The Flat Earth Society
Other Discussion Boards => Science & Alternative Science => Topic started by: Yaakov ben Avraham on September 18, 2014, 03:02:58 PM
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Greetings!
I wasn't sure where to put this question, so I opted for S&AS. If it belongs somewhere else, the Censors are welcome to put it elsewhere, and I won't be offended.
I have a question, but first a little background. I have had serious sinus issues since I was 12 (I am now 40) that have kept me blowing my nose on average about every 5-10 minutes since the Seventh Grade. It is painful, annoying to myself and others, and just downright a pain in the arse. I have been on various prescription nasal sprays (right now I am on Flo-nase), and, although it helps marginally (insofar as I can breathe at all), it is only of marginal benefit. Well, to make a long story short, friends have been recommending that I use saline nasal spray.
I finally broke down and bought a bottle two days ago. I have used it about four times a day. And, holy crap! I have gone from blowing my nose every 5-10 minutes to maybe once every hour! Its less painful, I can actually breathe through my nose for the first time in my life since adolescence, although I still can't get enough air that way, its less annoying to me and others, I mean, wow, its like a whole new world in the respiratory department!
What I want to know is simple: How the hell does this stuff work? I mean, its not even medicated! Its salt water, for heaven's sake! So why so much relief? Not that I am bitching, mind you! I have never been so happy in all my life! But I want to know, how exactly does this work?
So, are there any doctors, nurses, or other health professionals that can explain this to me? I would really appreciate it! Thanks!
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You swallow the snot.
It mixes then drops down the back of your throat.
*based on my general knowledge of biology. May not be correct. Consult your doctor.
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What I want to know is simple: How the hell does this stuff work? I mean, its not even medicated! Its salt water, for heaven's sake! So why so much relief? Not that I am bitching, mind you! I have never been so happy in all my life! But I want to know, how exactly does this work?
So, are there any doctors, nurses, or other health professionals that can explain this to me? I would really appreciate it! Thanks!
Google is your friend.
Some studies support the use of saline solution (salt water) to restore moisture to dry nasal passages and sinuses and to lessen the inflammation of mucous membranes. Findings show that if saline irrigation is used regularly, it can help to thin mucus, decrease postnasal drip, and cleanse your nasal passages of bacteria.
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Yes, but I was wondering at the mechanism behind that. I know what it does. But my question was how.
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??? You're wondering how water can thin out thick mucus? I'm guessing that it's in pretty much the same way that liquids thin out pretty much any thick substance.
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I guess you have a point.
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It's more than that, but it depends on the saline. Somewhere on the saline bottle it'll say either isotonic or hypertonic. If it's isotonic all it does is thin out the fluid. If it's hypertonic it also dries out the cells in your nose. Basically, cell membranes allow water to move fairly easily in and out of a cell and if there's more stuff in the fluid outside the cell than there is in the fluid in the cell water will tend to be forced out of the cell. It's more or less just diffusion.
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It's more osmosis than diffusion, but yeah.
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I know that some stuff has more salt than is in your body, some stuff has the same amount, and some stuff has less. This stuff has less. Its the Generic equivalent of Ocean Nasal Spray, ingredients as follows:
purified water
sodium chloride 0.65%
disodium phosphate
phenylcarbinol (a preservative)
monosodium phosphate
benzalkonium chloride (a preservative)
Does that help?
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I know that some stuff has more salt than is in your body, some stuff has the same amount, and some stuff has less. This stuff has less. Its the Generic equivalent of Ocean Nasal Spray, ingredients as follows:
purified water
sodium chloride 0.65%
disodium phosphate
phenylcarbinol (a preservative)
monosodium phosphate
benzalkonium chloride (a preservative)
Does that help?
If it's hypotonic then some of the saline solution is being absorbed into the cells. Is it supposed to be a moisturizer?
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Have you tried using a neti pot? I've heard they work well for congestion.
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3500 milligrams of powdered unbuffered Vitamin C, taken 8 times a day, can cure a chronic sinus infection over a weekend.
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Dr Birley's Phosphorous Tonic is very good at curing this. If you need help preparing this, I have a recipe.
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3500 milligrams of powdered unbuffered Vitamin C, taken 8 times a day, can cure a chronic sinus infection over a weekend.
