SAGNAC = ROTATION
If you accept that Michelson recorded the Sagnac effect, the RE win hands down.
Michelson-Morley interferometer = Sagnac interferometer, so we are back to the same situation.
Once you answer yes, it is all over.
SAGNAC =
ROTATION OF AETHERYour statements are very eloquent and would be applicable to our discussion here if and only if you can disprove the RE's main contention point: the SAGNAC EFFECT formula proves rotation.
The CORIOLIS effect proves rotation which however can be attributed to two different causes: either the Earth is rotating, or the ether drift causes the effect.
NO such ambiguity applies to the SAGNAC EFFECT.
This is most certainly not an irrefragable proof of Earth's rotation
But it is, once you agree with Michelson and Gale that the following formula is actually the SAGNAC EFFECT formula:
Sagnac's interferometer proves ROTATION.
Sagnac's interferometer proves
ROTATION OF AETHER AROUND MOTIONLESS EARTH!!!Really, inconsistency ends the discussion.
The statistical data works in the RE's favor.
They will remind you yet again that the SAGNAC effect proves rotation.
I will remind you yet again that the SAGNAC effect proves
ROTATION OF AETHER AROUND MOTIONLESS EARTH!!!As far as whether the right equations are even being used, I doubt it. It looks a bit different than the sagnac formula
The formula published by Michelson is ACCEPTED to be the SAGNAC EFFECT formula.
Everyone accepts this fact, RE, GE, FE.
Sungenis, the foremost geocentrist in the world, accepts this as well.
Let us now apply this formula to the MGX.
The figures for the area of the path, latitude (41deg. 46'), wavelength of the light, speed of light, and the expected fringe shifts are well known.
Expected fringe shift: 0.2364
Measured fringe shift: 0.230 +/- 0.005
Then, the angular velocity of the Earth can be easily computed.
Then, the angular velocity of aether's rotation around motionless earth can be easily computed.
ON TOP OF THAT :
DP: On the Luminiferous/Electropon Ether: Now, more broadly on ether experiments, yes, I have objections to your explanation concerning Michelson-Morley (MMX), Michelson-Gale (MGX), and the luminiferous/electropon ether (below just “ether”. This must be distinguished from the second flavor of ether in GWW, the “Planck ether” which GWW states cannot be detected by today’s Interferometers: see GWW1, p. 619.)
RS: It doesn’t matter what the ether is made of. Whatever ether is,
it was measured by the 1925 MGX at 98% of what was expected, and that is a fact of empirical science. Thus it detected the daily rotation between Earth and space. Conversely, the 1881 – 1930 MMX-type experiments and the current sapphire resonators, using the same ether principle but in a different mounting than MGX, did not measure a revolution of the Earth around the sun. Those are the facts. You choose to answer the MMX-type results by assuming there is no ether and making light speed constant.
But then you are stuck with MGX, which can’t be explained by assuming there is no ether and that light speed is constant. If you will, the 1925 MGX measured the ether at
“an insane level of precision,” and it also measured differences in the speed of light between the two tubes. That is your dilemma. If you can’t explain MGX, then you really have no explanation for MMX.
DP: Basically my position is this: There is no coherent ether model that can make sense of the results from both MM and Sagnac interferometers. Taken as a whole, interferometer experiments demonstrate that the ether does not exist. Therefore, by itself failure to detect it lends no support for or against a moving Earth or a motionless Earth.
RS: Your reasoning is illogical.
Again, the 1925 MGX measured the exact amount of ether expected for a relative rotation between Earth and space. So we know there is an ether, since we must acknowledge that some kind of substance in the vacuum tubes made the light split into interference fringes on the receiver in the MGX experiment. We also know that the most plausible reason why the 1887 MMX didn’t detect any ether is not because the ether does not exist (since we see the ether in the MGX experiment) but because the Earth isn’t moving against the ether, and that is because the Earth is not revolving around the sun. The logic speaks for itself. Your challenge is not so much with MMX or Sagnac. Your challenge is answering the dilemma you have between the 1887 MMX and the 1925 MGX.
IN ADDITION :
No relativist today would dream of disputing the findings of the
Sagnac experiment. Most transoceanic planes, nuclear submarines and communications satellites navigate today with laser ring gyroscopes that utilize the
Sagnac effect for position location. The accuracy of the original
Sagnac experiment has been estimated at 1:100, but a repetition of the
Sagnac experiment with lasers, in 1963, by
Macek and Davis, confirmed the result to 1:10^12.
Curiously, many relativists and experimentalists get caught in their ignorance of the Sagnac effect. In 1979,
Brillet and Hall reported a null result (absence of frequency shift) with frequency-locked laser beams, one set in a rotating interferometer, and the other kept stationary, and thus concluded in favour of the isotropy of space. However, not only did they observe a 50 Hz signal at precisely the rotation rate of the turntable employed, but also another more troublesome signal, at 17Hz.
Aspden, who has suggested that the null result may well be the inevitable consequence of such frequency-locked laser tests because "the frequency of the lasers will adjust to the reorientation of the apparatus exactly to cancel any effect due to motion through the light-reference frame", commented on the 17Hz frequency shift findings of
Brillet and Hall, which had been ignored by them as a "persistent spurious signal":
"Interpreting the 17 Hz signal as the second harmonic of table rotation found by
Brillet and Hall in relation to the laser frequency 8.85*1013 Hz, we find the ratio 1.92*10^-13 and, as this is 0.131 (v/c)^2, we find that v/c is 1.21*10^-6, giving v as 363 m/sec. If our theory is correct then, within the errors of measurement, this should be the west-east speed of earth rotation at Boulder, Colorado. Being at 40°N, Boulder has, in fact, an earth rotation speed of 355 m/sec." Apparently,
Brillet and Hall were conducting a control on the MGP experiment using the
Sagnac effect to detect the earth's speed of rotation and with the required resolution,
without knowing it!
More recently still, there have been confirmations of the
Sagnac effect for electrons and neutrons. In 1993,
Hasselbach and Nicklaus reported a shift of 0.06 fringes using rotating electron beams. The result clearly indicates that atmospheric charges flow faster westward than in the opposite direction. Werner et al confirmed the
Sagnac effect with neutron interferometry. With a swiveling apparatus, they showed that if the interferometer rotated in a N-S plane the effect was extinguished, whereas in a W-E plane it was at a maximum.