The Flat Earth Society
Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Pete Svarrior on October 27, 2020, 07:25:01 PM
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Prison is a punishment that involves the removal of offenders from ordinary life.
Given that 2020 has had a serious lack of "ordinary life" for innocent people, all current prisoners should have their sentences increased by a year, in the interest of fairness for non-criminal members of society.
Discuss.
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I think that it depends on how each individual defines "ordinary life". For example, if a person's ordinary life was staying at home all day on an isolated farm and murdering the occasional delivery person, then I see no reason why they couldn't be released and continue with their life as the current global climate would not overly change their day-to-day.
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Let's say the individual in question was a highly sociable investment banker living in a major city, then. Does that change your answer?
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Nah.
Because, as much of a pain in the hole as this year has been, it still doesn’t compare to prison. The height of lockdown was tough but since then while there have been restrictions it’s not been too onerous. The rule of 6 is a pain and now London is in Tier 2 it is harder to socialise, but these restrictions still don’t compare to prison. It’s half term this week and we have plans pretty much every day either with friends or as a family. We aren’t all locked in our houses.
Also, I don’t think there’s any evidence that longer prison sentences are effective as a deterrent or in preventing reoffending
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In fact there is evidence that once a sentence gets to a few years it’s reached maximum psychological effect for deterrence.
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Prison is a punishment that involves the removal of offenders from ordinary life.
Given that 2020 has had a serious lack of "ordinary life" for innocent people, all current prisoners should have their sentences increased by a year, in the interest of fairness for non-criminal members of society.
Discuss.
Anybody that compares an American jail to a stay-at-home-quarantine has never been in an American jail.
In fact there is evidence that once a sentence gets to a few years it’s reached maximum psychological effect for deterrence.
Correct, it's been found that the deterrent effect doesn't come the length of the sentence, it comes from how likely they are to get caught. The death penalty has no meaning if the criminals are sure they will never be caught. But, a few years of prison would be a significant deterrent if they were certain they would get caught.
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no prison sentence should be extended. prisons should be abolished. FUCK the carceral archipelago.
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Prison is a punishment that involves the removal of offenders from ordinary life.
Is it? Are you sure about that?
Think about it. What exactly are we trying to accomplish with our penal system?
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Let's say the individual in question was a highly sociable investment banker living in a major city, then. Does that change your answer?
In this case yes, their sentence should be increased. In fact, if we never return to a pre-Covid-like world then their sentence may be extended indefinitely.
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Prison is a punishment that involves the removal of offenders from ordinary life.
Is it? Are you sure about that?
Think about it. What exactly are we trying to accomplish with our penal system?
In America? To keep them out of society in an environemnt that makes them suffer so they don't want to go back.
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Think about it. What exactly are we trying to accomplish with our penal system?
Profit for the prison-industrial complex and its shareholders?
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Think about it. What exactly are we trying to accomplish with our penal system?
Profit for the prison-industrial complex and its shareholders?
Exactly. Legalize weed and a huge part of that goes away.
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Think about it. What exactly are we trying to accomplish with our penal system?
Profit for the prison-industrial complex and its shareholders?
Exactly. Legalize weed and a huge part of that goes away.
Oh no, you cant do that - look what happened to countries and states that legalized it!
Kids arent getting criminal records cor having a few grams on them, people can buy strands that fit what they actually want from the plant, theres more tax revenue for governments to spend, police forces arent spending time writing tickets and charging people for possession related offenses. It's crazy out there. It's against the law, which means it should always be against the law. Even though it wasnt always against the law.
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Think about it. What exactly are we trying to accomplish with our penal system?
Profit for the prison-industrial complex and its shareholders?
Exactly. Legalize weed and a huge part of that goes away.
Oh no, you cant do that - look what happened to countries and states that legalized it!
Kids arent getting criminal records cor having a few grams on them, people can buy strands that fit what they actually want from the plant, theres more tax revenue for governments to spend, police forces arent spending time writing tickets and charging people for possession related offenses. It's crazy out there. It's against the law, which means it should always be against the law. Even though it wasnt always against the law.
Well said. Can't happen!
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Kids arent getting criminal records cor having a few grams on them, people can buy strands that fit what they actually want from the plant, theres more tax revenue for governments to spend, police forces arent spending time writing tickets and charging people for possession related offenses.
But what if people realise you can make cheap paper out of weed? The woodcutting industry would be very sad about this.
