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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11320 on: April 20, 2024, 02:46:53 AM »
As the snipped article explains concisely, this is meant to resolve the fact that the Secret Service can hardly be expected to protect someone serving a prison term. If Trump does end up having to serve time, then something will have to be done about his Secret Service protection. Trump is not going to be strolling around the prison yard flanked by Secret Service agents. That's not a thing that any prison would ever allow.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11321 on: April 20, 2024, 03:14:34 AM »
Do they want to train and equip the prison guards to provide secret service level security? That is the only way your argument makes sense that they are genuine in this.

The answer is no. They do not want guarantee Trump the same level of security.

You can read their fact sheet on the bill here: https://democrats-homeland.house.gov/download/disgraced-former-protectees-act-factsheet
« Last Edit: April 20, 2024, 03:48:56 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11322 on: April 20, 2024, 05:39:17 AM »
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11323 on: April 20, 2024, 05:43:14 AM »
Do they want to train and equip the prison guards to provide secret service level security? That is the only way your argument makes sense that they are genuine in this.

The answer is no. They do not want guarantee Trump the same level of security.

Why should they?
If someone ends up in prison then they lose certain rights. Which is something I imagine you generally support. Unless it affects your cult leader.

It’s all moot anyway. There’s no way Trump will end up in prison
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11324 on: April 20, 2024, 08:13:40 AM »
Apparently the Congressional Left has gone from opposing gay marriage and upholding and respecting religious tenets to trying to get their opponent murdered.



https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook-pm/2024/04/19/will-dems-bailout-of-johnson-turn-bitter-00132333

Makes sense.  Would you want Joe Biden to have SS protection in Jail?  How would that even work?
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11325 on: April 20, 2024, 01:59:31 PM »
Do they want to train and equip the prison guards to provide secret service level security? That is the only way your argument makes sense that they are genuine in this.

The answer is no. They do not want guarantee Trump the same level of security.

Why should they?
If someone ends up in prison then they lose certain rights. Which is something I imagine you generally support. Unless it affects your cult leader.

It’s all moot anyway. There’s no way Trump will end up in prison

This is incorrect in regards to political power. Someone who is in prison can be elected President. They don't lose that right to be elected, or their powers.

Major presidential candidates have been given Secret Service protection to safeguard elections, and as a matter of law:

https://www.secretservice.gov/protection/leaders/campaign-2024

Quote
Who Receives Protection?

The Secret Service does not determine who qualifies for protection, nor is the Secret Service empowered to independently initiate candidate protection.

Under 18 U.S.C.' 3056(a)(7), "[m]ajor Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates," as identified by the Secretary of Homeland Security, are eligible for Secret Service protection.

Title 18 U.S.C.' 3056(a)(7) authorizes the U.S. Secret Service to provide protection for major Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates:

- Protection is authorized by the DHS Secretary after consultation with the Congressional Advisory Committee;

- The Congressional Advisory Committee includes: Speaker of the House, House Minority Leader, Senate Majority Leader, Senate Minority Leader, and one additional member selected by the others;

- Protection under these guidelines should only be granted within one year prior to the general election. Protection more than one year prior to the general election should only be granted in extraordinary, case by case circumstances in consultation with the committee, based on threat assessment and other factors.

The laws above say that major presidential candidates should be receiving Secret Service protection.

Makes sense.  Would you want Joe Biden to have SS protection in Jail?  How would that even work?

Political assassinations have more effect than the benefit of a single party. No, I wouldn't want Joe Biden in his role of US President to be in a jail without Secret Service protection.

Friend of yours, Tom?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68858408

Looks like a disgruntled Bernie Bro.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2024, 02:21:45 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11326 on: April 20, 2024, 03:00:29 PM »
Do they want to train and equip the prison guards to provide secret service level security? That is the only way your argument makes sense that they are genuine in this.

The answer is no. They do not want guarantee Trump the same level of security.

Why should they?
If someone ends up in prison then they lose certain rights. Which is something I imagine you generally support. Unless it affects your cult leader.

It’s all moot anyway. There’s no way Trump will end up in prison

This is incorrect in regards to political power. Someone who is in prison can be elected President. They don't lose that right to be elected, or their powers.

