Offline mtnman

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The vanishing point
« on: October 05, 2017, 04:17:47 PM »
I have read the wiki article on sunsets. https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Setting_of_the_Sun

I have a question for Tom Bishop on this topic. Why is the vanishing point only relevant at the horizon?

From the wiki:
Quote
...since man cannot perceive infinity due to human limitations, the perspective lines are modified and placed a finite distance away from the observer as so: (diagram omitted)

This finite distance to the vanishing point is what allows ships to ascend into horizon...

Why wouldn't the converging perspective lines apply in all directions equally?

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Offline J-Man

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2017, 06:57:44 PM »
I have read the wiki article on sunsets. https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Setting_of_the_Sun

I have a question for Tom Bishop on this topic. Why is the vanishing point only relevant at the horizon?

From the wiki:
Quote
...since man cannot perceive infinity due to human limitations, the perspective lines are modified and placed a finite distance away from the observer as so: (diagram omitted)

This finite distance to the vanishing point is what allows ships to ascend into horizon...

Why wouldn't the converging perspective lines apply in all directions equally?

The problem with this perspective line is that if in fact the Earth were a globe you wouldn't get these breathe taking pictures. The lines prove flat earth once again. Enjoy the link for amazing perspective photos.





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507144/photographer-Michael-Kittell-captures-Bolivian-Salt-flats.html
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

Offline mtnman

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2017, 09:25:00 PM »

The problem with this perspective line is that if in fact the Earth were a globe you wouldn't get these breathe taking pictures. The lines prove flat earth once again. Enjoy the link for amazing perspective photos.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507144/photographer-Michael-Kittell-captures-Bolivian-Salt-flats.html
A very pretty picture that proves nothing. Again.

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Offline J-Man

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2017, 10:27:45 PM »
Man you must envision the lines drawn past those mtn's (get it? mtnman). Putting in cross sexting lines on the side only works if you turn sideways and look out to the vanishing points. Peripheral vision doesn't work in this instance.
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

Offline mtnman

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2017, 12:26:27 AM »
Putting in cross sexting lines on the side only works if you turn sideways and look out to the vanishing points. Peripheral vision doesn't work in this instance.
So you say there are vanishing points to the horizon if I look sideways. Why are there no vanishing points if I look up? What's special about looking sideways?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 03:51:17 AM »
I have read the wiki article on sunsets. https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Setting_of_the_Sun

I have a question for Tom Bishop on this topic. Why is the vanishing point only relevant at the horizon?

From the wiki:
Quote
...since man cannot perceive infinity due to human limitations, the perspective lines are modified and placed a finite distance away from the observer as so: (diagram omitted)

This finite distance to the vanishing point is what allows ships to ascend into horizon...

Why wouldn't the converging perspective lines apply in all directions equally?

They do apply in all directions equally. If you are in a forest looking up at tall redwood trees you can also see that they seem slightly tilted at each other. The earth is a plane which stretches outwards from you until the lands reach the vanishing point. There are more things on the earth than high in the sky, so the effect is more visible.

Offline mtnman

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2017, 04:49:40 AM »

They do apply in all directions equally. If you are in a forest looking up at tall redwood trees you can also see that they seem slightly tilted at each other. The earth is a plane which stretches outwards from you until the lands reach the vanishing point. There are more things on the earth than high in the sky, so the effect is more visible.
If there are converging perspective lines in all directions, presumably they also have vanishing points. So why in your model is the sun visible when at it's highest in the sky mid day, but not after sunset? Are you saying that the sun is closer than the vanishing point at noon but past it after sunset?

Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2017, 12:48:41 AM »
Ok, so the reason why you see up to a certain point on the horizon is that the earth is round. Because the earth is so big, the curve is too small to perceive with the human eye in most cases.

Your argument is that we only perceive something at a certain distance, like a game rendering scenery? That's obsurd. If that's the case then why the hell can we see stars millions of light years away and not 100km in front of us?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2017, 01:27:23 AM »

They do apply in all directions equally. If you are in a forest looking up at tall redwood trees you can also see that they seem slightly tilted at each other. The earth is a plane which stretches outwards from you until the lands reach the vanishing point. There are more things on the earth than high in the sky, so the effect is more visible.
If there are converging perspective lines in all directions, presumably they also have vanishing points. So why in your model is the sun visible when at it's highest in the sky mid day, but not after sunset? Are you saying that the sun is closer than the vanishing point at noon but past it after sunset?

If the trees in the above forest-perspective example extended hundreds of miles into the air, perhaps the trees would intersect and block out the sun.