Tom, the only thing that overdose is going to do is make your piss more expensive than usual.
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3500 milligrams of powdered unbuffered Vitamin C, taken 8 times a day, can cure a chronic sinus infection over a weekend.
Tom, the only thing that overdose is going to do is make your piss more expensive than usual.
It can also cause:
Diarrhea
Nausea
Vomiting
Heartburn
Abdominal bloating and cramps
Headache
Insomnia
Kidney stones
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3500 milligrams of powdered unbuffered Vitamin C, taken 8 times a day, can cure a chronic sinus infection over a weekend.
Tom, the only thing that overdose is going to do is make your piss more expensive than usual.
Incorrect. Vitamin C is powerful against microbes invading the body. There are a big list of diseases it can treat.
It is a common remedy for sinus infections: http://www.sinus-pro.com/Archive/articles%202011/Vitamin_C_Ideal_for_Fighting_Sinus_Infections.asp
3500 milligrams of powdered unbuffered Vitamin C, taken 8 times a day, can cure a chronic sinus infection over a weekend.
Tom, the only thing that overdose is going to do is make your piss more expensive than usual.
It can also cause:
Diarrhea
Nausea
Vomiting
Heartburn
Abdominal bloating and cramps
Headache
Insomnia
Kidney stones
You forgot the side effect of curing a chronic disease.
Kidney stones are pretty rare. Nausea is temporary, and a good thing because it means the Vitamin C is killing the microbes infecting the body, which explode into toxins as they die. This is eventually cleaned up by the body. Insomnia would be temporary, as the body adjusts its energy levels to account for the reduced load of bacteria and viruses it must contend with.
The remaining symptoms of abdominal pain and heartburn can happen, but only if you way overdo it, since unbuffered Vitamin C is an acid. If one wishes, they can use a buffered solution with a ph that matches the human body, which is effective, but won't be as powerful as the unbuffered kind.
The risks of some minor temporary discomfort are easily outweighed by the benefits Vitamin C has with many different kinds of illnesses.
See: http://www.doctoryourself.com/klennerpaper.html
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You forgot the side effect of curing a chronic disease.
Eh. There are conventional medicines that do the trick better than overdosing on Vitamin C.
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You forgot the side effect of curing a chronic disease.
Eh. There are conventional medicines that do the trick better than overdosing on Vitamin C.
Vitamin C overdose is not lethal. It causes diarrhea once bowel tolerance is met. And when you reach your bowel tolerance, you then know how much to stay under. No one has died due to Vitamin C overdose. Vitamin C is an vitamin natural to the body. The body knows what to do with vitamins when there is too much of it.
Synthetic medicines are known to be lethal, on the other hand. The body does not recognize synthetic medicines, and doesn't know what to do with them. This is why many drugs have a list of side effects as long as your arm. It's a foreign, unnatural chemical. When chemicals hang around they cause damage.
More than twice as many people die from prescription drugs than from car accidents. (http://www.alternet.org/story/147318/100,000_americans_die_each_year_from_prescription_drugs,_while_pharma_companies_get_rich)
Would you rather put a substance into your body that is natural to it, or would you rather put an unnatural, synthetic substance?
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You forgot the side effect of curing a chronic disease.
Eh. There are conventional medicines that do the trick better than overdosing on Vitamin C.
Vitamin C overdose is not lethal. It causes diarrhea once bowel tolerance is met. And when you reach your bowel tolerance, you then know how much to stay under. No one has died due to Vitamin C overdose. Vitamin C is an vitamin natural to the body. The body knows what to do with vitamins when there is too much of it.
Synthetic medicines are known to be lethal, on the other hand. The body does not recognize synthetic medicines, and doesn't know what to do with them. This is why many drugs have a list of side effects as long as your arm. It's a foreign, unnatural chemical. When chemicals hang around they cause damage.
More than twice as many people die from prescription drugs than from car accidents. (http://www.alternet.org/story/147318/100,000_americans_die_each_year_from_prescription_drugs,_while_pharma_companies_get_rich)
Would you rather put a substance into your body that is natural to it, or would you rather put an unnatural, synthetic substance?
That's not how biochemistry works
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That's not how biochemistry works
You can't overdose and die from most natural substances such as vitamins and herbs. If the body doesn't like it, it just gets rid of it. The body and bowel regulates how much Vitamin C it should absorb, and if there's too much, it just allows it to pass through.
