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Messages - Tom Bishop

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9121
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« on: January 16, 2014, 04:58:19 AM »
Looking out a window is not proof.  If I assumed everything about the earth by looking out my window, I would have to assume there are no deserts, or volcanoes, or glaciers, or kangaroos.

Yes, but you did not believe in kangaroos until you saw picture/video evidence of one as a child. You did not automatically believe in kangaroos before seeing evidence of one.

9122
Suggestions & Concerns / Can I have an email account/forwarder?
« on: January 16, 2014, 04:55:20 AM »
When sending out emails to the press I would like to send it under pr@tfes.org or tombishop@tfes.org. Is this possible?

9123
Flat Earth Projects / Re: News Release
« on: January 15, 2014, 01:48:50 PM »
I'll be happy to approach the press.

9124
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Is it possible to prove a negative?
« on: January 13, 2014, 09:13:33 AM »
The original claim was that gravity varied over the surface of the earth.  It was supported by a gravity map.  This piece of evidence was disputed by you with your aforementioned claims that you knew that it was uncontrolled.  When asked to back your claims up, you shouted "negative claim!"

I would recommend looking at the thread again. Claiming that the experiment was uncontrolled was a positive claim which I provided evidence for.

9125
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Is it possible to prove a negative?
« on: January 13, 2014, 06:50:02 AM »
Incorrect. I provided evidence that the experiment was uncontrolled by directing the thread's participants to look at their own sources they had posted which describe the experiment.

9126
Flat Earth Projects / Should we take members?
« on: January 13, 2014, 04:59:30 AM »
Should we take members for the Flat Earth Society? Or everyone who has signed up to the forum already be a member?

If we should take members, what special things should we offer?

9127
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Is it possible to prove a negative?
« on: January 13, 2014, 04:37:35 AM »
What are you talking about? We're talking about the absence of evidence. The absence of evidence argument is used to disprove the boogeyman in your example:  "Therefore, I conclude that there is not enough evidence to confirm the existence of a boogeyman."

So, is absence of evidence a perfectly fine rebuttal now?
When you have searched the likely places for that evidence if it were to exist.  We have already been over that.

Looking in your briefcase for documents on a satellite does not meet this standard.  The documents, if they existed are not likely to be in your briefcase.

Looking on a website dedicated to the existence of bogeymen and explaining the pictures would.  The evidence of bogeymen, if it were to exist, would likely be located on a website dedicated to the existence of bogeymen.

I really don't know how you are not getting that point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence#Absence_of_evidence

Quote
in the absence of evidence rendering the existence of some entity probable, we are justified in believing that it does not exist, provided that (1) it is not something that might leave no traces and (2) we have comprehensively surveyed the area where the evidence would be found if the entity existed...

I did look in the most likely place for evidence that the satellite was built to be magnetically resistant. I inquired with the sole source making that claim.

9128
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Is it possible to prove a negative?
« on: January 13, 2014, 03:06:46 AM »
What are you talking about? We're talking about the absence of evidence. The absence of evidence argument is used to disprove the boogeyman in your example:  "Therefore, I conclude that there is not enough evidence to confirm the existence of a boogeyman."

So, is absence of evidence a perfectly fine rebuttal now?


9129
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Is it possible to prove a negative?
« on: January 13, 2014, 02:27:15 AM »
Who said anything about a child's drawing?  I said pictures. Or should I have been more exact for your pedantic self and said photographic pictures?.  And note, person 2 collected the pictures.  He supplied support for his claim.

Also, if Person 2 did refute a child's drawing and came to the conclusion, Person 1 would say that Person 2 did not sufficiently meet the burden of proof.

Posting a few photographs from the internet and explaining them as the result of over exposure or other photograph issues does not prove that the boogeyman does not exist.

The absence of evidence argument is used to disprove the boogeyman in your example:  "Therefore, I conclude that there is not enough evidence to confirm the existence of a boogeyman."

9130
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: You are selfish.
« on: January 12, 2014, 08:46:14 PM »
Sounds like your issue is not ownership but disparity between those who own more than they need and those who do not have enough to get by.

Yes, and by giving the card to the authorities rather than letting nature take its course he selfishly imposed his morals on an event to deprive others of resources. It is no different than a tourist on safari saving a Zebra's life.

9131
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: You are selfish.
« on: January 12, 2014, 08:37:41 PM »
Ownership of personal property is a moral issue?

A system of limited resources where some people own more than other people, causing them hardship, is a moral issue.

9132
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: You are selfish.
« on: January 12, 2014, 08:22:07 PM »
So credit fraud is your solution to curbing criminal behavior?