Offline mtnman

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2017, 01:35:58 AM »

They do apply in all directions equally. If you are in a forest looking up at tall redwood trees you can also see that they seem slightly tilted at each other. The earth is a plane which stretches outwards from you until the lands reach the vanishing point. There are more things on the earth than high in the sky, so the effect is more visible.
If there are converging perspective lines in all directions, presumably they also have vanishing points. So why in your model is the sun visible when at it's highest in the sky mid day, but not after sunset? Are you saying that the sun is closer than the vanishing point at noon but past it after sunset?

If the trees in the above forest-perspective example extended hundreds of miles into the air, perhaps the trees would intersect and block out the sun.

Why are trees relevant to answering this question? I'm quite sure a tree can block the sun given proper combinations of height and angle. It's called shade.

Are you saying that vanishing points exist because things block the view?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2017, 02:07:49 AM »

They do apply in all directions equally. If you are in a forest looking up at tall redwood trees you can also see that they seem slightly tilted at each other. The earth is a plane which stretches outwards from you until the lands reach the vanishing point. There are more things on the earth than high in the sky, so the effect is more visible.
If there are converging perspective lines in all directions, presumably they also have vanishing points. So why in your model is the sun visible when at it's highest in the sky mid day, but not after sunset? Are you saying that the sun is closer than the vanishing point at noon but past it after sunset?

If the trees in the above forest-perspective example extended hundreds of miles into the air, perhaps the trees would intersect and block out the sun.

Why are trees relevant to answering this question? I'm quite sure a tree can block the sun given proper combinations of height and angle. It's called shade.

Are you saying that vanishing points exist because things block the view?

Yes.

Offline mtnman

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2017, 02:11:02 AM »

They do apply in all directions equally. If you are in a forest looking up at tall redwood trees you can also see that they seem slightly tilted at each other. The earth is a plane which stretches outwards from you until the lands reach the vanishing point. There are more things on the earth than high in the sky, so the effect is more visible.
If there are converging perspective lines in all directions, presumably they also have vanishing points. So why in your model is the sun visible when at it's highest in the sky mid day, but not after sunset? Are you saying that the sun is closer than the vanishing point at noon but past it after sunset?

If the trees in the above forest-perspective example extended hundreds of miles into the air, perhaps the trees would intersect and block out the sun.

Why are trees relevant to answering this question? I'm quite sure a tree can block the sun given proper combinations of height and angle. It's called shade.

Are you saying that vanishing points exist because things block the view?

Yes.
What things are causing the vanishing point (and blocking the sun) when I see a sunset over the ocean?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2017, 02:15:49 AM »

They do apply in all directions equally. If you are in a forest looking up at tall redwood trees you can also see that they seem slightly tilted at each other. The earth is a plane which stretches outwards from you until the lands reach the vanishing point. There are more things on the earth than high in the sky, so the effect is more visible.
If there are converging perspective lines in all directions, presumably they also have vanishing points. So why in your model is the sun visible when at it's highest in the sky mid day, but not after sunset? Are you saying that the sun is closer than the vanishing point at noon but past it after sunset?

If the trees in the above forest-perspective example extended hundreds of miles into the air, perhaps the trees would intersect and block out the sun.

Why are trees relevant to answering this question? I'm quite sure a tree can block the sun given proper combinations of height and angle. It's called shade.

Are you saying that vanishing points exist because things block the view?

Yes.
What things are causing the vanishing point (and blocking the sun) when I see a sunset over the ocean?

Any tiny waves or swells that breach the flat surface.

The perspective lines may be perfect, but the surface of the earth is not perfect. In Earth Not a Globe the author points out that the sunset happens sooner than expected if the conditions of the oceans are more disturbed.

Offline mtnman

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2017, 03:21:41 AM »

They do apply in all directions equally. If you are in a forest looking up at tall redwood trees you can also see that they seem slightly tilted at each other. The earth is a plane which stretches outwards from you until the lands reach the vanishing point. There are more things on the earth than high in the sky, so the effect is more visible.
If there are converging perspective lines in all directions, presumably they also have vanishing points. So why in your model is the sun visible when at it's highest in the sky mid day, but not after sunset? Are you saying that the sun is closer than the vanishing point at noon but past it after sunset?

If the trees in the above forest-perspective example extended hundreds of miles into the air, perhaps the trees would intersect and block out the sun.

Why are trees relevant to answering this question? I'm quite sure a tree can block the sun given proper combinations of height and angle. It's called shade.

Are you saying that vanishing points exist because things block the view?

Yes.
What things are causing the vanishing point (and blocking the sun) when I see a sunset over the ocean?

Any tiny waves or swells that breach the flat surface.