Over many millions of years, the mammalian body has gotten to know Vitamin C very intimately. Gaining defenses against eating too many strawberries is something that would have been done very early on in evolution.
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Vitamin C overdose is not lethal. It causes diarrhea once bowel tolerance is met. And when you reach your bowel tolerance, you then know how much to stay under. No one has died due to Vitamin C overdose. Vitamin C is an vitamin natural to the body. The body knows what to do with vitamins when there is too much of it.
Synthetic medicines are known to be lethal, on the other hand. The body does not recognize synthetic medicines, and doesn't know what to do with them. This is why many drugs have a list of side effects as long as your arm. It's a foreign, unnatural chemical. When chemicals hang around they cause damage.
More than twice as many people die from prescription drugs than from car accidents. (http://www.alternet.org/story/147318/100,000_americans_die_each_year_from_prescription_drugs,_while_pharma_companies_get_rich)
Would you rather put a substance into your body that is natural to it, or would you rather put an unnatural, synthetic substance?
I did not claim that overdosing on Vitamin C was lethal.
That article reads like a paranoid conspiracy theory. Over the counter medication for sinus infections are common, and they are not life threatening. Broadly claiming that synthetic medicines are lethal is intellectually dishonest, because you know that's BS. Despite your paranoid delusions, pharmaceutical companies want to keep the people buying their medicines alive. Not dead.
With that being said, I'd rather take the recommended dose of sinus medicine over an overdose of Vitamin C.
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You can't overdose and die from most natural substances such as vitamins and herbs. If the body doesn't like it, it just gets rid of it. The body and bowel regulates how much Vitamin C it should absorb, and if there's too much, it just allows it to pass through.
Over many millions of years, the mammalian body has gotten to know Vitamin C very intimately. Gaining defenses against eating too many strawberries is something that would have been done very early on in evolution.
Tom, you can and will die from severe overdose of literally anything. Even drinking too much water is deadly. There is nothing you can overdose from and not suffer any ill effects. That is why it is called overdose in the first place.
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Over the counter medication for sinus infections are common, and they are not life threatening.
Yes they are. When you go to the ENT doctor about a raging sinus infection they put you on antibiotics, which are very dangerous. Have you not heard of how dangerous antibiotics are?
Antibiotics Kill Your Body's Good Bacteria, Too, Leading to Serious Health Risks (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2003/06/18/antibiotics-bacteria.aspx)
Antibiotic widely prescribed for decades has dangerous side effects which can kill (http://www.naturalnews.com/033856_antibiotics_side_effects.html)
Basically, there are 10 times more good bacteria living in harmony with your body than the actual number of human cells (See:Humans Have Ten Times More Bacteria Than Human Cells (http://://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080603085914.htm)). Your body is mostly made up of bacteria. You would be dead if it were not for these bacteria doing good things for us in exchange for survival. When you introduce an antibiotic which goes in and kills everything indiscriminately, it can causes major problems and put you on a path to a chronic fatal illness.
Natural substances merely assist and enhance the body to function better. The body is perfectly capable of curing itself. Eating good whole foods gives the body the enzymes and nutrients it needs. Eating vegetables and fruits provide the vitamins, such as Vitamin C, the body needs to function better and cure its own diseases.
Vitamin C is especially interesting when it comes to human illness because it is the primary vitamin the body uses when targeting the bad things which cause disease. The immune system targets the bad bugs and uses the natural acid of Vitamin C to dissolve them from existence. It's the ammunition the body's immune system uses when targeting disease, not the carpet bombing antibiotics are.
Broadly claiming that synthetic medicines are lethal is intellectually dishonest, because you know that's BS. Despite your paranoid delusions, pharmaceutical companies want to keep the people buying their medicines alive. Not dead.
Pharmaceutical companies want to make money, and would sooner step over a dead body to make a buck.
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Pharmaceutical companies want to make money, and would sooner step over a dead body to make a buck.
This makes absolutely no sense.
Why would pharmaceutical companies kill their customers to make money?
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Pharmaceutical companies want to make money, and would sooner step over a dead body to make a buck.
This makes absolutely no sense.
