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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #680 on: July 29, 2014, 07:07:20 AM »
The specifics of his physical appearance were probably inspired by Ardhanarishvara, the androgynous combination of the Hindu gods Shiva and Parvati.



THAT's dumb.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #681 on: July 29, 2014, 07:30:23 AM »
Why isn't his eye red on his Dunmer side?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #682 on: July 29, 2014, 07:48:31 AM »
Good question. Presumably just an oversight on Bethesda's part. His eyes are different in the concept art.



The discrepancy is there, but I think Bethesda deserves the blame for this one, not ZeniMax.  They should have bitten the bullet and admitted they were retconning Cyrodiil a long time ago, rather than dragging it out with the CHIM thing.  They knew this game was coming, and they knew that Cyrodiil wasn't going to have any wacky jungle design in it.

ZO could have simply said that Tiber's manipulation of the environment worked retroactively as well. There's already a precedent for CHIM usage affecting time both ways, in the form of Vivec's revision of his own past. Instead, it's a transcription error.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 12:01:16 PM by Alexandyr »
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #683 on: July 29, 2014, 01:28:15 PM »
Michael Kirkbride became obsessed with him, and wrote at least a novel's worth of information regarding his life. In fact, he still occasionally produces new tidbits of (usually very obscure) lore related to Morrowind and Vivec.

I've heard about that.  His writings are somewhat controversial in the fan community.  Some people say that he's a magnificent writer working tirelessly to enrich the lore; others say that without Bethesda officially "endorsing" the stuff he writes, he's really just a guy writing copious amounts of fanfiction.  The truth most likely lies somewhere in the middle.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 03:16:05 PM by Saddam Hussein »

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #684 on: July 29, 2014, 01:48:33 PM »
Praise Vivec!
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #685 on: July 29, 2014, 02:01:55 PM »
Although MK hasn't been a full time Bethesda employee since 2000, he has consistently been doing work for them as an independent contractor ever since. He has been hugely important in shaping the series. Some even go as far as to say that without Kirkbride, the Elder Scrolls would just be another typical Tolkein-fantasy borefest. All of the most important religious texts in the series were written by him: The 36 Lessons of Vivec, The Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, The Song of Pelinal, and the Nu-Mantia Intercept (most of which later became part of the Book of the Dragonborn). Bethesda even uses material that he creates on his own time. Heimksr quotes passages from From The Many Headed Talos verbatim. The Seven Fights of the Aldudagga and The Five Hundred Mighty Companions or Thereabouts of Ysgramor the Returned are responsible for a lot of lore elements in Skyrim, including Whiterun's Companions and the culture of giants.

There's no debate regarding whether or not Bethesda endorses MK's work. The controversy arises from ES fans who can't stomach his more outlandish works - particularly the science fiction. Loveletter From the 5th Era and C0DA, for example. Both can be read here. Some people think that this sort of thing has no place in muh dungeons and dragons. Joke's on them, though. The Elder Scrolls has been sci-fi fantasy ever since work began on Morrowind.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 08:00:11 AM by Alexandyr »
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #686 on: July 29, 2014, 02:08:38 PM »
And he also wrote Mankar Camoran's dialogue in Oblivion.  His influence is undeniable!

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #687 on: July 29, 2014, 02:13:48 PM »
Yes, well, nobody's perfect.

The 36 Lessons of Vivec is my favorite text in the series. At one point, Vivec inserts his "milk finger" into some woman's mouth to prevent her from using Thu'um.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 02:16:24 PM by Alexandyr »
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #688 on: July 29, 2014, 09:46:48 PM »
Has Bethesda ever said explicitly that the stuff that Kirkbride writes is automatically valid lore, or does it just become lore if Bethesda decides to quote it in-game?

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #689 on: July 30, 2014, 12:09:57 AM »
No, they have never explicitly said that we must listen to this guy all the time. Otherwise there wouldn't be any controversy. They've also never contradicted any of his supplementary works.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #690 on: July 30, 2014, 12:41:41 AM »
No, they have never explicitly said that we must listen to this guy all the time. Otherwise there wouldn't be any controversy. They've also never contradicted any of his supplementary works.