Major presidential candidates have been given Secret Service protection to safeguard elections, and as a matter of law:

https://www.secretservice.gov/protection/leaders/campaign-2024

Quote
Who Receives Protection?

The Secret Service does not determine who qualifies for protection, nor is the Secret Service empowered to independently initiate candidate protection.

Under 18 U.S.C.' 3056(a)(7), "[m]ajor Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates," as identified by the Secretary of Homeland Security, are eligible for Secret Service protection.

Title 18 U.S.C.' 3056(a)(7) authorizes the U.S. Secret Service to provide protection for major Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates:

- Protection is authorized by the DHS Secretary after consultation with the Congressional Advisory Committee;

- The Congressional Advisory Committee includes: Speaker of the House, House Minority Leader, Senate Majority Leader, Senate Minority Leader, and one additional member selected by the others;

- Protection under these guidelines should only be granted within one year prior to the general election. Protection more than one year prior to the general election should only be granted in extraordinary, case by case circumstances in consultation with the committee, based on threat assessment and other factors.

The laws above say that major presidential candidates should be receiving Secret Service protection.

Makes sense.  Would you want Joe Biden to have SS protection in Jail?  How would that even work?

Political assassinations have more effect than the benefit of a single party. No, I wouldn't want Joe Biden in his role of US President to be in a jail without Secret Service protection.

Friend of yours, Tom?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68858408

Looks like a disgruntled Bernie Bro.



1. Can he even be on the ticket as a republican if he's in jail?
2. Don't you trust the police to keep him safe?
3. Would you say his ideas were liberal?  And lies?
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11327 on: April 20, 2024, 03:31:42 PM »
Again, if Trump is imprisoned, then the Secret Service will not be accompanying him into prison. It makes perfect sense to resolve the obvious conflict that would arise between the Secret Service and the prison by stripping convicted felons of Secret Service protection. Ignoring this problem will not make it go away. I'm not claiming to know exactly how Trump's imprisonment should be handled. I'm just saying that you can't imprison someone with Secret Service protection.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11328 on: April 20, 2024, 03:35:48 PM »
I'm just saying that you can't imprison someone with Secret Service protection.

That's not remotely true, especially for a high profile prisoner. Even if Trump were sentenced to "prison" it would likely end up a form of house arrest. Trump isn't going to go to some random state or federal prison. The Secret Service ensure Trump can't reveal things to people just as much as they protect him. Allowing a rambling old man who knows more national security information than most people into a prison is ridiculous.

Even cops have their own special protection and service personnel in prisons. I'd say Trump is quite a bit more high profile than random cops.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2024, 03:37:29 PM by Rushy »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11329 on: April 20, 2024, 05:32:21 PM »
I'm just saying that you can't imprison someone with Secret Service protection.

That's not remotely true, especially for a high profile prisoner. Even if Trump were sentenced to "prison" it would likely end up a form of house arrest. Trump isn't going to go to some random state or federal prison. The Secret Service ensure Trump can't reveal things to people just as much as they protect him. Allowing a rambling old man who knows more national security information than most people into a prison is ridiculous.

Even cops have their own special protection and service personnel in prisons. I'd say Trump is quite a bit more high profile than random cops.

I suspect you overestimate what he actually knows.  He's not known to be the most attentive or sharpest president we've had.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.


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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11331 on: April 24, 2024, 02:24:02 AM »
The Secret Service ensure Trump can't reveal things to people just as much as they protect him.

The fact that Secret Service protection for former presidents is an entirely optional service that the protectee is free to decline is enough to prove that this is wrong, and even if it weren't, a little bit of common sense will quickly point out the flaws in that theory. Do the Secret Service agents monitor their protectee's phone or intercept and read everything they write down? Do they suddenly rush in and get uncomfortably close so they can eavesdrop if their protectee is whispering in someone else's ear? Of course not. Their job is to protect VIPs, not to monitor or control them. I would go so far as to speculate that agents are strongly encouraged to avoid listening too closely to what their protectee is saying to other people so as to be seen as more discreet and trustworthy, although that's just my instinct of what the culture of the agency is probably like.

Quote
Even if Trump were sentenced to "prison" it would likely end up a form of house arrest. Trump isn't going to go to some random state or federal prison...Allowing a rambling old man who knows more national security information than most people into a prison is ridiculous.

