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Offline WTF_Seriously

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #60 on: June 14, 2022, 04:28:27 PM »
Because belief in the space agency claims doesn't come with belief in unattainable technologies you can never know, right.  ::)

So,  you don't understand the context of the quote in relation to the video subject.  Got it.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 04:37:18 PM by WTF_Seriously »
Flat-Earthers seem to have a very low standard of evidence for what they want to believe but an impossibly high standard of evidence for what they don’t want to believe.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #61 on: June 14, 2022, 09:46:19 PM »
Because belief in the space agency claims doesn't come with belief in unattainable technologies you can never know, right.  ::)
To which "unattainable technologies" are you referring?
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Offline Gonzo

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #62 on: June 14, 2022, 09:50:02 PM »
Tom,

Please, it would really help us if you could express your belief on what the Soviets achieved in space.

To me your position is confusing.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #63 on: June 14, 2022, 11:24:13 PM »
Because belief in the space agency claims doesn't come with belief in unattainable technologies you can never know, right.  ::)

So,  you don't understand the context of the quote in relation to the video subject.  Got it.

I've seen it. The man appears to agree that the low-gravity astronaut scenes on the moon could have just been an astronaut in a studio in slow motion, but claims that NASA couldn't figure out how to make a video slow motion, so it's real.

Come on. Even if he was correct that no technologies existed at the time which could make the film run in slow motion (which I have some doubts), even in the Moon Hoax scenario NASA clearly employed engineers and rocket scientists who are making things. Apparently according to this narrative Moon Hoax NASA would have sooner ended the project and admit that they couldn't get to the moon than to use their engineers to make a video run in slow motion.

I'm pretty sure you just need to regulate the motor's current and it can go faster or slower and that the technology necessary to do slow-motion is nowhere near the sentiment "YOU'VE STEPPED OVER INTO THE REALM OF MAGIC" in the image you posted.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 12:00:30 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #64 on: June 14, 2022, 11:58:11 PM »
According to Wikipedia magical slow motion was done in the early 20th century:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_motion

"Slow motion (commonly abbreviated as slo-mo or slow-mo) is an effect in film-making whereby time appears to be slowed down. It was invented by the Austrian priest August Musger in the early 20th century. This can be accomplished through the use of high-speed cameras and then playing the footage produced by such cameras at a normal rate like 30 fps, or in post production through the use of software."

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Offline BillO

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #65 on: June 15, 2022, 12:20:31 AM »
I'm pretty sure you just need to regulate the motor's current and it can go faster or slower and that the technology necessary to do slow-motion is nowhere near the sentiment "YOU'VE STEPPED OVER INTO THE REALM OF MAGIC" in the image you posted.
No.  It's not so easy.

If the scenes were shot with film, motion picture cameras are quite complex and can't just be arbitrarily sped up or slowed down.  The intermittent film transport system and the shutter need to be kept in perfect synchronization whilst also maintaining proper exposure.  The only solution in this case would be a specially designed camera.

If the scenes were shot on video tape the matter is even worse.  Back the you would need a camera that could record in a different video format (for the higher frame rate) and also another device to convert the format back to something that could be displayed on TV.

They had such things so the effect you are talking about could be created, but not as easily as you assumed.
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Offline stack

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #66 on: June 15, 2022, 12:25:26 AM »
I'm not sure the slo-mo excuse works. As has been pointed out over the years, slo-mo would slow down all movements in the frame. As can be seen by, for example, the "falling" compilation, the movements of arms and such to brace amid a fall or after are at normal speed. That wouldn't happen if the whole thing was slo-mo'd.


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Offline BillO

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #67 on: June 15, 2022, 12:43:35 AM »
I'm not sure the slo-mo excuse works. As has been pointed out over the years, slo-mo would slow down all movements in the frame. As can be seen by, for example, the "falling" compilation, the movements of arms and such to brace amid a fall or after are at normal speed. That wouldn't happen if the whole thing was slo-mo'd.
Exactly.  And that is the real proof.  If fine dirt is kicked up in air, clouds of it will float around as it slowly falls back to the ground.  You don't see any dust floating around on the moon.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #68 on: June 15, 2022, 12:51:45 AM »
I'm not sure the slo-mo excuse works. As has been pointed out over the years, slo-mo would slow down all movements in the frame. As can be seen by, for example, the "falling" compilation, the movements of arms and such to brace amid a fall or after are at normal speed. That wouldn't happen if the whole thing was slo-mo'd.

That's not normal speed. You apparently have never seen someone trip and fall.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 12:57:58 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline BillO

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #69 on: June 15, 2022, 01:02:10 AM »
I'm not sure the slo-mo excuse works. As has been pointed out over the years, slo-mo would slow down all movements in the frame. As can be seen by, for example, the "falling" compilation, the movements of arms and such to brace amid a fall or after are at normal speed. That wouldn't happen if the whole thing was slo-mo'd.

