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Messages - BillO

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1
This thing, being thusly defined, remains undefined.
Self-awareness issues?

Infinity is singular.  No sure WTF that has to do with anything.  It's not a value, never was and was never meant to be.  You seem awfully confused.

2
"The value of infinity is also undefined."
Correct.  Just like pigeon or scourge, infinity is not a value. So, one more time, the definition of infinity is: Infinity is that which is boundless, endless, or larger than any natural number.

3
The lack of the word "undefined," in your examples in that it offers nothing contrary to what I have written.

They were definitions of infinite/infinity.  That might explain why the word "undefined" did not get mentioned.

4
Hey, if you can trot out anything that states infinity is not undefined or has otherwise negated what the Greeks had to say about it being undefined, by all means, go ahead.

Sure.

Wikipedia has it right and goes into interpretations of it in some detail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity
Quote
Infinity is that which is boundless, endless, or larger than any natural number.

Every dictionary on the web states the same thing in as many ways as you might fancy.

https://www.mathsisfun.com/definitions/infinite.html

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infinite

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/infinite

https://www.lexico.com/definition/infinite

I could go on...

Here are 59 synonyms for "infinite".  You'll notice that none of them are "undefined": https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/infinite

Maybe a short video on the matter?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMHmJwkaQmw



5
The ancient Greeks expressed infinity by the word apeiron, which had connotations of being unbounded, indefinite, undefined, and formless."
The ancient Greeks, eh?  Nice cherry.  You should have read a bit further.  I think you'd have found mathematics has come a long way since then.  Like I said, infinity is well defined, but not as a value.  We (us that know some math anyway) know exactly what is meant by infinity.  Where is the proof the finite is adjacent to infinite?  Still waiting...

BTW, here is proof that the sum of two real numbers (no matter what they are) is a real number (the set of real numbers is closed under addition). :https://proofwiki.org/wiki/Real_Addition_is_Closed  So good luck finding a disproof.
Nice cherry?

It was quoted directly from your own source.

Funny your source offers absolutely nothing in regard to counter that infinity is, in fact, undefined.

As for your real numbers...

Irrelevant to the discussion.

Toodle pip.
Yeah, they are 100% relevant, you are just not able to understand that.

Sad.

I'll leave you to your strange universe.  I've tried as hard as I want to on this.  I've given you everything you need.  Maybe go back to school?

Until next time..
Yes.

Until next time, when I expose your constant gaslighting and irrelevant commentary, as usual.
Gaslighting??!!  Okay, so now I understand.

Peace dude.  Be happy.

6
The ancient Greeks expressed infinity by the word apeiron, which had connotations of being unbounded, indefinite, undefined, and formless."
The ancient Greeks, eh?  Nice cherry.  You should have read a bit further.  I think you'd have found mathematics has come a long way since then.  Like I said, infinity is well defined, but not as a value.  We (us that know some math anyway) know exactly what is meant by infinity.  Where is the proof the finite is adjacent to infinite?  Still waiting...

BTW, here is proof that the sum of two real numbers (no matter what they are) is a real number (the set of real numbers is closed under addition). :https://proofwiki.org/wiki/Real_Addition_is_Closed  So good luck finding a disproof.
Nice cherry?

It was quoted directly from your own source.

Funny your source offers absolutely nothing in regard to counter that infinity is, in fact, undefined.

As for your real numbers...

Irrelevant to the discussion.

Toodle pip.
Yeah, they are 100% relevant, you are just not able to understand that.

Sad.

I'll leave you to your strange universe.  I've tried as hard as I want to on this.  I've given you everything you need.  Maybe go back to school?

Until next time..

7
The ancient Greeks expressed infinity by the word apeiron, which had connotations of being unbounded, indefinite, undefined, and formless."
The ancient Greeks, eh?  Nice cherry.  You should have read a bit further.  I think you'd have found mathematics has come a long way since then.  Like I said, infinity is well defined, but not as a value.  We (us that know some math anyway) know exactly what is meant by infinity.  Where is the proof the finite is adjacent to infinite?  Still waiting...