They know it's bad. They just don't care. Even if they did care, they will never give you the much better natural substances for your disease since there is no profit in it. Natural substances cannot be patented.
If the good bacteria in your gut is killed off and you develop fungal overgrowth, indigestion, IBD, Chrons, etc, you are now an income stream, giving them a whole lot money then they were getting before. Once you get to the stage of cancer you are now spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, through your insurance, making them rich.
You are going to a FOR PROFIT medical system. They have an incentive to milk you.
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Pharmaceutical companies want to make money, and would sooner step over a dead body to make a buck.
This makes absolutely no sense.
They know it's bad. They just don't care. Even if they did care, they will never give you the much better natural substances for your disease since there is no profit in it. Natural substances cannot be patented.
If the good bacteria in your gut is killed off and you develop fungal overgrowth, indigestion, IBD, chrons, etc, you are now an income stream, giving them a whole lot money then they were getting before. Once you get to the stage of cancer you are now spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, through your insurance, making them rich indeed.
You are going to a FOR PROFIT medical system. They have an incentive to keep things the way they are.
And how are they making money off you when you're dead?
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And how are they making money off you when you're dead?
By the time you're dead you've spent a whole lot more money on cancer drugs and other drugs for chronic issues than you would have if you spent the rest of your life stopping into your doctors office a couple of times a year for a perfectly safe antibiotic.
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Tom, you can and will die from severe overdose of literally anything. Even drinking too much water is deadly. There is nothing you can overdose from and not suffer any ill effects. That is why it is called overdose in the first place.
No you cant. The bowel does not absorb everything you eat. Water is an exception to the rule, as water molecules are incredibly tiny and small enough to fit through the filter of the bowels. The bowel filters and manages input on a compound level, not on an atomic one. The filter of the bowels can't be too small, else the bigger and more complex vitamins and nutrients could not be absorbed. The filters of the small bowel aren't small enough to manage water and electrolytes, which is why you might occasionally hear of someone dying of water overdoes, or of a substance containing lots of electrolytes such as sodium.
No one dies of strawberry overdose. If you ate too many strawberries your body would simply reject it. You will be ill from the vomiting and diarrhea, but you will not die. Maybe your body would starve or dehydrate itself to death if you ate so many strawberries for such a prolonged time and no other liquids, fats, enzymes, or nutrients from other sources. But as far as things like "strawberry toxicity," it does not exist.
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And how are they making money off you when you're dead?
By the time you're dead you've spent a whole lot more money on cancer drugs and other drugs for chronic issues than you would have if you spent the rest of your life stopping into your doctors office a couple of times a year for a perfectly safe antibiotic.
I wonder how health insurance companies feel about that, especially now with Obamacare in effect.
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While it might theoretically be possible to accidentally overdose on Vitamin C, the logistics make it inconceivable. The LD50 in rats is 11.9g/kg. Assuming a similar level for humans you are talking about 550,000mg for a 50kg human, which is 275 of the highest dosage tablet generally seen on the market. Taking in to account that Vitamin C is water soluble, and excess quantities do not stay in your system for very long I think you would deliberately have to set out to OD on flinstones vitamins.
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No you cant. The bowel does not absorb everything you eat. Water is an exception to the rule, as water molecules are incredibly tiny and small enough to fit through the filter of the bowels. The bowel filters and manages input on a compound level, not on an atomic one. The filter of the bowels can't be too small, else the bigger and more complex vitamins and nutrients could not be absorbed. The filters of the small bowel aren't small enough to manage water and electrolytes, which is why you might occasionally hear of someone dying of water overdoes, or some other substance containing lots of electrolytes such as sodium.
No one dies of strawberry overdose. If you ate too many strawberries your body would simply reject it. You will be ill from the vomiting and diarrhea, but you will not die. Maybe your body would starve or dehydrate itself to death if you ate so many strawberries for such a prolonged time and no other liquids, fats, enzymes, or nutrients from other sources. But as far as things like "strawberry toxicity," it does not exist due to te superior regulation of the bowels.
You can and will die from strawberry overdose.
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While it might theoretically be possible to accidentally overdose on Vitamin C, the logistics make it inconceivable. The LD50 in rats is 11.9g/kg. Assuming a similar level for humans you are talking about 550,000mg for a 50kg human, which is 275 of the highest dosage tablet generally seen on the market. Taking in to account that Vitamin C is water soluble, and excess quantities do not stay in your system for very long I think you would deliberately have to set out to OD on flinstones vitamins.
