »
I think it's reasonable to assume that a BBC BSL signer doesn't speak Finnish.
Why is it reasonable to assume that someone whose job it is to interpret between languages doesn't speak one specific language?
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline AATW

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2023, 04:08:07 PM »
I think it's reasonable to assume that a BBC BSL signer doesn't speak Finnish.
Why is it reasonable to assume that someone whose job it is to interpret between languages doesn't speak one specific language?
Because that isn't his job. He works for the BBC whose main output is in English. So his job is to translate from English into BSL.
And given that less than 0.1% of the world's population speak Finnish, it is statistically improbable that he is one of them.
Are you just trying to annoy me?
(You are doing reasonably well if so, to be fair)
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline xasop

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2023, 04:17:14 PM »
Because that isn't his job. He works for the BBC whose main output is in English. So his job is to translate from English into BSL.
And given that less than 0.1% of the world's population speak Finnish, it is statistically improbable that he is one of them.
You aren't looking at a person randomly chosen from the world's population, or even from the world's BSL interpreters. The person in question is the BBC's interpreter who was tasked with interpreting a song in Finnish into BSL. If the BBC has even one such interpreter who understands Finnish, it is most likely they would give the job to that person.

Of course, it is also possible that he is interpreting from an English translation, but it doesn't make any difference whether he is interpreting from English or Finnish, so why make an unfounded claim either way?
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline AATW

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2023, 04:32:10 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's this dude

https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrianjbailey/?originalSubdomain=uk

He neglects to mention his ability to speak Finnish in his profile.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline xasop

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2023, 04:35:34 PM »
He neglects to mention his ability to speak Finnish in his profile.
That is fine, since I didn't claim that he was interpreting from Finnish. I only claimed that you do not know if he was interpreting from English (which is still the case, since he lists several other languages that he could have been interpreting from).
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline AATW

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2023, 04:38:37 PM »
but it doesn't make any difference whether he is interpreting from English or Finnish
Exactly. I'm glad we agree :)
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline xasop

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2023, 04:43:02 PM »
Exactly. I'm glad we agree :)
That was my point all along. I wanted to understand why you had made a claim about which you had no information that was irrelevant in the first place.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline AATW

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2023, 09:43:24 AM »
Exactly. I'm glad we agree :)
That was my point all along. I wanted to understand why you had made a claim about which you had no information that was irrelevant in the first place.
I think a better question would be why you are obsessing over this tiny detail when you've just agreed it doesn't matter.
I simply repeated what the lady at church told me, but the main points of my OP were:

1) Isn't this BSL interpreter doing a brilliant job?
2) As he's signing in BSL, a friend of mine who understands it told me what this song is actually about.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2023, 09:31:44 PM »
I think a better question would be why you are obsessing over this tiny detail when you've just agreed it doesn't matter.
Because that's how the seed of disinformation* is planted, textbook-style. Many of those of us with a sceptical eye will take an issue with you so casually planting disinformation and then insisting "it doesn't matter" when it's highlighted. It rightly arouses suspicion, for the first time ever, around your intentions.

The normal course of action, since you agree the issue is unimportant, would be to say "oh, huh, yeah, my bad, I don't actually know one way or another" and to move on. After all, the issue is unimportant, and you are not invested in it. But you can't do that. You have to fight back, you always do.

Why do you have to fight back, AATW? Where is this drive coming from? Explain your intentions, so I do not have to speculate about them.

* - Since I expect you to abuse terminology here, as you've been known to do so before, I'm providing a reference for the words "disinformation" and "misinformation" in advance - I mean them as described in this article.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 09:36:08 PM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

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Offline AATW

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2023, 08:51:24 AM »
Many of those of us with a sceptical eye will take an issue with you so casually planting disinformation and then insisting "it doesn't matter" when it's highlighted.

Your link says that disinformation is "false information which is deliberately intended to mislead".
You're suggesting I was intending to mislead? Really? What was I trying to do, trick you into thinking this bloke doesn't speak Finish when he actually does?
At worst this was misinformation and none of us actually know if it was even that.

