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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2014, 03:10:52 AM »
I think that using surgery to radically alter your physical appearance and butcher your sexual organs is a poor way to deal with what is at heart a psychological issue.  I am actually an extremely liberal guy about most things, but I think that the notion that we should just accept this practice because "this is who these people are" is taking things a bit too far.


Why did you use quotation marks?  Do you have some reason to doubt the sincerity of people claiming to be transgendered?

Well, it's more that this is categorically not who these people are.  If I go through the kind of physical alterations Robert Downey Jr's character went through in Tropic Thunder it does not make me a black man, no matter how much I might wish I was born one or how much I might identify with them.  This is no different.

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  It is truly disgusting.

Can you elaborate?  This comment strikes me as pure knee-jerk but I would like to know if there is more to it.

You want me to elaborate on how permanently butchering oneself is a disgusting thing to do?  Seriously?  I don't even know how to answer that; I feel just the description is ample enough explanation.

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Whatever happened to just learning to accept ourselves for who we are?  Does that not apply if we have difficulty accepting that we are male, or female?

Let's assume that psychological routes have been exhausted and the difference between gender perception and gender physiology still causes great distress to someone, how would you propose alleviating their suffering?

Well, they can just do what people did before we had drugs and therapy and major sexual organ butchering surgery.  Deal with it.  I learned to accept that my life isn't perfect and that I will never be perfectly satisfied with it a long time ago.

We all have problems.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2014, 03:14:25 AM »
Why should somebody just "deal with it" if there are other options? To avoid making you uncomfortable?

Deal with it.  I learned to accept that my life isn't perfect and that I will never be perfectly satisfied with it a long time ago.

That's very brave of you, but unless we include being a bit dim or thinking The Big Bang Theory is funny, you probably weren't born with any serious psychological issues. I would imagine that believing yourself to be trapped in the body of the wrong gender is pretty distressing by itself, and when you combine that with the societal stigma and prejudice present pretty much everywhere in the world, you have a recipe for a serious and, unless dealt with, permanent mental illness.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 03:30:46 AM by Alexandyr »
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2014, 03:29:04 AM »
Why should somebody just "deal with it" if there are other options? To avoid making you uncomfortable?

Precisely.

Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2014, 03:43:24 AM »
Wasn't someone just making the argument that transgenderism wasn't a psychological disorder?  Now it's being defended because it is a psychological disorder. 

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2014, 03:45:12 AM »
Wasn't someone just making the argument that transgenderism wasn't a psychological disorder?  Now it's being defended because it is a psychological disorder.

More than one person is posting in this thread. Contrary to popular belief, we aren't all Saddam's alts.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

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Offline xasop

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2014, 03:45:23 AM »
You want me to elaborate on how permanently butchering oneself is a disgusting thing to do?  Seriously?  I don't even know how to answer that; I feel just the description is ample enough explanation.

Transgenderism does not necessarily imply physical alterations of any kind.

I find surgically altering one's physical sex repulsive in the same way that I find oversized earrings and tattoos repulsive. That doesn't mean people shouldn't do it, I just wouldn't do it and probably wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who did. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with any transgender person.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Rama Set

Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2014, 03:47:08 AM »
I think that using surgery to radically alter your physical appearance and butcher your sexual organs is a poor way to deal with what is at heart a psychological issue.  I am actually an extremely liberal guy about most things, but I think that the notion that we should just accept this practice because "this is who these people are" is taking things a bit too far.


Why did you use quotation marks?  Do you have some reason to doubt the sincerity of people claiming to be transgendered?

Well, it's more that this is categorically not who these people are.  If I go through the kind of physical alterations Robert Downey Jr's character went through in Tropic Thunder it does not make me a black man, no matter how much I might wish I was born one or how much I might identify with them.  This is no different.

Many transgendered people have the experience of -always- feeling like a man in a woman's body or vice versa and they go through extensive psychological testing in Canada to as sure as possible that people undergoing sexual reassignment surgery are not just in some deep delusion+depression of something of that sort.

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  It is truly disgusting.

Can you elaborate?  This comment strikes me as pure knee-jerk but I would like to know if there is more to it.

