Offline Action80

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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2021, 01:16:41 PM »
The stories are all over the place with this crap, because of the need to promote the big lie.
Well, no, it's because it's not an easy thing to define definitively.

You understand that the atmospheric pressure reduces with altitude, yes? Which addresses the "you can't have an atmosphere next to a vacuum without a container nonsense". We know from experience with mountains and airplanes that we have a pressure gradient. So clearly at some point that gradient means that there will be an effective volume. But exactly where that point is, is debatable.

How does that debate help "the big lie"?
The entire thing is a sham.

The media promotes it as space. Branson calls everyone an astronaut.

All of it is a higher altitude version of a vomit comet, only not as long and not as large.

Branson is a fraud. And it is all a lie.

Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2021, 01:47:28 PM »
The FAA begs to differ, but what do they know? As I said:

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=23395

So I guess you won't be joining this then?

https://www.omaze.com/products/virgin-galactic-2021
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

Offline Action80

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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2021, 03:31:26 PM »
The FAA begs to differ, but what do they know? As I said:

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=23395

So I guess you won't be joining this then?

https://www.omaze.com/products/virgin-galactic-2021
Since you first claim space has an arbitrary definition,  you are essentially admitting you are terribly fond of all arbitrary pronouncements, which goes further to diminishing your credibility as a contributor, than it does to supporting Branson actually went to space.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 03:47:36 PM by Action80 »

Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2021, 04:23:34 PM »
The FAA begs to differ, but what do they know? As I said:

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=23395

So I guess you won't be joining this then?

https://www.omaze.com/products/virgin-galactic-2021

I'd love to see a genuine Flat Earther win it and then report back their experience, but that's very unlikely to ever happen and such a person would need to pretend they believe they really are going into space from the surface of a globe until after the event is over because I very much doubt they'd knowingly allow a Flat Earther go up. The draw might be fair since in my opinion the people going up will truly believe they have been to space since they won't be experiencing and watching everything with a critical eye and they really will feel weightlessness.

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Offline Iceman

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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2021, 04:44:48 PM »
Who constitutes a genuine flat earther though?

All I've ever seen (in the ridiculously toxic youtube arena at least) is that any time a FE'r converts, regardless of their previous fame or notoriety, they are immediately cast aside as shills or RE plants, dishonest fame-seeking, greedy... name your adjectives and expletives.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2021, 05:49:32 PM »
The FAA begs to differ, but what do they know? As I said:

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=23395

So I guess you won't be joining this then?

https://www.omaze.com/products/virgin-galactic-2021
Since you first claim space has an arbitrary definition,  you are essentially admitting you are terribly fond of all arbitrary pronouncements, which goes further to diminishing your credibility as a contributor, than it does to supporting Branson actually went to space.
A lot of things in life are just arbitrary definitions.  Why do Americans drive on the left side of the road and the British on the right?  So now you have 'at what specific altitude does space start?'  I haven't seen even one flat earther specify a specific altitude, but only 'those people didn't go into space'.  They might as well come to the USA and stand in the middle of a highway and yell 'HEY YOU, you should be driving on the other side of the road'  The FAA says that the pilots were official astronauts. They also have a lot of other arbitrary standards for pilots and proclaim that certain humans are authorized to leave the surface of the Earth in control of an airplane.  So far they haven't started to regulate birds of any kind.  I suspect that a crashing bird would do a lot less damage to someone on the ground than a crashing 747 (which is just another arbitrary model number assigned to that type of aircraft by Boeing).  The bottom line is that someone or some entity must proclaim a standard for behavior and/or licensing for those who engage in certain types of activities.  This has to be done for the overall safety of others.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 06:39:12 PM by RonJ »
You can lead flat earthers to the curve but you can't make them think!

Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2021, 07:29:43 PM »
The point is, the atmospheric pressure gets lower and lower as you go up. That can be easily verified, just go up a hill with a barometer.

There is no line where it stops, it’s a gradient. So how you define where “space” starts? Where do you draw the line? Despite Lackey’s straw man, this is nothing to do with what I may or may not be “fond” of, it’s just a simple fact that there is no definitive way or defining it. Any definition will be arbitrary, and by some definitions Branson will be taking people to space.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2021, 08:15:56 PM »
A lot of things in life are just arbitrary definitions.  Why do Americans drive on the left side of the road and the British on the right?
The British drive on the left (you mixed it up) because we used to pass each other on horses on the left. That way, if the ruffian coming the other way needs a poke from your sword (for most held in the right hand), you shan't be inconvenienced. When we moved to cars, we put the steering wheel on the right so that you could still lean out of the window with your sword and teach that guy a few manners. I demanded satisfaction 3 times last week.  >o<


So now you have 'at what specific altitude does space start?'  I haven't seen even one flat earther specify a specific altitude, but only 'those people didn't go into space'.
Let me specify an altitude for you. To be in space ... you need to be clear of the earth's atmosphere.



