The Flat Earth Society
Other Discussion Boards => Arts & Entertainment => Topic started by: Dr David Thork on December 16, 2017, 04:46:18 PM
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*Spoilers covered up*
I went to see this yesterday, with some trepidation, I might add. I've been burned by the Star Wars franchise many times with Jar Jar, overdone CGi, weird story-lines and perversions of the original narrative.
As the yellow text scrolled up an the beginning, I could feel my scrotum scrunching my balls up. Why do I allow them to raise my hopes and then piss on them time and time again? I've never really enjoyed any of the remakes. Why would this one be different?
Well, actually it was. It is by far the most true to the original I have seen. The story line was pretty solid, we were back to muppets instead of CGI characters, it held onto the original elements of the saga rather than the Disney bastardisations, the new ships matched the old ships, the Jedi powers weren't straight up weird (but for one but that is a spoiler - Laia floating about space), and it just felt like an old school star wars. It had a little more humour written in, but that didn't ruin it.
It is the first one since the 80's that I would say "Go and see, it won't upset you".
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/4.5_stars.svg/2000px-4.5_stars.svg.png)
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I was worried at the beginning that they may try and do homage to Empire Strikes Back like The Force Awakens did for A New Hope. I was very pleased when it went its own way and I really enjoyed how they developed Ben and Rey. Some of Finn’s story felt a bit like extra fat that could be trimmed but I loved the circumstances the Resistance fleet was in.
I totally agree the humor was fun and not too much and I really enjoyed Luke’s story as well.
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I'm not going to use spoiler tags in a dedicated thread. For "Just Watched," it's fair enough, but everyone clicking on this one ought to know what they're getting into. I hereby issue an official
spoiler warbling
I loved the part of this movie that focused on Rey, Luke, and Kylo. It's familiar because of the original trilogy, but twists things around enough to feel fresh by the end. I'm glad they killed off Snoke, and I find the outrage on reddit over him being "wasted" both baffling and amusing. Snoke was only ever a plot device to begin with, a necessary villain who had to exist simply because the First Order existed. Having Kylo now be in charge makes the most sense narratively, and it'll no doubt make for a great dynamic with Rey in the next movie.
You know what didn't make sense narratively? Wasting a huge amount of screen time in the second act on a wild goose chase that not only proved to be a resounding failure, but ended up delivering the intel to the First Order that led to the Resistance being all but wiped out. What the fuck? Why would you write this into a movie? All Finn, Poe, and Rose had to do was nothing, fucking nothing, and the Resistance would have escaped with their new base intact and a few hundred members left, rather than literally just a few. And why didn't Leia, or Holdo later, tell them that, rather than just keeping silent and letting them believe that there was literally no hope? I've seen some people argue that it was entirely intentional and tied into the movie's themes of failure and desperation, but the thing is, it's never even acknowledged that everything bad that happens in the final act is literally all the heroes' fault. Why couldn't the First Order have found out what the Resistance was up to by other means? It's such a tiny thing, but it would have made the rest of the movie so much easier to accept.
Or maybe the First Order shouldn't have found out about the Resistance's plans at all. The throne room scene, coupled with Finn and Rose's escape from the Star Destroyer, really ought to have been the climax of the movie. I didn't like that it felt the need to follow that up with a retread of the Battle of Hoth.
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I totally agree with this. Aristotle was not wrong about the unities of time, place and action making for good drama. Keep it in the pressure cooker!
I know there are rumors that the slave children are the protagonists in Johnson’s follow up trilogy, but that still doesn’t justify shoehorning them in to a deflating and time wasting digression.
I thought the Rey, Ben, Snoke and Luke story was superb and the fleet story up to the sidetrack was good. Poe mutinying? Heck yeah! That was awesome! Clandestine mission to disrupt the tracker? It’s a little like disabling the death star tractor beam, but I’m on board. If they had just found a way to make that work; hell, make Rose the code breaker and I think the final battle would not have seemed like so much extra.
On the battle, too bad they didn’t have the cojones to kill Finn there, because that would have been cool. Luke’s battle was awesome and the payoff was so much better than if he had actually survived the over the top barrage.
I find the bawing over Luke being embittered to be as ridiculous as the outrage over Snoke. It’s like they want to preserve Luke Skywalker as an idea rather than letting him real human journeys.
Overall, I liked it a lot despite its faults and thought it was a more than adequate sequel to FA. Can’t wait to see what’s next.
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@honk
They are the only things that bother you?
Laia being frozen in space, her blood boiling from the cavitation before her cells solidify, and then magically opening her frozen solid eyelids, moving her moist eyes to focus on the ship and floating in like Peter Pan. That was a very stupid scene.
The whole Rey/Finn romance and being reunited at the end. I know they really really want a multi-racial love story, but its just stupid. She'd have been better off having a Padme/Anakin style relationship with Kylo. Could have been way more complex and full of intrigue and torn emotion than being into the dumb Storm Trooper. as mentioned he didn't even do anything in this episode. He's just there to allow the liberal left to rub black men with white women into the faces of conservatives. They even kill rose off (a better character), to clear the way for the Finn/Rey thing that is just implausible.
Why don't any of the dark side ever come back as ghosts? Top Jedi's always do. Why didn't Snoke come back and haunt the living crap out of Kylo?