Also, this thread is not about how we should get more people into jail. The question is whether we should keep them there for longer, given that they're currently not missing out on much, and the point is for them to miss out on things.
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Kids arent getting criminal records cor having a few grams on them, people can buy strands that fit what they actually want from the plant, theres more tax revenue for governments to spend, police forces arent spending time writing tickets and charging people for possession related offenses.
But what if people realise you can make cheap paper out of weed? The woodcutting industry would be very sad about this.
Also, this thread is not about how we should get more people into jail. The question is whether we should keep them there for longer, given that they're currently not missing out on much, and the point is for them to miss out on things.
I thought the point was to make them suffer.
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I thought the point was to make them suffer.
Nah, the people we really want to make suffer don't make it to prison. Not officially, at least. This is more of a middle of the road kinda deal.
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Also, this thread is not about how we should get more people into jail. The question is whether we should keep them there for longer, given that they're currently not missing out on much, and the point is for them to miss out on things.
But they are missing out on things. I know UK is in Lockdown 2 at the moment, but we can still go for a walk at any time to anywhere reasonable for exercise, we can watch TV/YouTube/Netflix whenever we like, we can play video games, we can go to the shops and buy whatever food we want to prepare nice meals whenever we want, we can talk on the phone to anybody we want whenever we want, we can have meaningful sex with our partners whenever the mood fancies (although if you're gay and in prison, that might work for you there too!), we can still go out for a scenic drive out in the car with music playing to blow the cobwebs off, and we can still "bubble" with one household. If I had to choose between a year of being in prison or a year in lockdown like we are, I know what I'd pick!
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If I had to choose between a year of being in prison or a year in lockdown like we are, I know what I'd pick!
Are you suggesting that we should give prisoners a choice as to whether or not they want to remain in prison? That doesn't sound like a good idea.
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Are you suggesting that we should give prisoners a choice as to whether or not they want to remain in prison? That doesn't sound like a good idea.
How did you come up with that interpretation?! ::)
Obviously not. I simply said, “If I had to choose...”, which in clear contextual use means that two situations are being presented, and one of those situations is clearly more favourable to me than the other. Nothing more, nothing less.
You posted the question about prisoners having an extra year added to their sentences because you think they aren’t missing out on much relative to those of us in lockdown due to COVID-19. I gave plenty of examples of things they are missing out on. So, to make it really clear to you, no, I don’t think prisoners should have an extra year added to their sentences. The reason being that I don’t consider life in lockdown to be anywhere near as bad as being locked up in prison.
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The reason being that I don’t consider life in lockdown to be anywhere near as bad as being locked up in prison.
But that is not the question. The question is whether life in lockdown is anywhere near as good as the life they were originally supposed to be removed from.
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The reason being that I don’t consider life in lockdown to be anywhere near as bad as being locked up in prison.
But that is not the question. The question is whether life in lockdown is anywhere near as good as the life they were originally supposed to be removed from.
I'd suggest that is balanced out by the fact that prison has been much worse for many during lockdown too
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/local-news/locked-up-lockdown-life-inside-4684751
And it's a simplification to suggest that prison is solely about punishment by depriving liberty, there should surely be more to it than that like ensuring public safety and rehabilitation.
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I'd suggest that is balanced out by the fact that prison has been much worse for many during lockdown too
Yeah, I can see that, fair enough.
And it's a simplification to suggest that prison is solely about punishment by depriving liberty, there should surely be more to it than that like ensuring public safety and rehabilitation.
Oh, there certainly should be more to it than that.
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But that is not the question. The question is whether life in lockdown is anywhere near as good as the life they were originally supposed to be removed from.
In fairness the question was "Should we extend all jail sentences by a year due to COVID-19?", and my statement there was a direct consequence of answering that by way of examples. However, I accept that threads weave about a bit and add perspective. Tackling that question as posed there, "Is life anywhere near as good as it was before lockdown?" I have to say no, it's definitely nowhere near as good - far worse for some than others for sure, but on balance we are all in a worse social and/or financial position compared to before and will continue to be affected by it for quite some time with cancellations and restrictions in force. Having said that, I was going to explore the avenue that AllAroundTheWorld highlighted to see if prisoners lives had been negatively affected by the same magnitude. You could argue that being cooked up for 22 hours at a time in a dingy cell isn't quite the same level of disruption to their normal daily routine compared to those of us on the outside. However, that doesn't sound too appetising! On balance I do stand by my original answer that no, jail sentences shouldn't necessarily be extended, for all the same reasons I gave before.