Branson is dicking about just above the weather balloons in the Stratosphere. You'll notice actual spaceships are out in the exosphere ... some 10-20 times higher up. An entire order of magnitude. I want to see 800km+ ... not the 80km Branson is boasting about. Check my diagram. Where's the spaceship? Why are we now being forced to change the definition? You can see meteorological rockets in and about where Branson is ... he's just in a manned one of those. He's not in a spaceship.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 08:19:54 PM by Toddler Thork »
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Offline RonJ

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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2021, 08:42:22 PM »
OK, great now we have YOUR arbitrary specification for what space happens to be.  Now all you have to do is convince the FAA that your specification is better (for some reason) than theirs and everyone, worldwide, can get with it.  I don't believe that the astronauts will be carrying too many swords or opening any windows to poke at the other guy heading in the opposite direction.  They never did that with aircraft either and the pilot in command always sits on the left side, even in British aircraft.  All you've said is that your definition of 'space' doesn't agree with the FAA.  The FAA is the one who issues the credentials for astronauts, so they win.     
You can lead flat earthers to the curve but you can't make them think!

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2021, 08:53:58 PM »
The FAA is the one who issues the credentials for astronauts, so they win.   
But here at tfes.org, we issue the credentials as to whether you proved the earth was round or not, and if you want to use "I saw earth from space" as your argument ... you'd better be in a place that we consider space. 
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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2021, 10:37:26 PM »
The FAA begs to differ, but what do they know? As I said:

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=23395

So I guess you won't be joining this then?

https://www.omaze.com/products/virgin-galactic-2021
Since you first claim space has an arbitrary definition,  you are essentially admitting you are terribly fond of all arbitrary pronouncements, which goes further to diminishing your credibility as a contributor, than it does to supporting Branson actually went to space.
A lot of things in life are just arbitrary definitions.  Why do Americans drive on the left side of the road and the British on the right?  So now you have 'at what specific altitude does space start?'  I haven't seen even one flat earther specify a specific altitude, but only 'those people didn't go into space'.  They might as well come to the USA and stand in the middle of a highway and yell 'HEY YOU, you should be driving on the other side of the road'  The FAA says that the pilots were official astronauts. They also have a lot of other arbitrary standards for pilots and proclaim that certain humans are authorized to leave the surface of the Earth in control of an airplane.  So far they haven't started to regulate birds of any kind.  I suspect that a crashing bird would do a lot less damage to someone on the ground than a crashing 747 (which is just another arbitrary model number assigned to that type of aircraft by Boeing).  The bottom line is that someone or some entity must proclaim a standard for behavior and/or licensing for those who engage in certain types of activities.  This has to be done for the overall safety of others.

Flat Earthers don't usually believe there is such thing as space, let alone an altitude to reach it, so Richard Branson's claim to reach it or anyone else's are lies. Instead the majority believe in an impenetrable firmament that covers the Earth like a dome, some believe towards the centre you reach this at around 70 miles up and so called "space rockets" launched by "space" agencies like Nasa never go straight up, instead they begin to change direction towards the ground before they reach it. There's a number of videos that claim to be showing rockets hitting and even scraping along the edge of the firmament however where they appear to leave a blue trail, some believe it's actually dense waters. Many believe the appropriately named Operation Fishbowl in 1962 when officially they were conducting high altitude nuclear detonation tests was a failed attempt to break through the firmament.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2021, 10:43:02 PM »
Flat Earthers don't usually believe there is such thing as space
What a strange idea. How, exactly, did you arrive at this misconception?

Instead the majority believe in an impenetrable firmament
The majority? Really? By all means, please show me your data.

Many believe the appropriately named Operation Fishbowl
I think you can see where this is going by now. You clearly know squat about the modern FE movement, instead blindly quoting memes you saw on Twitter, completely unable to tell satire and trolling from reality. Don't speak on our behalf.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

<Parsifal> I like looking at Chinese Wikipedia with Noto installed
<Parsifal> I don't understand any of it but the symbols look nice

Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2021, 11:30:11 PM »
Flat Earthers don't usually believe there is such thing as space
What a strange idea. How, exactly, did you arrive at this misconception?

Instead the majority believe in an impenetrable firmament
The majority? Really? By all means, please show me your data.

Many believe the appropriately named Operation Fishbowl
I think you can see where this is going by now. You clearly know squat about the modern FE movement, instead blindly quoting memes you saw on Twitter, completely unable to tell satire and trolling from reality. Don't speak on our behalf.

I have to say I'm surprised at your response since the answer to the first question is just about every flat Earth group and flat Earther I have spoken to so far, so it appears to be very different here, there's masses of videos from flat Earthers all over the Internet that discuss and attempt to prove the firmament. A lot have mentioned Operation Fishbowl, although obviously that's purely speculation. Perhaps this isn't the place for me, although I'd be interested to know how you can accommodate space into a flat Earth model.

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2021, 06:50:18 AM »
Perhaps this isn't the place for me
Relax. As a flat earther you should work on developing a thick skin.
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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2021, 10:26:22 AM »
Where does London start?  City of London?  Greater London? 

