Ghost of V

Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2014, 08:08:39 PM »
Which part is incorrect?

Transgenderism affects everyone, especially younger generations because it tells people that it's okay to accept something that isn't true. The only reason someone couldn't get away with identifying as a gorilla, for example, is that it would be completely obvious that he/she wasn't one. People can get away with transgenderism only because their private parts aren't hanging out. I don't see why we should lend any more credence to a man identifying as a woman than to a man identifying as a gorilla.

Men can pretty much morph into a female with the right surgery. This has no logical affect on you, it's completely unrelated (unless it personally offends you, which is what looks like is happening here). It's up to the person in question to make a choice, and it's not your choice to make for them. If they want to cut their penis off and pretend to be a women: good for them. How does this affect you? You believe that children shouldn't be exposed to this sort of thing, but why not? Transgenderism (while arguable if it's nature or nurture), I prefer to think it's caused by nature over nurture. Most children are going to be appalled at the idea of cutting their junk off to begin with unless they're suffering from some chemical imbalance (which is usually the cause for most transgender cases).

Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2014, 09:59:40 PM »
Daily Mail time!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2634522/Why-NHS-doctors-helping-16-year-old-boy-against-wishes-A-mother-tells-distress-utter-helplessness-beloved-daughters-decision-change-sex.html

"Megan was deemed old enough to make this radical decision without our input"

The end.

And from the sounds of it she won't get the surgery for another two years. So shut the fuck up mom you're not the boss of me.

Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2014, 10:16:25 PM »
Which part is incorrect?

Transgenderism affects everyone, especially younger generations because it tells people that it's okay to accept something that isn't true. The only reason someone couldn't get away with identifying as a gorilla, for example, is that it would be completely obvious that he/she wasn't one. People can get away with transgenderism only because their private parts aren't hanging out. I don't see why we should lend any more credence to a man identifying as a woman than to a man identifying as a gorilla.

Men can pretty much morph into a female with the right surgery. This has no logical affect on you, it's completely unrelated (unless it personally offends you, which is what looks like is happening here). It's up to the person in question to make a choice, and it's not your choice to make for them. If they want to cut their penis off and pretend to be a women: good for them. How does this affect you? You believe that children shouldn't be exposed to this sort of thing, but why not? Transgenderism (while arguable if it's nature or nurture), I prefer to think it's caused by nature over nurture. Most children are going to be appalled at the idea of cutting their junk off to begin with unless they're suffering from some chemical imbalance (which is usually the cause for most transgender cases).

Men could pretty much morph into a gorilla with the right surgery. They'd just need a lot of hair transplants.

Ghost of V

Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2014, 10:18:25 PM »
Men could pretty much morph into a gorilla with the right surgery. They'd just need a lot of hair transplants.

Good for them. I don't care if humans want to be apes either.

Either way, Andrew used a straw man argument, and you're using the same one.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2014, 10:28:14 PM »
Technically mtf transgenders don't cut off their penis, but rather it is converted in to a sexually functional vagina.
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Offline xasop

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #65 on: May 24, 2014, 04:58:58 AM »
People may have missed this:

Transgenderism does not necessarily imply physical alterations of any kind.

Here's a helpful link: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/transgender

In fact, since I reject social gender expectations entirely, one could consider me to be transgender by the second definition of the adjective form on that page.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 05:00:48 AM by Parsifal »
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #66 on: May 24, 2014, 05:10:51 AM »
Here's a helpful link: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/transgender

In fact, since I reject social gender expectations entirely, one could consider me to be transgender by the second definition of the adjective form on that page.
I would think most people can since very broadly it refers to someone that identifies with elements of both genders. So in that sense a tom boy or a sensitive man would be a transgender, but that's clearly not the common usage of the term.

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Offline xasop

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2014, 05:25:25 AM »
I would think most people can since very broadly it refers to someone that identifies with elements of both genders. So in that sense a tom boy or a sensitive man would be a transgender, but that's clearly not the common usage of the term.

Sure, and in this thread I'm assuming we mean the first definition, but even so there is no implication of physical changes.

Most people in this thread probably mean transsexual.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline jroa

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #68 on: May 24, 2014, 09:02:13 AM »
Shut the fuck up, Blanko.  We are not turning this into another discussion about dicks.

Then, why are you trying to turn this into another discussion about dicks? 