The perspective lines may be perfect, but the surface of the earth is not perfect. In Earth Not a Globe the author points out that the sunset happens sooner than expected if the conditions of the oceans are more disturbed.
Just to be sure that I'm understanding what you are saying.

Example scenario. I am standing on the coast of California, looking west, watching the sun set. Just using rough approximations for the sake of discussion only. If the sun is at its highest point at noon, it would be at the opposite side 12 hours later, so that would mean it would about 1/4 of the way around at sunset, let's say 6 pm. Based on your unipolar map that would be around eastern Australia.

You are saying the sun is at so low of an angle above the Earth, that tiny waves and swells are what block us from seeing the sun after it sets from out perspective.

Is that correct?

Revel

Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2017, 04:42:54 AM »
They do apply in all directions equally. If you are in a forest looking up at tall redwood trees you can also see that they seem slightly tilted at each other. The earth is a plane which stretches outwards from you until the lands reach the vanishing point. There are more things on the earth than high in the sky, so the effect is more visible.

You've got to be kidding me. We do not see the world in a perspective form without assuming infinite distances. Your vanishing point assumes that we see parallel lines to the max extent of light reflected from our eyes. Where could this possibly be relevant? Clouds? Elaborate.

Revel

Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2017, 04:46:58 AM »
why the hell can we see stars millions of light years away and not 100km in front of us?
I think that's because of which stars produce the most light. Even the farther ones could still show light though closer ones are not bright enough. 100km stars could be tiny, and by proportion, the ones millions of light years away could be enormous. Depends on irrelevant factors, if anything.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2017, 04:56:59 AM »

They do apply in all directions equally. If you are in a forest looking up at tall redwood trees you can also see that they seem slightly tilted at each other. The earth is a plane which stretches outwards from you until the lands reach the vanishing point. There are more things on the earth than high in the sky, so the effect is more visible.
If there are converging perspective lines in all directions, presumably they also have vanishing points. So why in your model is the sun visible when at it's highest in the sky mid day, but not after sunset? Are you saying that the sun is closer than the vanishing point at noon but past it after sunset?

If the trees in the above forest-perspective example extended hundreds of miles into the air, perhaps the trees would intersect and block out the sun.

Why are trees relevant to answering this question? I'm quite sure a tree can block the sun given proper combinations of height and angle. It's called shade.

Are you saying that vanishing points exist because things block the view?

Yes.
What things are causing the vanishing point (and blocking the sun) when I see a sunset over the ocean?

Any tiny waves or swells that breach the flat surface.

The perspective lines may be perfect, but the surface of the earth is not perfect. In Earth Not a Globe the author points out that the sunset happens sooner than expected if the conditions of the oceans are more disturbed.
Just to be sure that I'm understanding what you are saying.

Example scenario. I am standing on the coast of California, looking west, watching the sun set. Just using rough approximations for the sake of discussion only. If the sun is at its highest point at noon, it would be at the opposite side 12 hours later, so that would mean it would about 1/4 of the way around at sunset, let's say 6 pm. Based on your unipolar map that would be around eastern Australia.

You are saying the sun is at so low of an angle above the Earth, that tiny waves and swells are what block us from seeing the sun after it sets from out perspective.

Is that correct?

Yes, that is correct. Tiny waves can obscure the sun much like a dime can obscure an elephant.

Offline Ga_x2

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2017, 05:32:20 AM »

Yes, that is correct. Tiny waves can obscure the sun much like a dime can obscure an elephant.
can you please draw a diagram with the correct quotes and the path of the light? You keep repeating the same stuff, that has been taken to task a hundred times.

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2017, 05:52:33 AM »

Yes, that is correct. Tiny waves can obscure the sun much like a dime can obscure an elephant.
can you please draw a diagram with the correct quotes and the path of the light? You keep repeating the same stuff, that has been taken to task a hundred times.

Tom's language is too vague to interpret. Ask him to be specific. Tiny waves? How do you draw that? What are these tiny waves? Where do they come from?
Your point cannot be taken seriously until you validate it.

Offline Ga_x2

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Re: The vanishing point
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2017, 06:20:56 AM »

Tom's language is too vague to interpret. Ask him to be specific. Tiny waves? How do you draw that? What are these tiny waves? Where do they come from?
Your point cannot be taken seriously until you validate it.
have a look at the various threads on perspective. He tends to disappear whenever the paradox in his views is pointed out.

Point is, the dimensions and angles involved are so big, that not even a tsunami could cause the sunset, unless it was already on your face.
The FE sun is ~20° above the horizon at sunset. Unless photons start behaving differently at a distance.