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Messages - rooster

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61
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: July 11, 2022, 12:48:38 AM »
Quote from: stack
And there are a whole plethora of laws and processes aimed at regulating abortions

Correct, but we are assessing the position that abortion should be a matter between a woman and her doctor and the state should not be involved. If abortion is harmful to women then the state does have a responsibility to step in.

What you posted shows that multiple states have acknowledged that abortion does need to be regulated.
Honestly, the state should always step in to make sure everyone makes the best decision possible in every situation. No one knows better than the state and women are too delicate to have regrets.

I posted this link before, so if you keep trolling can you at least pick a new angle? This is beneath you; lazier than usual.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/416421/five-years-after-abortion-nearly-all-women-say-it-was-right-decision-study

62
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: July 07, 2022, 11:03:48 PM »
That's pretty terrible, actually.

"306 (69%) of 441 said they would have the abortion again" means that 31% said that they would not have the abortion if they could choose again. This represents millions of women. The fact that they have almost a 1 in 3 chance of regretting their decision two years later is something young women should know, to provide them with complete information.

"(72%) of 440 reported more benefit than harm from their abortion" means that 28% reported more harm than benefit from their abortion.

"(80%) of 386 were not depressed" means that 20% were still depressed from their abortion two years later.

"Depression decreased and self-esteem increased from preabortion to postabortion, but negative emotions increased and decision satisfaction decreased over time." means that the longer the time passes the more and more women regret their abortion. This study was for a mere two years after abortion. Many of the testimonials in the previous document were of women looking back ten years later or more and regretting their abortion, wishing that they had not done it.

There may be some women who suspect that they might regret their abortion but go through with it anyway, and later find that their inner suspicion was correct. It is a disservice to expect that women are experts in things they are not familiar with. Therefore allowing "women to decide" is a bunk argument. Young women considering an abortion are simply inexperienced in this to be capable of making the best decision.
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. Let's ban everything that a tiny minority (it was already established your stats are inaccurate trash and I'm pretty sure you've tried this argument already earlier in this topic) might regret. Tattoos, piercings, sex, marriage, shopping in general (buyer's remorse), taking risks/not taking risks, etc. Might as well put everyone in a safe little box because people are incapable of making their own decisions.

63
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: July 03, 2022, 08:17:32 PM »
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3544588-10-year-old-girl-denied-abortion-in-ohio/

I guess she should have kept her legs closed? Right, GOP?
Obviously the 10 year old should have realized she was pregnant sooner so as not to miss the 6 week cutoff. /s tag just in case anyone can't tell again

64
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: July 02, 2022, 03:39:59 PM »
>_> not sure if serious....
ffs Dave

65
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: July 01, 2022, 10:16:15 PM »
I vote for changing the term "miscarriage" to "died of natural causes." To call it miscarriage is to pretend like they weren't a fully realized human with hopes and dreams and I just think that's sick. We don't say Jane Doe died of miscarriage at the age of 95!  >o<

66
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: June 30, 2022, 04:44:28 PM »
No, we didn't.

I pointed out an additional charge of homicide is also leveled, something you very much wanted to keep out of the discussion as it renders your reasoning in support of abortion to actually be reasoning in support of wanton murder.
I did not care if it was brought into the discussion or not. The law explicitly excludes abortion and as I said before, consent makes all the difference. This is not my opinion, it was literally written into law. If someone decided to violently cut off a woman's breasts that would be a crime. If a woman and her doctor decide on a mastectomy to treat cancer that would not be a crime.

Fetal homicide hinges on the violent act against a pregnant woman. Not a medical decision the woman makes for herself.
As pointed out, "person" in legal terms means whatever fuck all the laws want it to mean. It does not mean a naturalized person with rights. If you have problems with that then, well just wait longer and I'm sure it will all be pushed aside when we become a christian taliban state.

I don't know why I bother. You say obvious troll shit like
A. - I am breathing.

2. 
So just go back to ranting and telling me my copy/pasta is wrong.

67
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: June 30, 2022, 02:54:01 PM »
If you aren't interested in having an honest conversation, you should just avoid me instead of looking lying to try and make me look bad.
He never is. We bypassed homicide being the number one cause of death to pregnant women and are back on first trimester abortion is murder that apparently matters more than the woman. There's no point.

68
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: June 29, 2022, 09:32:55 PM »
Legally speaking, there is a difference between person and natural person.

Quote
legal person
Primary tabs
Overview
Legal person refers to a human or non-human entity that is treated as a person for limited legal purposes.

Quote
In law, a human person is called a natural person (sometimes also a physical person), and a non-human person is called a juridical person (sometimes also a juridic, juristic, artificial, legal, or fictitious person, Latin: persona ficta).

I should have specified "natural" not "legal" but I'm not a lawyer and so got it mixed up.

69
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: June 29, 2022, 09:15:11 PM »
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/94.102

Seems a crime victim is a person

You are just flat-out wrong.

So, there you have it.

An unborn fetus is a person.
This is just so lazy. You're telling me I'm wrong for pasting a literal law that explicitly excludes abortions and pretending like you understand legal terms better than people who write the laws.