Easyjet claims to be able to fly me to 4 airports in London; London Gatwick, London Luton, London Southend, and London Stansted.  None of these are within any recognised boundary of the City, and Stansted is actually 47 Km from the Tower of London. 

So are they mis-selling?  I'm an intelligent kind of guy, and before I spend my £19.99 I'm going to do my research see if its where I want to go.  I could pay more and get a helicopter into Hyde Park.  Or maybe Luton is close enough to satisfy me.  (Disclaimer; have you been to Luton? Don't).  Can I buy a souvenir London Bus at Gatwick?  You betcha! 

Branson's marketing is quite clear on what you're getting for your money.  You want more?  Just like Easyjet, the developing market is filling up with alternative providers, who will fly you to London City, Earth-orbit, or (potentially) the Moon. 

Offline Action80

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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2021, 10:31:06 AM »
The FAA begs to differ, but what do they know? As I said:

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=23395

So I guess you won't be joining this then?

https://www.omaze.com/products/virgin-galactic-2021
Since you first claim space has an arbitrary definition,  you are essentially admitting you are terribly fond of all arbitrary pronouncements, which goes further to diminishing your credibility as a contributor, than it does to supporting Branson actually went to space.
A lot of things in life are just arbitrary definitions.  Why do Americans drive on the left side of the road and the British on the right?
Totally unrelated crap injected, as is par for the course.

By the way, you are required to drive on the side of the road indicted by local ordinance, so it isn't arbitrary.
So now you have 'at what specific altitude does space start?'
You don't know either, which is true and is actually quite refreshing, as a majority of your posts are primarily false. 
I haven't seen even one flat earther specify a specific altitude, but only 'those people didn't go into space'.
Yes, you would see that, of course. The reason happens to be they did not go into space. 
They might as well come to the USA and stand in the middle of a highway and yell 'HEY YOU, you should be driving on the other side of the road'  The FAA says that the pilots were official astronauts. They also have a lot of other arbitrary standards for pilots and proclaim that certain humans are authorized to leave the surface of the Earth in control of an airplane.  So far they haven't started to regulate birds of any kind.  I suspect that a crashing bird would do a lot less damage to someone on the ground than a crashing 747 (which is just another arbitrary model number assigned to that type of aircraft by Boeing).  The bottom line is that someone or some entity must proclaim a standard for behavior and/or licensing for those who engage in certain types of activities.  This has to be done for the overall safety of others.
Again, shouting out admittedly arbitrary proclamations only serves to further discredit your worth as a meaningful contributor.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2021, 10:35:03 AM by Action80 »

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2021, 10:56:43 AM »
Where does London start?  City of London?  Greater London? 

Easyjet claims to be able to fly me to 4 airports in London; London Gatwick, London Luton, London Southend, and London Stansted.  None of these are within any recognised boundary of the City, and Stansted is actually 47 Km from the Tower of London. 

So are they mis-selling?  I'm an intelligent kind of guy, and before I spend my £19.99 I'm going to do my research see if its where I want to go.  I could pay more and get a helicopter into Hyde Park.  Or maybe Luton is close enough to satisfy me.  (Disclaimer; have you been to Luton? Don't).  Can I buy a souvenir London Bus at Gatwick?  You betcha! 


London is enormous. You missed another of its excellent airports. London Oxford Airport.
https://www.reubenbrothers.com/london-oxford-airport/

Branson's marketing is quite clear on what you're getting for your money. 
It really isn't. Consider the pub below.



Now, it calls itself Windsor castle, but I think it is pretty obvious that it is not Windsor castle. Windsor castle looks more like



Your argument is that when you go into the pub, despite it calling itself Windsor castle, it obviously isn't Windsor castle and so everything is fine. And that Branson isn't flying in a spaceship but because we all know that, its fine.

But that's not what is happening. He is deliberately trying to fool people into thinking he is actually going into space. The pub isn't trying to fool people into thinking it is Windsor castle. The pub is a tribute to the actual castle. Blobbie Williams is a fat guy tribute act to Robbie Williams. Neither purport to being the real thing. But Branson insists his flight is a trip to space. Not a tribute. That's the fraud.
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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2021, 11:50:06 AM »
Are the FAA trying to fool people too? They agree he's taking people into space.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2021, 12:25:05 PM »
Are the FAA trying to fool people too? They agree he's taking people into space.

I don't give a flying monkeys what the FAA said. They are a bunch of know nothing bureaucrats.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noctilucent_cloud
Noctilucent clouds are composed of tiny crystals of water ice up to 100 nm in diameter[3] and exist at a height of about 76 to 85 km (249,000 to 279,000 ft),[4] higher than any other clouds in Earth's atmosphere.

There are clouds at the altitude that Branson went. If you think there are clouds in space, then you deserve to have a man like Branson pull your pants down and spank your arse.
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Offline Action80

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Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2021, 12:41:31 PM »
Are the FAA trying to fool people too? They agree he's taking people into space.
How?

By using an arbitrary number they pulled from your ass or their ass?

And do not be arbitrary in your response.