Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2016, 08:24:12 PM »


Someone has posted that GPS do not work at Sahara, I will argue that it won't work at places with low coverage from GPS Mountain based antennas.
What happen is that antennas all over the world cover with frequencies a lot of space and then you have your signal to GPS.

The best place to put such an antenna is at mountains, there you can has a lot of connections all over the world, second thing is what we call microwave:
You launch signals from far away and the signal get caught on ground and allow you navigate safely.

Rayzor once said there is a specific frequency - yes this is the frequency for GPS Mountain based antennas.
When we know that antennas are hundreds of kilometers far away even thousands of kilometers we can assume that the antenna is in a very remote part of the world, or at very far away part of the world,
The world is full of signals of antennas that's all.

There are satellites at space they produce useless photos but not GPS signal.

Disclaimer:
That's my theory I am not a professional I am just want to speculate according to the laws of this forum.

How many mountains.are there in the middle of the oceans ?
There are many ways to spread signals across the ocean.
Okay. Like, which?
1) Nearby mountain antennas can launch very powerful rays to the ocean and then you can pick them from high altitude,
2)you can use the stratosphere or the concavity of the earth.
3)powerful antennas can launch very powerful rays and signal to the sky then the rays declining or sinking down and what you have to do is to pick the signal from air.

But you kind of miss some key points.

1. Based on GPS data, you can calculate the exact position of any given GPS satellite that your GPS chip is receiving from

2. "Very powerful rays" is.. Well, vague. What kind of "rays"? Frequency, band etc. Those kind of information are kind of... Important. Different bands and frequencies have different properties, pros and cons, especially when it comes to either bouncing off of he upper atmosphere or following the earth's curvature (like VHF for instance)

3. Picking something from high altitudes, I assume that you them refer to line-of-sight. With what then? Extremely tall GPS antennas?
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Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2016, 08:29:07 PM »
Getting back to the subject at hand, ground based GPS  could not provide altitude information.
It depends where you direct your signal by the antennas it has nothing to do with satellites.
There are tons of antennas around the world you just need to pick the signal from the sky, there where the antennas point.

You really need to do some research on GPS systems. Otherwise you are making no sense. As mentioned , GPS transmiitters operate
on special frequencies, special designs and special modes of operation. For one thing, the GPS transmitter must be higher above the object below to give altitude information. Since aircraft operate at altitudes of 30,00 feet or more, ground based towers would have to be at least 30,000 feet tall.
They can direct their rays to high altitude above 30000ft and then the Aircraft will pick it.
I have already told before that there are special frequencies.

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Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2016, 08:32:40 PM »


Someone has posted that GPS do not work at Sahara, I will argue that it won't work at places with low coverage from GPS Mountain based antennas.
What happen is that antennas all over the world cover with frequencies a lot of space and then you have your signal to GPS.

The best place to put such an antenna is at mountains, there you can has a lot of connections all over the world, second thing is what we call microwave:
You launch signals from far away and the signal get caught on ground and allow you navigate safely.

Rayzor once said there is a specific frequency - yes this is the frequency for GPS Mountain based antennas.
When we know that antennas are hundreds of kilometers far away even thousands of kilometers we can assume that the antenna is in a very remote part of the world, or at very far away part of the world,
The world is full of signals of antennas that's all.

There are satellites at space they produce useless photos but not GPS signal.

Disclaimer:
That's my theory I am not a professional I am just want to speculate according to the laws of this forum.

How many mountains.are there in the middle of the oceans ?
There are many ways to spread signals across the ocean.
Okay. Like, which?
1) Nearby mountain antennas can launch very powerful rays to the ocean and then you can pick them from high altitude,
2)you can use the stratosphere or the concavity of the earth.
3)powerful antennas can launch very powerful rays and signal to the sky then the rays declining or sinking down and what you have to do is to pick the signal from air.

But you kind of miss some key points.

1. Based on GPS data, you can calculate the exact position of any given GPS satellite that your GPS chip is receiving from

2. "Very powerful rays" is.. Well, vague. What kind of "rays"? Frequency, band etc. Those kind of information are kind of... Important. Different bands and frequencies have different properties, pros and cons, especially when it comes to either bouncing off of he upper atmosphere or following the earth's curvature (like VHF for instance)

3. Picking something from high altitudes, I assume that you them refer to line-of-sight. With what then? Extremely tall GPS antennas?
1)maybe you can calculate the antenna distance from you and it could be very far away antenna as well.

geckothegeek

Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2016, 08:35:09 PM »


You don't understand. The GPS transmiitter has to be higher than the aircraft to give altitude information, A little GPs research should clear up your questions.


« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 08:36:44 PM by geckothegeek »

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Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2016, 08:38:21 PM »
Getting back to the subject at hand, ground based GPS  could not provide altitude information.
It depends where you direct your signal by the antennas it has nothing to do with satellites.
There are tons of antennas around the world you just need to pick the signal from the sky, there where the antennas point.

You don't understand. The GPS transmiitter has to be higher than the aircraft to give altitude information, A little GPs research should clear up your q.
What the difference between the transmitter being taller than the aircraft or the signal from the transmitter be higher than aircraft, you can use plenty of transmitters for such a deal.

Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2016, 09:04:17 PM »




Someone has posted that GPS do not work at Sahara, I will argue that it won't work at places with low coverage from GPS Mountain based antennas.
What happen is that antennas all over the world cover with frequencies a lot of space and then you have your signal to GPS.

The best place to put such an antenna is at mountains, there you can has a lot of connections all over the world, second thing is what we call microwave:
You launch signals from far away and the signal get caught on ground and allow you navigate safely.

Rayzor once said there is a specific frequency - yes this is the frequency for GPS Mountain based antennas.
When we know that antennas are hundreds of kilometers far away even thousands of kilometers we can assume that the antenna is in a very remote part of the world, or at very far away part of the world,
The world is full of signals of antennas that's all.

There are satellites at space they produce useless photos but not GPS signal.

Disclaimer:
That's my theory I am not a professional I am just want to speculate according to the laws of this forum.

How many mountains.are there in the middle of the oceans ?
There are many ways to spread signals across the ocean.
Okay. Like, which?
1) Nearby mountain antennas can launch very powerful rays to the ocean and then you can pick them from high altitude,
2)you can use the stratosphere or the concavity of the earth.
3)powerful antennas can launch very powerful rays and signal to the sky then the rays declining or sinking down and what you have to do is to pick the signal from air.

But you kind of miss some key points.

1. Based on GPS data, you can calculate the exact position of any given GPS satellite that your GPS chip is receiving from

2. "Very powerful rays" is.. Well, vague. What kind of "rays"? Frequency, band etc. Those kind of information are kind of... Important. Different bands and frequencies have different properties, pros and cons, especially when it comes to either bouncing off of he upper atmosphere or following the earth's curvature (like VHF for instance)

3. Picking something from high altitudes, I assume that you them refer to line-of-sight. With what then? Extremely tall GPS antennas?
1)maybe you can calculate the antenna distance from you and it could be very far away antenna as well.

Ok. You didn't answer my two other points. Please make an effort to.

And no. GPS data doesn't simply consist of a frequency data and a simple direction. I can tell you with 100% certainty, that the data I read from a GPS chip doesn't come from an antenna. Besides the actual coordinates you'd expect from positioning, you also get stuff like azimuth, angle, altitude (in centimeters for consumer grade chips), latitude, longitude, speed, day, month, year, time stamps, and heaps of other data specific to your configuration.

Please find a better explanation, and while you do, please know that I work with this every single day.
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I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2016, 09:21:19 PM »
Maybe similar versions of things like:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratellite

But I get it, many of you RErs aren't willing to consider any possibilities outside of your preconceived notions...
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 09:25:41 PM by junker »

Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2016, 09:33:23 PM »
Maybe similar versions of things like:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki


But I get it, many of you RErs aren't willing to consider any possibilities outside of your preconceived notions...

Wrong. It's not about considering possibilities outside of our "preconceived notions" as "Round Earthers" (which isn't even a thing). Most innovation requires thinking outside the box. Not being able to think outside the box can't be attributed to something as weak a definition as a "Round earther". It can be attributed to a person, regardless of belief or level of knowledge. There's no need to think outside the box to explain what is already explained, such as how the Global Position System works.

Now, Project Loon is a very interesting project! Do notice that the planned altitude is (was?) 18 km. High Altitude Balloons won't go much higher than 40km. That is assuming the use of hydrogen instead of helium. With helium, it's probably lower than that for a balloon not supposed to burst. Those altitudes doesn't comply with the calculations of GPS signals regardless, where even the precision of a simple reciever clock and it's drift can be used to calculate the distance to a GPS satellite.
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Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2016, 10:43:33 PM »
Wrong.