That's not normal speed. You apparently have never seen someone trip and fall.

Well, they were on the moon with 1/6 gravity.  This is bound to make things take a bit longer to fall.  However, he was talking about the astronauts' arm movements and such.  Not the time falling.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 01:12:55 AM by BillO »
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Offline markjo

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #70 on: June 15, 2022, 01:42:20 AM »
If the scenes were shot with film, motion picture cameras are quite complex and can't just be arbitrarily sped up or slowed down.  The intermittent film transport system and the shutter need to be kept in perfect synchronization whilst also maintaining proper exposure.
Don't forget that normal sounding audio would need to be synchronized with the slow motion video.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

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If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #71 on: June 15, 2022, 04:36:16 AM »
I'm not sure the slo-mo excuse works. As has been pointed out over the years, slo-mo would slow down all movements in the frame. As can be seen by, for example, the "falling" compilation, the movements of arms and such to brace amid a fall or after are at normal speed. That wouldn't happen if the whole thing was slo-mo'd.

That's not normal speed. You apparently have never seen someone trip and fall.

Well, they were on the moon with 1/6 gravity.  This is bound to make things take a bit longer to fall.  However, he was talking about the astronauts' arm movements and such.  Not the time falling.

Yes, when you fall your arms tend to shoot out faster than your body falling. Otherwise you would fall on your face.

Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #72 on: June 15, 2022, 07:20:39 AM »
Yes, when you fall your arms tend to shoot out faster than your body falling. Otherwise you would fall on your face.
What if you’re in a bulky space suit?
Also, the dude in the video doesn’t NOT claim that slow motion technology didn’t exist at the time, but there would have been no way to create a continuous slow motion shot for as long as necessary to fake the footage from the moon. That’s the point. And as I said above, in that other thread I posted a video of three VFX artists reviewing other footage from Apollo and concluding those shots wouldn’t have been possible before modern CGI. Compare and contrast the Apollo footage with the 2001 film.
As has pointed out above, you can see from the way the dust moves as they walk that they are in a vacuum.

TL;DR - the people who say it was fake are not knowledgeable about cameras, film or special effects.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

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Offline stack

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #73 on: June 15, 2022, 08:18:21 AM »
I'm not sure the slo-mo excuse works. As has been pointed out over the years, slo-mo would slow down all movements in the frame. As can be seen by, for example, the "falling" compilation, the movements of arms and such to brace amid a fall or after are at normal speed. That wouldn't happen if the whole thing was slo-mo'd.

That's not normal speed. You apparently have never seen someone trip and fall.

Well, they were on the moon with 1/6 gravity.  This is bound to make things take a bit longer to fall.  However, he was talking about the astronauts' arm movements and such.  Not the time falling.

Yes, when you fall your arms tend to shoot out faster than your body falling. Otherwise you would fall on your face.

Their arms would be in slo-mo too. But they are not. We didn't have post-processing rotoscoping back then to isolate the limbs. In other words, slo-mo wouldn't work as it's for the entirety of the images.

Just watch any slo-mo today. Limbs (and other stuff) are slowed down to unnatural speed like the rest of the frame.


Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #74 on: June 15, 2022, 08:51:23 AM »
Aye. If you look at the way their limbs are moving this is clearly not slow motion.



And as discussed the dust doesn't billow or blow around like it would with an atmosphere.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #75 on: June 15, 2022, 10:58:48 AM »
The video with the slow mo soccer players are generally not good examples because it has people falling backwards or on their side doing side saults. But on some of them you will notice that their arms appear to move pretty fast towards the ground, even in slow mo.

When you fall you have incredibly quick reaction time with your arms. They move much faster than under normal conscious conditions.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 11:22:14 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #76 on: June 15, 2022, 11:07:31 AM »
When you fall you have incredibly quick reaction time with your arms. They move much faster than under normal conscious conditions.
What if you're wearing a bulky spacesuit? I was looking at the legs in the clips I posted above, that doesn't look like slow motion to me.
And then there's the way the dust moves.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Online Pete Svarrior

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #77 on: June 15, 2022, 11:09:33 AM »
And then there's the way the dust moves.
How have you established that there's a significant amount of dust to observe in those scenes in the first place?
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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #78 on: June 15, 2022, 11:28:17 AM »
And then there's the way the dust moves.
How have you established that there's a significant amount of dust to observe in those scenes in the first place?
You can see them kicking it as they walk. Or, in this clip, as they drive:



Now, you can't tell what the granularity is, but if you look at dune buggies on earth you often see the sand billowing more because of the air movement. That doesn't happen in the moon footage.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Re: Moon landing hoax question
« Reply #79 on: June 15, 2022, 12:20:30 PM »
Okay, so you just showed us footage of the dust being pushed around... doesn't that have a bit of an impact on your claim that that doesn't happen in moon footage?

I suspect I'm confused by what you're actually trying to say here - could you rephrase for my benefit?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 12:22:08 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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