Ha!  Then there is a debate!  But you do raise a good point, Bethesda has never firmly denied that this space opera is an official part of the Elder Scrolls universe, so...
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 05:30:18 AM by Saddam Hussein »

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #691 on: July 30, 2014, 07:04:16 AM »
I saw a mod for Skyrim once that adds Pelinal Whitestrake in his Crusader armour as a follower. And the description claims that he's a cyborg from the future, and that it's canon. I tried to look for proof of this but came up with nothing. Know anything about this?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #692 on: July 30, 2014, 07:52:06 AM »
No, they have never explicitly said that we must listen to this guy all the time. Otherwise there wouldn't be any controversy. They've also never contradicted any of his supplementary works.

Ha!  Then there is a debate!  But you do raise a good point, Bethesda has never firmly denied that this space opera is an official part of the Elder Scrolls universe, so...

Right. I should have said that Bethesda has endorsed a lot of his work. He's remained good friends with a lot of the people at BGS, and I'm sure he'll continue to work with them in the future. I heard a rumor that he offered to write for ESO, but was rejected. Which reminds me...



I saw a mod for Skyrim once that adds Pelinal Whitestrake in his Crusader armour as a follower. And the description claims that he's a cyborg from the future, and that it's canon. I tried to look for proof of this but came up with nothing. Know anything about this?

Yes. Two of MK's posts addressing Pelinal:

Quote
Pelinal, his closest mythical model would be Gilgamesh, with a dash of a T-800 thrown in, and a full-serving of brain-fracture slaughterhouse antinomial (Kill)3 functions stuck in his hand or head. We tend to forgive those heroes.

Quote
Pelinal was and is an insane collective swarmfoam war-fractal from the future, you betcha.
(in response to the question "is Pelinal really a cyborg?")

All of his forum posts are archived here.

Here are a few passages from The Song of Pelinal:

Quote
    he was Pelinal the Whitestrake because of his left hand, made of a killing light
[...]
    [And then] Kyne granted Perrif another symbol, a diamond soaked red with the blood of elves, [whose] facets could [un-sector and form] into a man whose every angle could cut her jailers and a name: PELIN-EL [which is] "The Star-Made Knight" [and he] was arrayed in armor [from the future time].
[...]
    [and they] fell on him [speaking] to their weapons... cutting the Pelinal into eighths while he roared in confusion [which even] the Council of Skiffs [could hear]
[...]
    It was Morihaus who found the Whitestrake's head, which the kings had left to prove their deeds and they spoke and Pelinal said things of regrets...

Apart from the ellipses, the bracketed text is not my doing. That's how it's written. The full manuscript can be read here.

Oh, I asked some guy on /r/teslore why he didn't accept MK's "far future shit", and he responded:

Quote
Because his trippy future is divorced from the current narrative Elder Scrolls is telling in Betheda's hands and Kirkbride personally called me an expletive-laced string of words.

Classic Cockbird.


« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 07:59:05 AM by Alexandyr »
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #693 on: July 30, 2014, 09:05:01 AM »
Quote
And for the last time (uh huh), Nedes != Atmorans. That's just shoddy scholarship from a bygone regime.
Ha! I knew it! TESO has got it wrong.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #694 on: July 30, 2014, 02:16:21 PM »
Yikes...can't say I'm particularly fond of the sci-fi time-traveling robot things either.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #695 on: July 30, 2014, 02:42:43 PM »
Robots (or automatons, if you want to sound cool) are nothing new to ES, though. They've been around for as long as Arena, in the form of iron golems. Of course, they didn't have a major presence until Redguard introduced the Dwemer. Time travel and the idea of non-linear time has also been a part of the series for a very long time. "Robot" is just a convenient and simple comparison to make. Shapeshifting diamond battle lattice or insane collective swarmfoam war-fractal aren't quite as accessible as descriptions.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #696 on: July 30, 2014, 03:21:49 PM »
all elder scrolls sucks nob
NOTHING TO SEE HERE. IGNORE RAMA SET.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #697 on: July 30, 2014, 04:17:40 PM »
ebic mene

Just found this. I don't know enough about the cosmology to nitpick, but I'm sure there are problems. It's cool, though. I'm a little miffed that the flat plane is reserved for the "crazy" prince, but at least one of them got it right.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #698 on: July 30, 2014, 10:09:52 PM »
Here we see Kirkbride's unique contribution to TESO lore:

http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/1oa0q9/queen_ayrenn_was_and_is_named_properly_kinmune/

And to think that ZeniMax actually chose not to give this guy a job.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #699 on: July 31, 2014, 07:22:08 AM »
 :-\
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