Incorrect.

Right down to your usually completely uninformative answers, keep it up!

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Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2016, 11:51:16 PM »
Wrong.

Incorrect.

Right down to your usually completely uninformative answers, keep it up!

I'm sorry if my previous links were too hard for you to understand. If you need any help, please just ask and I'll do my best to explain in a more simple way for you.

geckothegeek

Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2016, 01:21:19 AM »
Time and time again the flat earth "FAQ" and "wifi" have been found to be useless.
If the flat earthers want to live in their own fantasy world , maybe we should leave tnem alone and leave them to it.
It is useless to present real world facts anyway.

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Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2016, 01:44:24 AM »
Time and time again the flat earth "FAQ" and "wifi" have been found to be useless.
If the flat earthers want to live in their own fantasy world , maybe we should leave tnem alone and leave them to it.
It is useless to present real world facts anyway.

So your point is countered and this is your best reply? You never present evidence for anything. You make baseless statements and then deflect when called out on it. I don't expect you to change.

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Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2016, 01:45:48 AM »




Someone has posted that GPS do not work at Sahara, I will argue that it won't work at places with low coverage from GPS Mountain based antennas.
What happen is that antennas all over the world cover with frequencies a lot of space and then you have your signal to GPS.

The best place to put such an antenna is at mountains, there you can has a lot of connections all over the world, second thing is what we call microwave:
You launch signals from far away and the signal get caught on ground and allow you navigate safely.

Rayzor once said there is a specific frequency - yes this is the frequency for GPS Mountain based antennas.
When we know that antennas are hundreds of kilometers far away even thousands of kilometers we can assume that the antenna is in a very remote part of the world, or at very far away part of the world,
The world is full of signals of antennas that's all.

There are satellites at space they produce useless photos but not GPS signal.

Disclaimer:
That's my theory I am not a professional I am just want to speculate according to the laws of this forum.

How many mountains.are there in the middle of the oceans ?
There are many ways to spread signals across the ocean.
Okay. Like, which?
1) Nearby mountain antennas can launch very powerful rays to the ocean and then you can pick them from high altitude,
2)you can use the stratosphere or the concavity of the earth.
3)powerful antennas can launch very powerful rays and signal to the sky then the rays declining or sinking down and what you have to do is to pick the signal from air.

But you kind of miss some key points.

1. Based on GPS data, you can calculate the exact position of any given GPS satellite that your GPS chip is receiving from

2. "Very powerful rays" is.. Well, vague. What kind of "rays"? Frequency, band etc. Those kind of information are kind of... Important. Different bands and frequencies have different properties, pros and cons, especially when it comes to either bouncing off of he upper atmosphere or following the earth's curvature (like VHF for instance)

3. Picking something from high altitudes, I assume that you them refer to line-of-sight. With what then? Extremely tall GPS antennas?
1)maybe you can calculate the antenna distance from you and it could be very far away antenna as well.

Ok. You didn't answer my two other points. Please make an effort to.

And no. GPS data doesn't simply consist of a frequency data and a simple direction. I can tell you with 100% certainty, that the data I read from a GPS chip doesn't come from an antenna. Besides the actual coordinates you'd expect from positioning, you also get stuff like azimuth, angle, altitude (in centimeters for consumer grade chips), latitude, longitude, speed, day, month, year, time stamps, and heaps of other data specific to your configuration.

Please find a better explanation, and while you do, please know that I work with this every single day.
You are uninformative, how can you tell please that the GPS chip data come from Satellite please share it with us, all of other things can be manipulate without any need of satellites in my opinion you just need imagination.

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Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2016, 02:19:31 AM »
Wrong.

Incorrect.

Right down to your usually completely uninformative answers, keep it up!

I'm sorry if my previous links were too hard for you to understand. If you need any help, please just ask and I'll do my best to explain in a more simple way for you.

I would really like that. One thing I am not understanding is if the GPS system is based on balloons at 18 - 40 KM why don't these altitudes comply with the calculations of the GPS? And I'm not sure but I think you can get altitude or elevation information from positions higher than 18 - 40 Km. How is this possible?
“There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” - George Orwell

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Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2016, 02:24:49 AM »
Wrong.

