[Lord Dave]

What genetic markers make a Jew, a Jew?

[DuckDodgers]

So then there are ethnic Jews and then there are religious Jews.  So the Catholic nun could have been killed for being a Jew because of heritage even if she became a "non-Jew" from religious conversion.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I am not a geneticist, so I can't answer that question in the scientific sense that I think you're asking it. But there are markers in the DNA that Jews share with other Jews that they don't share with non-Jews. Furthermore, (an order of Priests) Levites within the Jewish community share markers with each other that they don't share even with other Jews. And Cohanim (a higher order of Priests) share an even tighter set of markers with each other that they do NOT share with Levites or other Jews. I don't know the details, again, because I'm not a scientist. You would have to ask somebody whose specialty is genetics. 

Please note that in the absence of a Temple, the Levites and the Cohanim don't have duties per se. They at present get certain honours in the shul, and say certain blessings over the congregation (or delegate someone else to do it). If the Temple is ever rebuilt, then they would have certain responsibilities, of course.

DUCK, yes, and Edith Stein died in Auschwitz for precisely that reason. She was an ethnic Jew, and the fact that she had converted to Catholicism long before the Nazis were heard of was not enough to save her.

[Lord Dave]

I did some reading on the subject.

You are wrong.  While there are genetic markers not commonly found in other groups they are all found in groups originating in the northern fertile crescent.  This includes non-jew Palestinians.

[Hoppy]

What genetic markers make a Jew, a Jew?

A pointed crooked nose.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

QUOTE: "I did some reading on the subject.

You are wrong.  While there are genetic markers not commonly found in other groups they are all found in groups originating in the northern fertile crescent.  This includes non-jew Palestinians."

I'm not sure what reading you did, but you are full of it. Jews live all over the world. If in fact you were correct, then "Palestinians" would have the same frequency of incidence of Tay-Sachs Disease as Ashkenazi Jews do, along with other interesting genetic disorders. Even other Jews don't have the same problems, so go figure.

The fact remains that Jews are an ethnic group. You can argue this all you want, and you will lose the argument, no matter how many times you argue it. Jews from Ethiopia share genetic markers with Jews from Iraq and Jews from Germany that they do not share with "Palestinians" (or anyone else for that matter).

I would encourage you to read something intelligent, and then get back to me when you actually know what you are talking about. I realise that might be difficult for you, but do try.

[Tau]

QUOTE: "I did some reading on the subject.

You are wrong.  While there are genetic markers not commonly found in other groups they are all found in groups originating in the northern fertile crescent.  This includes non-jew Palestinians."

I'm not sure what reading you did, but you are full of it. Jews live all over the world. If in fact you were correct, then "Palestinians" would have the same frequency of incidence of Tay-Sachs Disease as Ashkenazi Jews do, along with other interesting genetic disorders. Even other Jews don't have the same problems, so go figure.

The fact remains that Jews are an ethnic group. You can argue this all you want, and you will lose the argument, no matter how many times you argue it. Jews from Ethiopia share genetic markers with Jews from Iraq and Jews from Germany that they do not share with "Palestinians" (or anyone else for that matter).

I would encourage you to read something intelligent, and then get back to me when you actually know what you are talking about. I realise that might be difficult for you, but do try.

I'm not sure I would consider genetic abnormalities which are the result of inbreeding to be genetic markers. Wouldn't that definition extend to saying that European royalty is (or at least was) its own ethnic group?

[Lord Dave]

QUOTE: "I did some reading on the subject.

You are wrong.  While there are genetic markers not commonly found in other groups they are all found in groups originating in the northern fertile crescent.  This includes non-jew Palestinians."

I'm not sure what reading you did, but you are full of it. Jews live all over the world. If in fact you were correct, then "Palestinians" would have the same frequency of incidence of Tay-Sachs Disease as Ashkenazi Jews do, along with other interesting genetic disorders. Even other Jews don't have the same problems, so go figure.

