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Offline xasop

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Purgatory
« on: June 06, 2015, 03:30:38 PM »
A technique that was trialled fairly successfully on the other site is the idea of "Purgatory". That is, a special group for chronic rule-breakers where bans have proven to be ineffective, which allows them to post only in CN and AR, but still browse the other fora. I've just created such a group, and we intend to begin using it effective immediately to deal with repeat offenders.

One thing I'm undecided on is whether members in Purgatory should be able to post in S&C. On the one hand, this enables them to continue to have a voice in how the forum is run. On the other, it also allows them to cause trouble in at least one upper forum. Thoughts?
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2015, 03:36:00 PM »
A technique that was trialled fairly successfully on the other site is the idea of "Purgatory". That is, a special group for chronic rule-breakers where bans have proven to be ineffective, which allows them to post only in CN and AR, but still browse the other fora. I've just created such a group, and we intend to begin using it effective immediately to deal with repeat offenders.
Excellent. About time, too!

One thing I'm undecided on is whether members in Purgatory should be able to post in S&C. On the one hand, this enables them to continue to have a voice in how the forum is run. On the other, it also allows them to cause trouble in at least one upper forum. Thoughts?
¿Por qué no los dos? You can create two groups and add people to them as appropriate. If they can remain civil in S&C, there's no problem here. If they can't, welp. I think being allowed to post in S&C should be the default state, and further restrictions should only be imposed if justified.

In the long term, I would recommend that the use of this group be explicitly mentioned in the rules. Currently, most rules are quite clear about how bans and warnings would be handed up. I don't think we need to go as far as to strictly codify the Purgatory (although that is also an option that could be considered), but I do think it's important that the existence of this solution is at least mentioned.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline xasop

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2015, 03:38:33 PM »
¿Por qué no los dos? You can create two groups and add people to them as appropriate. If they can remain civil in S&C, there's no problem here. If they can't, welp. I think being allowed to post in S&C should be the default state, and further restrictions should only be imposed if justified.

Fair point. For the time being, I've added S&C to the Purgatory postable fora. If we actually need to restrict it further, we can add another group for that later.

In the long term, I would recommend that the use of this group be explicitly mentioned in the rules. Currently, most rules are quite clear about how bans and warnings would be handed up. I don't think we need to go as far as to strictly codify the Purgatory (although that is also an option that could be considered), but I do think it's important that the existence of this solution is at least mentioned.

I agree.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline Robosteve

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2015, 03:57:39 PM »
Just making sure I can reply here while in Purgatory.

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Offline Excelsior John

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2015, 06:31:25 PM »
A technique that was trialled fairly successfully on the other site is the idea of "Purgatory". That is, a special group for chronic rule-breakers where bans have proven to be ineffective, which allows them to post only in CN and AR, but still browse the other fora. I've just created such a group, and we intend to begin using it effective immediately to deal with repeat offenders.

One thing I'm undecided on is whether members in Purgatory should be able to post in S&C. On the one hand, this enables them to continue to have a voice in how the forum is run. On the other, it also allows them to cause trouble in at least one upper forum. Thoughts?
This hole purgatory thing sownds like a HORIBEL idea!!!!!!! You are trampeling on our 3rd amendmint rites to free speche!!! Such a tyranicel step that wuld be! Parsifal must be a republicen thats why he hates free speche and he is almost as bad as bush! This is why FES is going to heck in a handbaskit!!!!!!!
Viva la FES!
Quote from: Yaakov ben Avraham link=https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59968.msg1544396#msg1544396
Excelsior:...You are clearly a reasonable and intelligent person.

Thork

Re: Purgatory
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2015, 03:06:07 PM »
A technique that was trialled fairly successfully on the other site is the idea of "Purgatory".
I believe that was my idea to deal with the likes of Excelsior John. May I ask who you have put into purgatory this time around?

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Purgatory
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2015, 03:40:20 PM »
Sounds like an interesting thought. Given that I have not been banned in awhile (I seem to have learned how to control my temper, and to know the rule differences between here and the other site), it does sound like a halfway decent idea. Would Purgatory be permanent?

BTW, that would be the First Amendment, EJ. I think a rereading of the Constitution is in order for you. And last I checked, Parsifal was Australian, which would make it hard for him to be Republican, I would think. And "Freedom of Speech" does not actually apply to  privately held fora such as this. As distasteful as you (or even I, occasionally) may find it to be, when one chooses to post on privately owned fora, one has rules to follow. If one doesn't like the rules, one can pack one's  s**t, and go find privately owned fora where one DOES like the rules. But as long as one keeps coming back for more, one subjects oneself to the rules of the privately held fora. In three words, 's**t happens, Dude.".
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 03:50:48 PM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

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Offline xasop

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2015, 04:00:19 PM »
May I ask who you have put into purgatory this time around?

http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?action=mlist;sa=search;search=Purgatory;fields=group

Sounds like an interesting thought. Given that I have not been banned in awhile (I seem to have learned how to control my temper, and to know the rule differences between here and the other site), it does sound like a halfway decent idea. Would Purgatory be permanent?

No; if they demonstrate that they can post without being a nuisance in the lower fora, they're welcome to appeal their Purgatory status at any time. We're not out to punish people, just to ensure they don't disrupt productive discussions.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Purgatory
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2015, 04:28:53 PM »
Good Lord, what did EJ do to end up in Purgatory already? He just got back! Ok, none of my business. I don't know, it seems like a halfway decent idea, though. I'm still navigating the rules here myself, though. I think that is the only big problem between here and the other site. They look alike. One assumes, quite naturally, that they are run alike. In the event of a merger, how would it be run? I think that is a natural question for many of us.