BTW, here is proof that the sum of two real numbers (no matter what they are) is a real number (the set of real numbers is closed under addition). :https://proofwiki.org/wiki/Real_Addition_is_Closed  So good luck finding a disproof.

8
Infinity is "undefined." And the symbol given is: ∞

Infinity.
Infinity may have no set value, but it is defined:https://www.britannica.com/science/infinity-mathematics

9
Numbers don't just run out. It doesn't go 1 - 2 - 3 .... 999,999 - 1,000,000 ... oh we've run out of numbers...infinity!
Yeah..you are just flat out wrong.
Ahhh.. that would be you.

No matter which number set you use - the natural, whole, integer, rational, real and complex number sets are all closed under addition.  That means AATW is right, you are wrong.

That also means you can take any number you like in any of those sets, and add any other number you like and the answer will still be a finite number in that set.  That also means there is no point where it becomes infinity.

Why are you arguing this position?  This is grade 9 or 10 math.  Go look it up or provide a proof for your assertion.

It really would be best for you to stop posting in threads having anything to do with math.
Fucking priceless!!!!!

10
Adjacent most certainly does not mean "opposites."

It means next to each other.
Correct.
Adjacent means “next to each other”.
But finite and infinite are not next to each other, they are opposites. Hence the prefix “in”, which means “not”. See?
So, you want to engage in the process proposed by Copernicus.

Well, I understand the need for some to hold fast to the idea that nothing could possibly be immeasurable.
Talk about marching out the straw men.

So, you made the bold (and quite ridiculous) claim that finite is adjacent to infinite.  Instead of the strawman, can you provide us with the mathematical proof of this?  Or even a mathematical discussion around it other than you just saying it's so?  There must be one around and you must have seen it in order to make your claim.  I (and others here) would love to see it.

11
Yeah, you can measure something, and then?

You cannot.

They are adjacent.
Can you provide a single reference for this?

12
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Attachments
« on: June 23, 2022, 12:54:27 AM »
That is, in many ways, preferable to the burden of moderating people's attachments for content that may be illegal to distribute.
Got it.  I can see where that might be an issue, especially where some members might be disingenuous (as in scammers and trolls).  FWIW, I will only upload my own works.  Anything else will be attached from source.  We may not agree on the universe, but rules are rules, and laws are laws.

13
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Attachments
« on: June 22, 2022, 06:58:45 PM »
If lack of control over your content is your issue (as you claimed), then taking that control yourself is your best solution.
All other points taken and thank you for looking into my difficulties.  I promise not to abuse the facility.

However, I would like to point out the lack of control I alluded to was yours (or this site's).  If content presented or appearing here is hosted elsewhere, then it's not in your control and could disappear at any time.   That is all I meant.

Thanks again for fixing the problem.

14
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Attachments
« on: June 22, 2022, 05:33:05 PM »
If you really care about broken links, you can always throw a tiny bit of pocket change at your own storage solution. That way, the people responsible for [that part of] your content are entirely within your influence.
I actually do.  The problem is if I decide I don't want to do that anymore.  Not that my content will likely be anything you'd be overly keen to keep around as I am pretty sure I will never post anything that will promote the concept of a flat earth.  However, I am a member of at least 10 similar old-style forums where my contentment is considered more valuable.  Out of those only 1 other prefers users to use off-site storage.   I know everyone is entitled to run things the way they want but from my personal perspective it just seems to be a bit of a strange policy.

In any case, if it will help I'd be willing to fire of a few $ to xasop to help pay for costs.  I encourage others to do so too.  Do you have a place/email address where donations can be sent?