The normal course of action, since you agree the issue is unimportant, would be to say "oh, huh, yeah, my bad, I don't actually know one way or another" and to move on.
Well. I conceded it was an assumption. I explained the reasons I'd made that assumption. I even went so far, on cross-examination, to look up the dude's LinkedIn profile. Maybe he's Finnish or knows Finnish. It appears not, so I suspect my assumption was correct. But sure, I don't know for a fact. So yeah, my bad, I don't actually know one way or another.

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Why do you have to fight back, AATW? Where is this drive coming from? Explain your intentions, so I do not have to speculate about them.
It just felt like pointless pedantry. We all agree this doesn't really matter. In general I do think that truth matters, but there's no consequence here.
If the Covid vaccines are deadly poison, that matters. If the 2020 US election was rigged, that matters. The truth about these things matters, and disinformation about them matters too. There are consequences. With this...I mean, we all agree this isn't important, right? The point of my post was "didn't this BSL interpreter do a great job?" and "oh by the way, a lady at church who knows BSL told me what the song was about and it's this". Picking up on exactly how the BSL dude was BSLing - whether he was translating straight from Finnish or whether he had a translation in front of him and was using that - felt like a bizarre thing to focus on. As we all agree: it doesn't matter.
And don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of pedantry in general. But sometimes - like on this occasion - it feels a bit pointless. I'm a bit of a Grammar Nazi, and I enjoy muttering "fewer" under my breath as much as the next man, when people use "less" incorrectly. But, really, I don't care about that one. It doesn't matter. It's perfectly clear what is meant by "6 items or less". Real hard liners will say it DOES matter, but they're being prescriptive rather than descriptive about language which feels pointless. This felt pointless too. I actually thought xasop was trolling me.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2023, 09:15:31 AM by AllAroundTheWorld »
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2023, 10:16:48 AM »
You're suggesting I was intending to mislead? Really?
Yes, and I explained to you why I think so. You're encouraged to reply.

What was I trying to do
Yes, that is the question I asked you. I'd be very keen to hear your answer.

But sure, I don't know for a fact. So yeah, my bad, I don't actually know one way or another.
Superb.

It just felt like pointless pedantry. We all agree this doesn't really matter. In general I do think that truth matters, but there's no consequence here.
It was pointless, inconsequential, and unimportant, and therefore you fought back. Even if you don't see why that would be suspicious, you must see why it would come across as strange.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

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Offline AATW

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2023, 01:03:45 PM »
What was I trying to do
Yes, that is the question I asked you. I'd be very keen to hear your answer.
My original post was about the two things I said it was I wasn't "trying" to do anything in that post other that post a video which some people might find entertaining and relay the information the lady at church told me regarding what the song was actually about. My subsequent posts were responding to what I regarded as xasop's bizarre focus on a minutiae of fact which I think we all agree doesn't actually matter. I didn't regard it as a particularly serious exchange, I thought he was just being silly.

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It was pointless, inconsequential, and unimportant, and therefore you fought back.
I thought it was strange of xasop to obsess over that point. I'm not sure I "fought back". I pretty much immediately conceded that what I said was an assumption and in subsequent posts I explained why I made that assumption. I still believe my assumption was most likely to be correct, but I think we all agree that it doesn't really matter any way and it's inconsequential either way to my OP in this exchange. Which is why your suggestion that I was intending to mislead is bizarre. To what end? It doesn't matter.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Pongo

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2023, 01:44:38 PM »
I wish someone would mansplain Eurovision to me. What’s it like an annual song and dance show and the winner gets crowned Dancing Queen by ABBA?

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Offline rooster

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2023, 04:26:51 PM »
I wish someone would mansplain Eurovision to me. What’s it like an annual song and dance show and the winner gets crowned Dancing Queen by ABBA?
It's not mansplaining if you don't know what it is and are asking for an explanation.



I hate all of you sm

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Offline Pongo

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Re: Eurovision
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2023, 05:43:36 PM »
I wish someone would mansplain Eurovision to me. What’s it like an annual song and dance show and the winner gets crowned Dancing Queen by ABBA?
It's not mansplaining if you don't know what it is and are asking for an explanation.



I hate all of you sm

Wow, what a condescending way to explain mansplaining to me.

Anyways. Eurovision looks neat. I hope your team wins.