I wish there was some way to spell out the rules of this site, of that site, and of the distinct differences between them, though. That would make it a bit more clear for those of us who navigate both.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Purgatory
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2015, 04:41:34 PM »
Wow, I just went to CN. He has been busy. Now I think I understand why he has been placed in Purgatory, although... well, I guess it is still not of my business. Rejected by the Ivy Leagues. Well...

Anyway, back to the subject at hand. I was ready to greet him with a hearty handshake. Since I spend very little time in CN, I guess that won't really be possible. Maybe I'll have to make my own thread there just for that purpose.

Anyway, Purgatory sounds like an interesting idea. I just hope I don't wind up there.  ;D ;D

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Offline xasop

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2015, 05:27:02 PM »
EJ was put in Purgatory knowing full well the potential consequences of his actions, and with a history of ineffective bans with no sign of improvement. I waited until after he had seen and replied to this thread to give the move my support so it wouldn't come out of nowhere from his perspective, and he continued to repost the same things we'd already moved to CN in the upper fora after that point.

It's not something we plan to dish out lightly. I sincerely hope we never have to put anyone else in Purgatory again, but it's there as a last resort for people who can't (or don't want to) be rehabilitated.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Purgatory
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2015, 05:34:21 PM »
EJ was put in Purgatory knowing full well the potential consequences of his actions, and with a history of ineffective bans with no sign of improvement. I waited until after he had seen and replied to this thread to give the move my support so it wouldn't come out of nowhere from his perspective, and he continued to repost the same things we'd already moved to CN in the upper fora after that point.

It's not something we plan to dish out lightly. I sincerely hope we never have to put anyone else in Purgatory again, but it's there as a last resort for people who can't (or don't want to) be rehabilitated.

Well, its understandable. It would appear that he is unable to learn the rules here. And I don't deny, the differences between both sites can be hard to grasp. But he couldn't figure out the rules there either, I don't think. Well, life goes on.

Like I said, with my tendency to go off, I hope I don't end up in Purgatory myself.  ;D ;D That being said, I went to give him greetings, and he proceeded to be quite offensive. Not a very cheery fellow. Oh, well.

So, how are things Down Under?

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Offline Excelsior John

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2015, 05:49:27 PM »
What?!! I dont understand this why was I sent to Purgitorey? And plese just dont send my post down to CN just here me owt plese: as far as im concerned I have not brokin any rules. I do vent my anger owt in the lower fora but thats why there the lower fora for crying owt lowd! Plese tell me what I need to do to get owt of here. You must amit that I act vary aproprietley in the uper fora. Wunce agen I have not brokin any rules far as im concerned and I am a palite and civil forum member. Just tell me what I need to do!
Viva la FES!
Quote from: Yaakov ben Avraham link=https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59968.msg1544396#msg1544396
Excelsior:...You are clearly a reasonable and intelligent person.

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Offline Excelsior John

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2015, 05:54:37 PM »
EJ was put in Purgatory knowing full well the potential consequences of his actions, and with a history of ineffective bans with no sign of improvement. I waited until after he had seen and replied to this thread to give the move my support so it wouldn't come out of nowhere from his perspective, and he continued to repost the same things we'd already moved to CN in the upper fora after that point.

It's not something we plan to dish out lightly. I sincerely hope we never have to put anyone else in Purgatory again, but it's there as a last resort for people who can't (or don't want to) be rehabilitated.
What warning did you give me? And I cuntinud to repost that thred becuz I had a serous concern and you kept on ignoring me. Yes it was an act of rebelein but I did it becuz of your tyriney. It says rite in the constatushin that when power becums tyranicel the citizins have the rite to altar or abalish it. Bam.
Viva la FES!
Quote from: Yaakov ben Avraham link=https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59968.msg1544396#msg1544396
Excelsior:...You are clearly a reasonable and intelligent person.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Purgatory
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2015, 06:02:24 PM »
Well, perhaps because the FES is NOT the Government, but a privately held concern, and therefore not subject to the constitution of any country, that might be your first mistake. For someone in college, and taking a politics course, you really need some remedial studies on the subject of what is, and what is not, covered by that document.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2015, 07:24:54 PM »
Perhaps it is possible to have a punishment role. They can post, but no one can see their posts, and they are forever talking to themselves thinking that they are being ignored.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2015, 07:37:21 PM »
Perhaps it is possible to have a punishment role. They can post, but no one can see their posts, and they are forever talking to themselves thinking that they are being ignored.

This has been suggested multiple times at this point and Parsifal claimed it wouldn't be hard to implement. "Shadow banning" people seems like a good way to punish repeat offenders, causing them to waste their own time trolling. It would take many posts before someone realized they've been shadow banned. It does wonders for Reddit, it could work here too.

Thork

Re: Purgatory
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2015, 08:06:04 PM »
I think that shadow banning would contravene the society's mantra of free speech. Ensuring someone only speaks in a particular area does at least allow them to have interactions with others and say what they want. If you prevent everyone from seeing someone's posts, you effectively disconnected them from the society. If you are going to do that, you may as well have the balls to ban them properly.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Purgatory
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2015, 08:13:40 PM »
I have to agree with Th*rk. What's the point of shadow banning when you could just hand them a regular ban? It's better for the offender and the society as a whole that they know they are being punished and what they are being punished for.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Purgatory
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2015, 08:23:27 PM »
Shadow-banning is definitely chicken-s**t. If you are going to ban someone, do it openly and honestly, or put them in Purgatory. But don't fake them out with a shadow-ban. That's crap.