You want me to elaborate on how permanently butchering oneself is a disgusting thing to do?  Seriously?  I don't even know how to answer that; I feel just the description is ample enough explanation.

Sexual reassigment surgery from man to woman can create a fully functioning vagina, in sexual terms and breast implants have long become somewhat normal.  Some transexuals are so well transitioned that they are mistaken for cis-sexual people:



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Whatever happened to just learning to accept ourselves for who we are?  Does that not apply if we have difficulty accepting that we are male, or female?

Let's assume that psychological routes have been exhausted and the difference between gender perception and gender physiology still causes great distress to someone, how would you propose alleviating their suffering?

Well, they can just do what people did before we had drugs and therapy and major sexual organ butchering surgery.  Deal with it.  I learned to accept that my life isn't perfect and that I will never be perfectly satisfied with it a long time ago.

We all have problems.
And many people receive medical attention for their problems.  As has been echoed already, I am not sure why people who are transgendered should be made to lead a conflict-filled life if it is unnecessary.

Rama Set

Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2014, 03:47:52 AM »
Wasn't someone just making the argument that transgenderism wasn't a psychological disorder?  Now it's being defended because it is a psychological disorder. 

It has a psychological and a physiological component.

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2014, 04:34:15 AM »
Parsifal would gladly have sex with a man.
The Mastery.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2014, 04:44:03 AM »
You want me to elaborate on how permanently butchering oneself is a disgusting thing to do?  Seriously?  I don't even know how to answer that; I feel just the description is ample enough explanation.

I didn't think it was that big of an issue, Americans systematically butcher their newborn babies.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2014, 05:32:57 AM »
You want me to elaborate on how permanently butchering oneself is a disgusting thing to do?  Seriously?  I don't even know how to answer that; I feel just the description is ample enough explanation.

I didn't think it was that big of an issue, Americans systematically butcher their newborn babies.
As do Jews. Are Jews real hip with transgenders?

Offline Blanko

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2014, 05:37:50 AM »
You want me to elaborate on how permanently butchering oneself is a disgusting thing to do?  Seriously?  I don't even know how to answer that; I feel just the description is ample enough explanation.

I didn't think it was that big of an issue, Americans systematically butcher their newborn babies.
As do Jews. Are Jews real hip with transgenders?

Why wouldn't they be? Transgenders are very profitable.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2014, 01:00:25 PM »
Shut the fuck up, Blanko.  We are not turning this into another discussion about dicks.

Rama Set

Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2014, 01:13:04 PM »
Shut the fuck up, Blanko.  We are not turning this into another discussion about dicks.

Chicks with dicks

Offline Blanko

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2014, 01:18:49 PM »
Shut the fuck up, Blanko.  We are not turning this into another discussion about dicks.

I didn't say anything about dicks.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2014, 02:55:47 PM »
I didn't say anything about dicks.

What exactly are you talking about, then? I'm sure every could appreciate a more detailed argument.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2014, 03:02:04 PM »
I didn't say anything about dicks.

What exactly are you talking about, then? I'm sure every could appreciate a more detailed argument.

Yeah, I'm sure you'd love to hear about it :^)


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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2014, 07:58:00 PM »
Which part is incorrect?

Transgenderism affects everyone, especially younger generations because it tells people that it's okay to accept something that isn't true. The only reason someone couldn't get away with identifying as a gorilla, for example, is that it would be completely obvious that he/she wasn't one. People can get away with transgenderism only because their private parts aren't hanging out. I don't see why we should lend any more credence to a man identifying as a woman than to a man identifying as a gorilla.

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Re: Transgenderism
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2014, 08:04:19 PM »
I'm honestly on the fence about transgenderism myself.

I can accept both of the arguments here. It seems like it may be a disconnect with society's gender norms like Parsifal said. And if it can help people be the person they truly feel they are then sure, why not? It's their choice, not mine.

But ultimately the issue seems bigger than a personal one which is how I feel about cosmetic surgery in general. People aren't comfortable with aging, women aren't comfortable with small breasts. It doesn't bother me when an individual has cosmetic surgery, but it bothers me that society makes them feel like they need it in order to be comfortable with themselves.