I agree, but nevertheless, this would be impossible with the Secret Service in their current form. Legislation would be needed to either strip convicted felons of their Secret Service protection and let another agency handle the imprisonment or expand the Secret Service's functions to include providing custody of such a prisoner. I don't think anyone who matters was ever seriously suggesting we should just fling Trump into the general population of any given prison and let him fend for himself, which is exactly why the cries of "they want Trump murdered!" are so disingenuous.

This is what Action80 is talking about, if anyone's wondering and doesn't want to click his link. There's no one single case against Powell, there's no mention of this case being considered "frivolous," and I don't really think it's all that big of a deal whether or not Powell ends up being "disciplined" by the Texas Bar at all.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11332 on: April 24, 2024, 04:17:23 PM »
The fact that Secret Service protection for former presidents is an entirely optional service that the protectee is free to decline is enough to prove that this is wrong, and even if it weren't, a little bit of common sense will quickly point out the flaws in that theory.

Is it optional or is it "optional"?

Do the Secret Service agents monitor their protectee's phone or intercept and read everything they write down?

Yes.

Do they suddenly rush in and get uncomfortably close so they can eavesdrop if their protectee is whispering in someone else's ear?

Whispering is not a valid method of information concealment, so why does it matter?

Their job is to protect VIPs, not to monitor or control them.

That's where you're wrong, kiddo.


Quote
Even if Trump were sentenced to "prison" it would likely end up a form of house arrest. Trump isn't going to go to some random state or federal prison...Allowing a rambling old man who knows more national security information than most people into a prison is ridiculous.

I agree, but nevertheless, this would be impossible with the Secret Service in their current form. Legislation would be needed to either strip convicted felons of their Secret Service protection and let another agency handle the imprisonment or expand the Secret Service's functions to include providing custody of such a prisoner. I don't think anyone who matters was ever seriously suggesting we should just fling Trump into the general population of any given prison and let him fend for himself, which is exactly why the cries of "they want Trump murdered!" are so disingenuous.

This is what Action80 is talking about, if anyone's wondering and doesn't want to click his link. There's no one single case against Powell, there's no mention of this case being considered "frivolous," and I don't really think it's all that big of a deal whether or not Powell ends up being "disciplined" by the Texas Bar at all.

The Secret Service monitoring a person to the point that they are effectively a prisoner is already what they do.

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11333 on: May 01, 2024, 12:04:10 AM »
I have nothing to say in the face of such a thorough rebuttal. Anyway, so much winning:

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/30/1244294199/trump-gag-order-hush-money-trial
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Offline Tom Bishop

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« Last Edit: May 01, 2024, 01:11:19 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11335 on: May 01, 2024, 01:23:09 AM »
Very impressive, Trump now has even more paper wealth that he can't realize or use in any meaningful way.
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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11336 on: May 02, 2024, 04:41:30 PM »
Not even in the top 300? What a loser!
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11337 on: May 02, 2024, 05:29:21 PM »
Wait... So you're bragging that Trump is less wealthy than he was in March?
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.


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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11339 on: May 06, 2024, 02:03:54 PM »
So, an illegitimate "special prosecutor" introduces a bald-faced lie to the court:
https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/trump-says-jack-smith-should-be-arrested-after-documents-revelation-5644083?utm_source=RTNews&src_src=RTNews&utm_campaign=rtbreaking-2024-05-05-2&src_cmp=rtbreaking-2024-05-05-2&utm_medium=email&est=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa%2BcidhsJxcPN%2FrQut3NAH7F5ww0LIzwgbOIBKcVOYUPVwjDotRvn

Wait... OMG!  This proves everything Trump said was right!  Clearly evidence of a box's contents is inadmissable if the position of the items in the box is different than what Trump put them in as.  Why, how many other so called "criminals" been let off because the contents of their safe full of drugs and money were shifted around after the police were there?    Every single one of those cases were thown out once the judge saw that the drugs were moved to the left side and the money on the right.  And yet, here's Trump, being railroaded for the same thing.  What's next: they'll claim his tie is of a different length from the day of the raid to his courtroom appearance?  Sad.  So sad.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.