15
Finite is adjacent to infinite.
What?  Not to take this topic off course too much, but no, this is not true at all.  There is no point between a given point of origin and infinity where you can say "One step closer to the origin and you are a finite distance away, but one step further and you are an infinite distance away".  Nor could you find a scale between two given points where you divide the scale one more time and now you can say there are an infinite number of positions between those two points on this scale.  Infinity is not a place, or a quantity, it is the conceptualization of the uncountably large.  It does not exist any where near the finite.

16
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: June 22, 2022, 03:04:59 AM »
Your link says that they are still monitoring for safety: "This review process continues to monitor vaccine safety."

If they still need to study it, then it means that they don't know. They are not performing much study of the safety of orange juice, for example.

The website continues:

"Continuous monitoring for problems and side effects. Once a vaccine gets an EUA and is being given to people, the FDA and the CDC continue to watch carefully in case problems arise. Data on the vaccine’s safety record accumulates over time, as more and more people who receive it report on their experience and any side effects. One important way to report adverse events after vaccination is through the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System."
This is true of any and every vaccine given.  The monitoring never stops.

Oh, but you guys don't want us to talk about VAERS because you don't like what it says and the US government's only vaccine reporting mechanism could be wrong.  ::)
VAERS says nothing.  It is a database of unsorted, unprocessed, unverified and unanalyzed raw data.

From the VAERS site:
Quote
The number of reports alone cannot be interpreted as evidence of a causal association between a vaccine and an adverse event, or as evidence about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines.
Reports may include incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental and unverified information.
VAERS does not obtain follow up records on every report. If a report is classified as serious, VAERS requests additional information, such as health records, to further evaluate the report.
VAERS data are limited to vaccine adverse event reports received between 1990 and the most recent date for which data are available.
VAERS data do not represent all known safety information for a vaccine and should be interpreted in the context of other scientific information.

Anyone can enter a report into VAERS.  You, me, Thork, Mr. Potato Head..

17
But no, I cited a NASA website on that:

https://sunearthday.nasa.gov/2009eclipse/amateur.php - "Hipparchus assumed that the sun was at an infinite distance."
Okay.  Perhaps the assumption of infinite distance was to simplify the problem in light of him not knowing exactly how far the sun was actually away.  Such methods have been in practice since the beginning and are still used.  Once he had studied the seasons and rationalized the sun must be in orbit around the earth he had no problems placing it between Mars and Venus.  It is still interesting to see the progress he made given the limited knowledge and tools of the time.  The model he eventually decided on lasted virtually unchanged for over 1600 years.

18
Yes, sources were also provided showing that Hipparchus believed in an infinitely distant sun.
Who Nazzaro?  Are we to take his account of this seriously?  He's a carpenter with a PhD in philosophy and psychology from Whales and he did his undergraduate work in theology.  Sure sounds like an expert on the cosmos.

Hipparchus was at the very beginning of real scientific inquiry into the nature of the cosmos.  His beliefs were likely to alter over time as he worked through answering the questions of the day.  It's the same with science today, the inquiry continues and our understanding of the universe changes.  I'm honestly not sure what the significance is of his at one point thinking the sun was infinitely far away though, if indeed he ever did.  He would soon become aware that was not possible given his model had it orbiting the earth once a year.  If I'm not mistaken he put the sun somewhere between Venus and Mars.  Does not sound infinite to me.

See this excerpt form the Encyclopedia Britannica: http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/hipparchus.html

19
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Attachments
« on: June 20, 2022, 04:46:38 AM »
I've doubled the attachment directory size limit for now. Should be working again.
Thank you for looking into this.

20
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Attachments
« on: June 20, 2022, 04:45:29 AM »
However, I'd generally agree with Clyde Frog's opinion here - uploading images to something like imgur or imgbb is generally preferable.
As much as I'd like to agree with you, I can't.  Relying on those beyond your influence to maintain your content is just .. well I can't find any positive adjectives that match my real life experience.  I can't guarantee I will post anything you will want to keep but broken links just tend to reduce the overall experience.

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