Incorrect.

Right down to your usually completely uninformative answers, keep it up!

I'm sorry if my previous links were too hard for you to understand. If you need any help, please just ask and I'll do my best to explain in a more simple way for you.

I would really like that. One thing I am not understanding is if the GPS system is based on balloons at 18 - 40 KM why don't these altitudes comply with the calculations of the GPS? And I'm not sure but I think you can get altitude or elevation information from positions higher than 18 - 40 Km. How is this possible?
I thought you get the distance between the transmitters to the device ?

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Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2016, 02:56:21 AM »
... GPS system is based on balloons at 18 - 40 KM why don't these altitudes comply with the calculations of the GPS?
Do you have any evidence to support this implication?

Quote
And I'm not sure but I think you can get altitude or elevation information from positions higher than 18 - 40 Km. How is this possible?

If you aren't sure then why are you positing the question to begin with? Additionally, as I mentioned previously, it is possible that "similar versions" could be responsible. I didn't say this was unequivocal, but obviously these versions would be capable of higher attitudes. I get that you RE types aren't good at context or critical thinking, but please try to make an effort once in a while.

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Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2016, 03:23:53 AM »
... GPS system is based on balloons at 18 - 40 KM why don't these altitudes comply with the calculations of the GPS?
Do you have any evidence to support this implication?

Quote
And I'm not sure but I think you can get altitude or elevation information from positions higher than 18 - 40 Km. How is this possible?

If you aren't sure then why are you positing the question to begin with? Additionally, as I mentioned previously, it is possible that "similar versions" could be responsible. I didn't say this was unequivocal, but obviously these versions would be capable of higher attitudes. I get that you RE types aren't good at context or critical thinking, but please try to make an effort once in a while.

I know about the Atomic clock in the Receiver and in the antenna - The atomic clock can calculate the time which the signal arrived, then you know how far is the satellite/antenna - My Theory goes like that - the atomic clock is there to keep the contact with the remote antenna for better coordinates to get in wider Visual, if there were not the clock the gps would pick other signals from closer antennas - that's my theory.

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Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2016, 03:35:05 AM »
... GPS system is based on balloons at 18 - 40 KM why don't these altitudes comply with the calculations of the GPS?
Do you have any evidence to support this implication?

I based this on the following:

Those altitudes doesn't comply with the calculations of GPS signals regardless, where even the precision of a simple reciever clock and it's drift can be used to calculate the distance to a GPS satellite.

Do you disagree with this? Why?

And I'm not sure but I think you can get altitude or elevation information from positions higher than 18 - 40 Km. How is this possible?
If you aren't sure then why are you positing the question to begin with? Additionally, as I mentioned previously, it is possible that "similar versions" could be responsible. I didn't say this was unequivocal, but obviously these versions would be capable of higher attitudes. I get that you RE types aren't good at context or critical thinking, but please try to make an effort once in a while.

I am positing the question because I am quite sure they are accurate at higher elevations.Do you think this is correct or false? If you think it's correct then how is this possible?

I am of the understanding that 40 Km is the upper limit of elevation you can achieve with balloons. Do agree with this or do you think they can achieve even higher altitude?What do you think would be the upper limit?

Also, why are you painting all REers with the same brush? When Gecko did that to FEers we concluded that this position was nonsensical and false.
“There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” - George Orwell

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Re: I want to hear again the excuses why GPS cannot be ground based ?
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2016, 04:12:15 AM »
I based this on the following:

Those altitudes doesn't comply with the calculations of GPS signals regardless, where even the precision of a simple reciever clock and it's drift can be used to calculate the distance to a GPS satellite.


Do you disagree with this? Why?

Irrelevant. What I am asking for is evidence. You have provided none. Repeating something that someone else posted, also without evidence, doesn't constitute evidence. If you have none, then simply say so.


I am positing the question because I am quite sure they are accurate at higher elevations.
Fantastic. I am sure you can provide supporting evidence for this.


Do you think this is correct or false?
Irrelevant.


I am of the understanding that 40 Km is the upper limit of elevation you can achieve with balloons.
Cool story, who is talking about balloons?


Do agree with this or do you think they can achieve even higher altitude?
Irrelevant.


Also, why are you painting all REers with the same brush? When Gecko did that to FEers we concluded that this position was nonsensical and false.
I am glad you agree that Gecko is nonsensical.