That's assuming that absorption of Vitamin C was 100%, which it isn't. If you could swallow 550,000 mg, the theoretical lethal dose, you would actually absorb very little of it.
Vitamins In Foods: Analysis, Bioavailability, and Stability (http://books.google.com/books?id=mcwdkygB0FQC&lpg=PA302&ots=3nwujP6m5q&dq=Beyond%20physiological%20intakes%2C%20absorption%20becomes%20progressively%20less%20efficient&pg=PA302#v=onepage&q=Beyond%20physiological%20intakes,%20absorption%20becomes%20progressively%20less%20efficient&f=false)
"Beyond physiological intakes, absorption becomes progressively less efficient, falling from 75% of a single 1-g dose to 16% of a single 12-g dose (Table 19.2). This fall-off in efficiency occurs because absorption of high luminal concentrations of vitamin C takes place mainly by simple diffusion, and this passive movement proceeds at a very low rate."
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And how are they making money off you when you're dead?
By the time you're dead you've spent a whole lot more money on cancer drugs and other drugs for chronic issues than you would have if you spent the rest of your life stopping into your doctors office a couple of times a year for a perfectly safe antibiotic.
I wonder how health insurance companies feel about that, especially now with Obamacare in effect.
Insurance companies are evil too. The insurance companies are very strict about what doctors can and can't do. They typically have doctors send patients to do one major test at a time. An ultrasound of the Kidneys here, an upper endoscopy there. Medical tests can take a long time to schedule. This is unfortunate when someone has a chronic condition, exhibiting many issues throughout their body, and needs a full workup. A full workup in a non-emergency setting can take years. It's a slow game, hoping that the patient either gets better or dies before the insurance company has to put out too much money.
Also, the yearly $6000 medical deductible and $6000 prescription deductibles in the low range Obamacare plans designed for low-income people discourages them from going to the doctor, which is an evil unto its own.
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Tom, you can and will die from severe overdose of literally anything. Even drinking too much water is deadly. There is nothing you can overdose from and not suffer any ill effects. That is why it is called overdose in the first place.
No you cant. The bowel does not absorb everything you eat. Water is an exception to the rule, as water molecules are incredibly tiny and small enough to fit through the filter of the bowels. The bowel filters and manages input on a compound level, not on an atomic one. The filter of the bowels can't be too small, else the bigger and more complex vitamins and nutrients could not be absorbed. The filters of the small bowel aren't small enough to manage water and electrolytes, which is why you might occasionally hear of someone dying of water overdoes, or of a substance containing lots of electrolytes such as sodium.
No one dies of strawberry overdose. If you ate too many strawberries your body would simply reject it. You will be ill from the vomiting and diarrhea, but you will not die. Maybe your body would starve or dehydrate itself to death if you ate so many strawberries for such a prolonged time and no other liquids, fats, enzymes, or nutrients from other sources. But as far as things like "strawberry toxicity," it does not exist.
You can certainly die from eating too many carrots, too much cinnamon, and a lot of other natural things. Not to mention that a lot of natural plants are toxic in even the smallest doses, such as several species of mushrooms (I know, fungus not plant).
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Tom, you can and will die from severe overdose of literally anything. Even drinking too much water is deadly. There is nothing you can overdose from and not suffer any ill effects. That is why it is called overdose in the first place.
No you cant. The bowel does not absorb everything you eat. Water is an exception to the rule, as water molecules are incredibly tiny and small enough to fit through the filter of the bowels. The bowel filters and manages input on a compound level, not on an atomic one. The filter of the bowels can't be too small, else the bigger and more complex vitamins and nutrients could not be absorbed. The filters of the small bowel aren't small enough to manage water and electrolytes, which is why you might occasionally hear of someone dying of water overdoes, or of a substance containing lots of electrolytes such as sodium.
No one dies of strawberry overdose. If you ate too many strawberries your body would simply reject it. You will be ill from the vomiting and diarrhea, but you will not die. Maybe your body would starve or dehydrate itself to death if you ate so many strawberries for such a prolonged time and no other liquids, fats, enzymes, or nutrients from other sources. But as far as things like "strawberry toxicity," it does not exist.