The fact remains that Jews are an ethnic group. You can argue this all you want, and you will lose the argument, no matter how many times you argue it. Jews from Ethiopia share genetic markers with Jews from Iraq and Jews from Germany that they do not share with "Palestinians" (or anyone else for that matter).

I would encourage you to read something intelligent, and then get back to me when you actually know what you are talking about. I realise that might be difficult for you, but do try.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

Have fun.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Well, given that Arabs are sons of Abraham by Ishmael, & Jews are sons of Abraham by Isaac (the 2 men were half-brothers), this does stand to reason. Ought to smack my head for not thinking of this. Of course Arabs & Jews are related. But they are still separate, albeit related, ethnic groups. So yes, you're partly right, I'll grant the point. But I stand by what I said re: the Levites, the Cohanim, & Jews generally, & their various DNA markers. The Samaritans are obvious. They are mixed, half Israelite & half Assyrian, mostly.

[Rama Set]

Do you know that Arabs and Jews are not literally the direct descendants of the sons of Abraham?

[Vindictus]

Do you know that Arabs and Jews are not literally the direct descendants of the sons of Abraham?

If he were intelligent enough to realise this, he wouldn't be a Muslim hating Jew.

[Lord Dave]

Well, given that Arabs are sons of Abraham by Ishmael, & Jews are sons of Abraham by Isaac (the 2 men were half-brothers), this does stand to reason. Ought to smack my head for not thinking of this. Of course Arabs & Jews are related. But they are still separate, albeit related, ethnic groups. So yes, you're partly right, I'll grant the point. But I stand by what I said re: the Levites, the Cohanim, & Jews generally, & their various DNA markers. The Samaritans are obvious. They are mixed, half Israelite & half Assyrian, mostly.

Why do Jews usually like to mate only with other Jews despite a world wide distribution of Jews and such low population numbers?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

VINDICUS, remember, you lack the level of intelligence that your picture would indicate that you do. And I see no reason to dispute the tradition attribution of descent for Arabs and the Jews just because an atheist suggests it.

[Rama Set]

VINDICUS, remember, you lack the level of intelligence that your picture would indicate that you do. And I see no reason to dispute the tradition attribution of descent for Arabs and the Jews just because an atheist suggests it.

Agnostic thanks.

I say this not because I doubt the existence of God but because suggesting that the entire population of Arabs and Jews began only 5000 years ago with one man is ridiculous on its face.

Seriously. This is YEC style nonsense.

[Rushy]

Yaakov, do you take all parts of the Bible literally?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Actually, no, I do not.  But Judaism has been around for about 4500 years as an existing Faith tradition separate from others. And that is about how far back Abraham is said to have lived (perhaps a bit further back).

[Rushy]

What determines which parts of the Bible are absolute fact and which parts are simply metaphors or analogies? As far as I know, the Bible doesn't make a point of differentiating between fact and fiction.

[beardo]

Can I become a Jew?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

BEARDO, you could if you were willing to put in the time for a conversion class.

QUOTE: "What determines which parts of the Bible are absolute fact and which parts are simply metaphors or analogies? As far as I know, the Bible doesn't make a point of differentiating between fact and fiction."

A VERY good question, that! You are are right, of course. The raw text of the Scripture doesn't tell us anything like that. We rely on scholars who know what they are talking about. And of course, its always difficult to find scholars who understand the modern techniques without given into the liberal BS, but also understand the wisdom of our Fathers.

Its a fine balance. How do you accept the wisdom of the Rabbis of Blessed Memory while still applying the historical-critical method to the Bible? How do you do the last while still recognising that God is still ultimately responsible for the Bible and the historical-critical method can be overdone with regards to the Biblical text?

Those are hard questions to answer. But answer them we must if we are to remain faithful as Jews, and faithful as academics to our field of study (whatever that may be).

[Rama Set]

So you have no good criteria?