I gave no solutions for curbing criminal behavior. I gave an observation that performing an action like this to force your morality on events and deprive one party of resources is selfish.

9133
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: You are selfish.
« on: January 12, 2014, 08:12:23 PM »
It is just as if a tourist on safari saved the life of a Zebra by scaring all the lions away because he thought it was wrong that the Zebra should die. That action is inconsiderate to the lions who will endure hardship because of that action. It is not for the tourist to decide what is right and wrong in nature. Forcing his morality on nature is selfish.

9134
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: You are selfish.
« on: January 12, 2014, 08:06:21 PM »
Which criminals?

The ones which exist by the millions in every country. Turning in the credit card may have caused them increased hardship. Who is Franklin to know that a FDIC bank deserves the money more than a desperate criminal in his area who may have picked it up?

He imposed his morals on an event, rather than letting nature take its course, because he deemed it the 'right' thing to do. Forcing your morals on the nature of things is selfish.

9135
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: You are selfish.
« on: January 12, 2014, 07:49:42 PM »
Quote
1.
(of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

Where is the consideration for the desperate criminals, who arguably needs the money more than a random stranger, whose credit card is likely insured by a FDIC bank?

9136
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: You are selfish.
« on: January 12, 2014, 07:41:07 PM »
Why did you give the credit card to the proper authorities rather than leaving it on the ground for a criminal to find? Those criminals need to put food on their plates too.

Is it because YOU felt it was the right thing to do? Is it because YOU wanted to impose your morals of justice and altruism by taking action, rather than letting nature take its course? Is it because YOU know the cardholder of unknown integrity deserves the money more than a desperate criminal, of whom you know nothing about?

It's all about you and how you think things should be, forcing your morals onto events. Selfish.

9137
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Is it possible to prove a negative?
« on: January 12, 2014, 07:15:49 PM »
I see.

Person 1: Does the boogeyman exist?

Person 2: No...

Person 1: Ha! You just claimed that the boogeyman doesn't exist! Now you have to prove it!
Person 2: Here are some reported pictures of the boogey man.  This is why they are not genuine.  All pictures that have been reported of the boogeyman have been looked at and determined to be either faked or a case of mistaken identity.  Therefore, I conclude that there is not enough evidence to confirm the existence of a boogeyman.  Because these pictures are the most likely source of proof of the boogey man, I have concluded that the boogeyman does not exist.

That's an "absence of evidence is evidence of absence" argument.
No Tom, that's called "refuting evidence".  Person 2 collected evidence and then showed why that evidence is not valid.

Person 1 did not present any evidence. If Person 2 collects a child's drawing of the boogeyman from the internet and criticizes it, it is not a "refutation of evidence".

The absence of evidence argument is explicit:  "Therefore, I conclude that there is not enough evidence to confirm the existence of a boogeyman."

9138
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Is it possible to prove a negative?
« on: January 12, 2014, 05:27:15 PM »
I see.

Person 1: Does the boogeyman exist?

Person 2: No...

Person 1: Ha! You just claimed that the boogeyman doesn't exist! Now you have to prove it!
Person 2: Here are some reported pictures of the boogey man.  This is why they are not genuine.  All pictures that have been reported of the boogeyman have been looked at and determined to be either faked or a case of mistaken identity.  Therefore, I conclude that there is not enough evidence to confirm the existence of a boogeyman.  Because these pictures are the most likely source of proof of the boogey man, I have concluded that the boogeyman does not exist.

That's an "absence of evidence is evidence of absence" argument. You said that there is little credible evidence that the boogeyman exists, and since there is no other evidence he therefore does not exist. We are told by the participants in this thread that absence of evidence arguments are invalid arguments. It still needs to proven that the boogeyman does not exist.

9139
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Is it possible to prove a negative?
« on: January 12, 2014, 02:53:19 AM »
I see.

Person 1: Does the boogeyman exist?

Person 2: No...

Person 1: Ha! You just claimed that the boogeyman doesn't exist! Now you have to prove it!

9140
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: You are selfish.
« on: January 11, 2014, 02:35:14 AM »
And how did you feel about doing a nice thing for somebody else?
I felt like it was the proper thing to do, but I hardly got an endorphin rush or any type of "good feelings". If I wanted chemicals in my brain, I'd do drugs or masturbate or sky dive or some shit. If my goal was exclusively, or even primarily, my own pleasure there are a lot easier ways to do it than picking up a piece of plastic.

And how would you have felt if you had ignored it and just left it laying there?

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