Re: Circumnavigation World Record Sailing Discrepancies
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2024, 09:18:34 PM »
When we look closer at the details we just see anomalies and that things are not really in accordance with what is generally claimed at face value.

Indeed: the OP (and your next post) rewards closer study.
 
In this sort or race for the "around the world sailing record", the goal wasn't necessarily to make a perfect circumference around the globe for obvious reasons, and is really the fastest time someone could sail a distance of 21,600 nautical miles. Francis Joyon and François Gabart made this path:

https://goldengloberace.com/the-route/



This path takes place further northwards near the continents. The total course is 30,000 miles, but they only count the best time to 21,600 nautical miles for the specific record, since this is the circumference of the RE in RE Theory.

Incorrect.
When Joyon and Gabart and his crew (edit: Gabart took the solo record on a different multihull) lifted the record for sailing around the world, they also won the Jules Verne Trophy and it is a condition of that trophy that record setters begin by crossing a line between Créac’h lighthouse on Ushant Island, off the French north west coast and the Lizard lighthouse off the English south coast. Their time is to sail around the world leaving the Capes of Good Hope, Leeuwin and Horn to port (on the left) and re-cross that same line in the western English Channel, not to complete 21,600 miles. There are no restrictions on the type of yacht used, as long as it is capable of sailing around the world unaided.

That map shows the track of the Golden Globe 2022 race, a race using traditional yachts in the style of Sir Francis Chichester's famous Gipsy Moth IV, which generally takes 9 months to complete and high-tech aids like GPS are forbidden, it's sextants and chronometers for navigation. It starts and finishes at Les Sables-d'Olonne on the French west coast. about 180 miles from Ushant, and there are also mandatory calling points where each yacht stops in close sight of land for 90 minutes.

It looks like you guys are claiming that she had a bad boat. According to Guinness World Records Lisa Blair holds the record for "Fastest circumnavigation of Antarctica by sailboat". She did it in 92 days 18 hours 21 minutes 22 seconds. We know that hundreds of people are trying to beat world records, and there are even yearly races around Antarctica (which we are often pointed to, but the details are rarely discussed). This represents the best boat, so your arguments are pretty invalid.

Joyon's and Gabart's IDEC SPORT (formerly IDEC 3) is 31.5m long, Lisa Blair's Climate Action Now is half that length. IDEC SPORT carries far more sail than Climate Action Now and uses foils which lift the trimaran partly out of the water to reduce drag and increase speed to peaks of over 40 knots; Lisa Blair's boat has none of these. You might think Blair's is a bad boat, others would say it's a completely different boat and so your argument about round-Antarctica times falls.

The race around Antarctica happened in 2008, but does not appear to have happened since. If you know of hard data about more recent Antarctic Cup yacht races, I'd really like to know, I enjoy keeping up with these kind of events.

Finally, for anyone who is interested in sailing closer to the Antarctic ice and the weather and winds encountered, here's an account of Katharsis II skippered by Mariusz Koper, which holds the record for a yacht sailing around Antarctica below 62 deg S latitude. The anomalous winds feature prominently.

https://www.yachtingworld.com/voyages/sailing-antarctica-record-breaking-voyage-around-southern-continent-123341
« Last Edit: October 09, 2024, 09:50:47 PM by Longtitube »
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Re: Circumnavigation World Record Sailing Discrepancies
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2024, 01:22:23 PM »
Interesting post Longtitube, and the best part is in the, almost throwaway, last paragraph. 

It's becoming clear that there are several categories for the "Record"; above and below certain latitudes, class of vessel, and single/multi crew.  Mariusz Koper's journey in Katharsis II is extraordinary.  Lets put it straight out there that this was a multicrew effort, so 24-hour watchkeeping was possible, but it was also a monohull.  Koper's record was performed entirely below 62degS, and achieved in 72 days, actually beating the single-handed monohull RTW record by 2 days. Not only that, but it was not even by the most direct sea-route.  Koper and his crew made a point of following the coast as closely as possible, even diverting south in order to sail on the Ross Sea, the most southerly navigable waters on Earth.  Reading some of his account is astonishing due to the presence of icebergs and floes which had to be avoided. 

You brought up the anomalous winds, but lets put that in context.  They can be strong, but also weak, and variable in direction.  Katharsis II actually encountered winds over 25 knots, but also less than 10.  Another standout, for anyone still under the impession it all blows one way, they anticipated "East winds, which are inconvenient for this route, could accompany us for about a third of the voyage".  And this was not from some commentator, but by the sailors that actually went there and experienced it. 

https://www.yachtingworld.com/voyages/sailing-antarctica-record-breaking-voyage-around-southern-continent-123341

There's lots of citations in the Wiki about the winds, describing them as "strongest on the planet" and so forth, which is not in doubt, but the only use of the term "anomalous" is by the Wiki itself.  And, of course, by Tom. 

Offline Gonzo

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Re: Circumnavigation World Record Sailing Discrepancies
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2024, 04:24:06 AM »
Quite.

The winds in the southern ocean are anomolous only in the fact that they are, on average, stronger in relative terms to those normally found, on average, elsewhere.

We know exactly why this is the case. We can predict them.

It's disingenuous at best to claim or suggest that they are somehow mysteriously strong, and that humankind is continually surprised by them, therefore causing all sorts of odd flight times and sail voyage durations.

Re: Circumnavigation World Record Sailing Discrepancies
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2024, 09:00:42 AM »
Just as an epilogue and summary, Tom said this at Reply#10;

"If you are sure that there is a category where sailing boats have sailed around it in a faster time then I would suggest finding it and then contacting Guinness World Records to inform them that they are incorrect about Lisa Blair holding the record for fastest circumnavigation by sailboat".

Well it turns out we don't need to e-mail Guinness (Tom's arbiter of choice on this subject); they already know.

https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/527119-first-circumnavigation-of-antarctica-in-a-sailboat-south-of-the-60th-parallel

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Circumnavigation World Record Sailing Discrepancies
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2024, 04:31:30 AM »
Did you click on that link and notice the time taken?

Okay, I'm going to claim a win on this one. All of these other mentioned reports of 14,000 mile long circumnavigations around Antarctica took much longer than the 45 day 21,600 mile globe circumnavigation at higher latitudes. It appears that you guys have proven my point for me.

Re: Circumnavigation World Record Sailing Discrepancies
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2024, 12:11:45 PM »
And did you click on the link and notice the Record that was claimed? 

It was nothing to do with speed; the record is for the First Circumnavigation of Antarctica Below 60DegS.  It has never claimed to be the fastest, any more than Apollo 8 claimed to be the fastest to circumnavigate the Moon; it was just the first. 

Capt Koper specified that they did not take the fastest or most direct route, simply because they wanted to remain close to the undulating coast and take the opportunity to sail in previously un-sailed waters.  The record was ratified by the WSSRC simply because they are the body with the wherewithal to monitor such activities.  Even so, it was still faster than previously recorded Antarctica-circumnavigation records. 

 

Offline Action80

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Re: Circumnavigation World Record Sailing Discrepancies
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2024, 05:04:07 PM »

Capt Koper specified that they did not take the fastest or most direct route, simply because they wanted to remain close to the undulating coast and take the opportunity to sail in previously un-sailed waters.

Where did he specify what you claim?
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.