70
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: June 29, 2022, 04:34:39 PM »
Also for a fun statistic, the number one cause of death for pregnant women is homicide. A lot of women don't know they're even pregnant by six weeks (which is the ban limit in TN now). Let's watch those homicides go up when women are forced to carry unwanted pregnancies.
Unremarkably, the perp would face TWO counts of homicide. Are you arguing the charge for the second should be dropped because no human was killed?
Can't believe someone made a throw away just to say that smh
The consent of the pregnant woman makes the entire difference.

Quote
The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law that recognizes an embryo or fetus in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence.
*Note that is says legal victim, not legal person

Quote
Bars prosecution under this Act: (1) of any person for conduct relating to an abortion for which the consent of the pregnant woman (or a person authorized by law to act on her behalf) has been obtained or is implied by law or for conduct relating to any medical treatment of the pregnant woman or her unborn child; or (2) of any woman with respect to her unborn child.
This is also called the Laci and Connor's (Peterson) Law where Laci was 8 months pregnant. Looking around some legal sites, some have a prerequisite on how far along the fetus needs to be and specify death must be the result of a malicious and violent criminal act.

71
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: June 28, 2022, 08:47:24 PM »
That seems pretty unlikely.
For now it might seem unlikely, but also seems pretty fucking dangerous to assume it will stay that way given the political climate here in the states and how SCOTUS has their eyes on rolling back other rulings that protect contraception, same-sex relationships, and same-sex marriages. We have extremists here and the conservatives are not afraid to pander to them.

There's a lot of complexity and nuance here which too many people on both sides don't acknowledge.
Ah yes, the GOP is well known for their nuance and delicate handling of complex issues.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record here but less than 1% of abortions happen in the third trimester and it's almost exclusively for medical emergencies. Women don't go around carrying fetuses for that long and then decide to get rid of it for fun. Meanwhile, states are jumping on this with their trigger laws. I don't know if you're aware, but states have been pushing things for awhile now - weird rules on forcing clinics to have hallways that are a specific width (for example) all as an excuse to close them down if they're not meeting these arbitrary codes. Women's health clinics don't need hallways to be that big btw because they're not pushing a bunch of patients around on gurneys. It doesn't take a huge leap to think they might eventually ban all abortion. I mean, it was only 2012 when an Irish woman died because she was having a miscarriage but doctors weren't allowed to intervene because the fetus still had a heartbeat. Kinda weird to assume the USA in 2022 won't also be that heinous.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2022-06-27/the-story-behind-irelands-abortion-ban-and-its-reversal

Also for a fun statistic, the number one cause of death for pregnant women is homicide. A lot of women don't know they're even pregnant by six weeks (which is the ban limit in TN now). Let's watch those homicides go up when women are forced to carry unwanted pregnancies.

72
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: June 28, 2022, 07:44:03 PM »
Hell yeah, can't wait for ectopic pregnancies to be a death sentence in the USofA.

73
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: June 27, 2022, 02:03:57 AM »
Yeah, there's no cultural swing. And there's no reason to be focusing on late term abortions.

74
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: June 27, 2022, 12:15:51 AM »
Tom, what is your actual point? You're happy RvW has been overturned because less than 1% of abortions are during the third trimester? Gr8 deb8 m8

75
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: June 26, 2022, 08:26:02 PM »
Oh boy, not the late term abortion boogeyman.  ::) They are incredibly rare but might become less so if abortions are difficult to get in a timely manner.

https://theconversation.com/less-than-1-of-abortions-take-place-in-the-third-trimester-heres-why-people-get-them-182580

77
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: June 24, 2022, 04:16:25 PM »
Regardless of what you think of the decision to reverse Roe v. Wade, legislatures saw this coming from miles away. If you want abortion to be a properly protected act, then you need to pass a law (state or federal) that treats it as such. Relying on a historically flimsy and controversial court case to legislate from the bench is a mistake.
100%
No one bothering to make it law has been a huge issue in this. We've known this was coming for quite some time and birth control is on shaky ground.

If you don't like what's going on, then you should of course blame your local government and federal representatives for allowing it to happen.
Yes. Unfortunately, politicians are mostly trash.

78
Arts & Entertainment / Re: Just Watched
« on: June 10, 2022, 04:23:43 PM »
RRR was very good. It has over the top action, wholesome male friendship, and a great musical number. You'll laugh, you'll cry, it's a gr8 time.

79
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: May 19, 2022, 07:25:47 PM »
Condoms fail when people put then on wrong.  Or buy the wrong size.  Or wear two at once like an idiot.
Otherwise they work really well. I trust it over any medication.
Yes and my point is that women have birth control pills and they're more heavily relied upon than condoms so there's no reason men shouldn't also have birth control pills if the science allows it.

Obviously if everyone wore condoms correctly every time they had sex we wouldn't be having this conversation.

80
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« on: May 19, 2022, 05:31:46 PM »
Male birth control exists.
Its called a condom.  Men just hate it.

Also, vasectamy. Totally reversable but ya know... Thats evil to suggest men get them until they want kids.
Condoms are more prone to failure than other forms of birth control, but yeah are generally good sense to use for STDs. Vasectomy reversals can be pricey and there is about a 90-95% chance of success on top of it being a surgery which a lot of people aren't super comfortable with. Men tend to get vasectomies when they're done having kids rather than temporary birth control which is understandable.

So obviously I'm talking about medication - something that would help put the shared burden on guys instead of assuming all women are or should be on hormonal birth control.

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