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #69 on: May 24, 2014, 09:17:04 AM »
Here's a helpful link: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/transgender
Most trans* people I know firmly reject dictionary/DSM definitions of these terms. While your point that transgenderism doesn't imply physical alterations is not something I disagree with, I don't think using dictionary definitions to argue something about people who reject them is a good idea.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #70 on: May 24, 2014, 09:21:33 AM »
Which part is incorrect?

Transgenderism affects everyone, especially younger generations because it tells people that it's okay to accept something that isn't true. The only reason someone couldn't get away with identifying as a gorilla, for example, is that it would be completely obvious that he/she wasn't one. People can get away with transgenderism only because their private parts aren't hanging out. I don't see why we should lend any more credence to a man identifying as a woman than to a man identifying as a gorilla.

Men can pretty much morph into a female with the right surgery. This has no logical affect on you, it's completely unrelated (unless it personally offends you, which is what looks like is happening here). It's up to the person in question to make a choice, and it's not your choice to make for them. If they want to cut their penis off and pretend to be a women: good for them. How does this affect you? You believe that children shouldn't be exposed to this sort of thing, but why not? Transgenderism (while arguable if it's nature or nurture), I prefer to think it's caused by nature over nurture. Most children are going to be appalled at the idea of cutting their junk off to begin with unless they're suffering from some chemical imbalance (which is usually the cause for most transgender cases).

What? I'm not talking about surgery.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #71 on: May 24, 2014, 02:49:33 PM »
Which part is incorrect?

Transgenderism affects everyone, especially younger generations because it tells people that it's okay to accept something that isn't true.

The truth about gender is that it is not solely a physiological idea. It has a psychological and sociological component that gets inaccurately excluded from the conversation when you make statements like this.

« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 02:51:08 PM by Rama Set »
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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #72 on: May 24, 2014, 03:34:33 PM »
The truth about gender is that it is not solely a physiological idea. It has a psychological and sociological component that gets inaccurately excluded from the conversation when you make statements like this.
By "social component" do you mean gender roles?
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Offline Blanko

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #73 on: May 24, 2014, 03:37:51 PM »
The truth about gender is that it is not solely a physiological idea. It has a psychological and sociological component that gets inaccurately excluded from the conversation when you make statements like this.
By "social component" do you mean gender roles?

Yes. What else is gender, anyway?

To me transgenderism is just saying "I want to submit to these expectations instead of these ones". I mean, that is if you want to separate sex from gender. I don't see gender as anything more than the social aspect of what comes from biological sexes.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #74 on: May 24, 2014, 04:07:40 PM »
The truth about gender is that it is not solely a physiological idea. It has a psychological and sociological component that gets inaccurately excluded from the conversation when you make statements like this.
By "social component" do you mean gender roles?

Yes and no. This may be semantic but each component of gender I listed has a role to play. Admittedly the social and psychological roles are more fluid.
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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #75 on: May 24, 2014, 04:28:59 PM »
Yes and no. This may be semantic but each component of gender I listed has a role to play. Admittedly the social and psychological roles are more fluid.
Right, but you do mean roles?
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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #76 on: May 24, 2014, 04:39:56 PM »
It's to do with the perception of gender in society.

If gender was truly neutral socially then I very much doubt people would be transgender/transexual.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #77 on: May 24, 2014, 07:57:38 PM »
Yes and no. This may be semantic but each component of gender I listed has a role to play. Admittedly the social and psychological roles are more fluid.
Right, but you do mean roles?

Yes I do.

EDIT: I think sociological gender would also encompass social cuing through body language as well, although I am sure some will disagree. "Feminine" flirtation is manifested differently than "masculine" flirtation, etc..
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 08:05:38 PM by Rama Set »
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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #78 on: May 24, 2014, 09:59:03 PM »
I see your point. I'm just not sure if transgenderism is the right answer to the problem here. I think I'd rather simply oppose gender* roles, which I pretty much do myself anyway. Sometimes I do things that would generally be perceived as feminine, and I have considered identifying as trans-something in the past. Ultimately, I reached a point where I'm perfectly comfortable with my gender, and I simply express myself in the ways I want.

Of course, your mileage may vary, but it just seems to me like this kind of approach could solve the problems of many people without resorting to very drastic changes. I'm sure that this is not something that would work for everyone, however.

* - I lack a better word for this, so I'm just going to carry on using it, but I'm confident I'm in agreement with Rama as to the specifics of the roles.
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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #79 on: May 25, 2014, 03:20:36 PM »
Sometimes I do things that would generally be perceived as feminine

Such as?