You can certainly die from eating too many carrots, too much cinnamon, and a lot of other natural things. Not to mention that a lot of natural plants are toxic in even the smallest doses, such as several species of mushrooms (I know, fungus not plant).
You're mixing in a couple of things here. The topic here is overdose, not poisoning. When you die from eating a poisonous fungus you have not "overdosed" on it.
As per carrots, you will not die from carrot overdose. You are sooner to die from the poisonous pesticides on the carrot, than the actual carrot. You might die from cinnamon, since store bought cinemmon has a lot of preservatives and flow agents in them. But actual organic cinnemon that the body recognizes as a food source will not lead to death if consumed in large quantity. The body will just expel it out.
Try to find a story of someone dying of eating too may strawberries or carrots. It will be difficult to find.
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You'll start to turn orange if you eat too many carrots, continue to eat more over a period of time and you'll die. Also, poisoning is the same as overdosing, it's just that poisonous plants have a very low overdose level. Why do you think drinking 2 gallons of water in an hour leads to water toxicity aka water poisoning?
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You'll start to turn orange if you eat too many carrots, continue to eat more over a period of time and you'll die. Also, poisoning is the same as overdosing, it's just that poisonous plants have a very low overdose level. Why do you think drinking 2 gallons of water in an hour leads to water toxicity aka water poisoning?
You wont die of carrots, the body regulates how many nutrients are absorbed. As we saw earlier in the thread, if you take 1g of powdered Vitamin C almost everything is absorbed. If you take 13g, almost nothing is absorbed. The same goes for other types of nutrients. The bowel does not simply absorb everything you shove in your mouth.
Water and electrolytes are the few exceptions to the rule because the molecules are too small to be regulated by the bowels, and just pass through. The filters of the bowels are on a larger scale to regulate the bigger and more complex vitamins, fibers, fats, and nutrients. This is why it is possible to die from drinking too much water, but not die from eating too many strawberries. The body is more concerned about you getting the exact ratio of nutrients to match its present needs than stopping you from doing something stupid like ignoring your instincts to stop drinking down gallons of water.
As per poisons like cyanide and hemlock, and poisons that physically destroy the cells of the gut to punch its way in and destroy everything in its path, that's not really in the realm of discussion.
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Tom, you can and will die from severe overdose of literally anything. Even drinking too much water is deadly. There is nothing you can overdose from and not suffer any ill effects. That is why it is called overdose in the first place.
No you cant. The bowel does not absorb everything you eat. Water is an exception to the rule, as water molecules are incredibly tiny and small enough to fit through the filter of the bowels. The bowel filters and manages input on a compound level, not on an atomic one. The filter of the bowels can't be too small, else the bigger and more complex vitamins and nutrients could not be absorbed. The filters of the small bowel aren't small enough to manage water and electrolytes, which is why you might occasionally hear of someone dying of water overdoes, or of a substance containing lots of electrolytes such as sodium.
No one dies of strawberry overdose. If you ate too many strawberries your body would simply reject it. You will be ill from the vomiting and diarrhea, but you will not die. Maybe your body would starve or dehydrate itself to death if you ate so many strawberries for such a prolonged time and no other liquids, fats, enzymes, or nutrients from other sources. But as far as things like "strawberry toxicity," it does not exist.
You can certainly die from eating too many carrots, too much cinnamon, and a lot of other natural things. Not to mention that a lot of natural plants are toxic in even the smallest doses, such as several species of mushrooms (I know, fungus not plant).
You're mixing in a couple of things here. The topic here is overdose, not poisoning. When you die from eating a poisonous fungus you have not "overdosed" on it.
As per carrots, you will not die from carrot overdose. You are sooner to die from the poisonous pesticides on the carrot, than the actual carrot. You might die from cinnamon, since store bought cinemmon has a lot of preservatives and flow agents in them. But actual organic cinnemon that the body recognizes as a food source will not lead to death if consumed in large quantity. The body will just expel it out.
Try to find a story of someone dying of eating too may strawberries or carrots. It will be difficult to find.
You'll die if you consume too much of anything, even carrots or water.
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Tom: Incorrect.
http://m.livescience.com/35430-seven-good-foods-you-can-overdose-on-110201.html