Why do the red guards then fight Kylo after Snoke is dead? What are they fighting for? That's got to be career limiting. Who do they think is going to take over? The wet ginger guy or the space wizard?
Why did the purple-haired woman who stays on the fleeing rebel ship have to be a hero? She's like every dumb female middle manager I've ever met. Threatened by anyone else making a suggestion, defensive, happy not to tell anyone else what her plans are and incompetent. And that was fine. That's a personality type I can get on board with. But yet again, politics ... no woman can ever be portrayed as having character flaws. Really she is a secret hero that knows best and saves the day. Why? She's a bit part character.
The anime penguin/puffin things. Merch. I get it, but they were a little over used.
Luke's new superpower of being somewhere he isn't. What is the point of being somewhere else so that you can't be harmed, when doing so kills you from the effort anyway? Why not just fight Kylo in person and die like a man, instead of pretending to be there and dying of exhaustion on a rock? Its the same outcome. You delayed Kylo and still lost and died. Also Kylo clearly has a bit of a blind spot for feeling Luke's presence. Doesn't he possess all the Jedi skills, or just a select bunch that give him convenient vulnerabilities?
I don't think Benicio del Toro's character needed to stammer. It was an unnecessary character flaw. Over acting if you like.
They have incredible technology in this galaxy. Why hasn't chewbacca got google translate on his mobile? He's like Sooty ... only Rey can understand him. In fact Chewy would make a great partner for Rey. Big strong wooky, plenty of fur to hold on to, warm to cuddle at night, the tall strong silent type and would tick the Disney multi-racial relationship box. I'll be he stinks when it rains, but love can see through stuff like that.
Anyway, despite lots of plot holes but you get them in all starwars films, this was still the best 'new' one I've seen.
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Leia story... meh. It was not great but not worth dwelling on.
There is no love story with Rey and Finn. Ben and Rey were still connected after all...
The red guys were fanatics, so they fought to avenge their fallen lord. Pretty standard trope.
Luke became one with the force after that because he learned what he needed to not from over exhaustion.
Benicio gonna Benicio. Love him or leave him.
Lots of people understand chewy. Who doesn’t?
I didn’t like her character either but the ship thing was awesome.
Maybe Snoke will come back.
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So I loved TLJ.
I loved the confidence in it, unlike TFA which seemed to be desperate for senpai to notice it, drowning in self-reference and ripoff homage, TLJ took those same expectations and presumptions and subverted them. The hot-headed rogue doesn't save the day by flying by seat-of-his-pants, in fact his recklessness is the driving force behind the fuck-up cascade. The legendary hero doesn't appear out of nowhere to save the day. Killing the Big Bad doesn't end the struggle. The villain doesn't do a face-heel-turn when presented with the chance to walk away from his path of evil.
There were problems with it. Leia's magic spacewalk, the casino bit - while I see what they were trying to do - could probably have stood to either have been shortened or left until episode IX. The whole film could probably have stood to be trimmed by about half an hour, but all that being said, I enjoyed it more than TFA and would probably put it alongside Rogue One in terms of enjoyment.
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Laia being frozen in space, her blood boiling from the cavitation before her cells solidify, and then magically opening her frozen solid eyelids, moving her moist eyes to focus on the ship and floating in like Peter Pan. That was a very stupid scene.
The Force is all around us, bro. Leia could use it to sustain her life functions and propel herself through space as surely as Yoda could raise an X-wing from a swamp. My own issue with that scene was simply that its execution was silly and overwrought. Things like her goofy outstretched pose. It could have worked nicely if it had been a bit more subtle and elegant.
The whole Rey/Finn romance and being reunited at the end. I know they really really want a multi-racial love story, but its just stupid. She'd have been better off having a Padme/Anakin style relationship with Kylo. Could have been way more complex and full of intrigue and torn emotion than being into the dumb Storm Trooper. as mentioned he didn't even do anything in this episode. He's just there to allow the liberal left to rub black men with white women into the faces of conservatives. They even kill rose off (a better character), to clear the way for the Finn/Rey thing that is just implausible.
Rose was injured, not killed, and the only Rey/Finn romance going on is the one in your head. I do agree with you that Finn is pretty bland as a character and didn't really feel like he belonged in a prominent role here. Circumstance didn't push him to the forefront like in TFA, and he doesn't have a strong personality like Han or Poe that would let him take charge.
The hot-headed rogue doesn't save the day by flying by seat-of-his-pants, in fact his recklessness is the driving force behind the fuck-up cascade.
Which is never addressed or acknowledged within the movie - in fact, it's casually brushed off with a smiling "Oh, you," leading me to question just how intentional it really was. I feel like they just made it up as they went along. Part of the blame also lies with Holdo and her lack of communication. It's one thing to not share every detail of a plan with subordinates, it's another to repeatedly refuse to indicate that there even is a plan, or even challenge the assumption that there's nothing to be done but wait to die. Like, even in the middle of the mutiny, she can't bring herself to explain that there's a very good reason behind what she's doing? It's an idiot plot.
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You know what didn't make sense narratively? Wasting a huge amount of screen time in the second act on a wild goose chase that not only proved to be a resounding failure, but ended up delivering the intel to the First Order that led to the Resistance being all but wiped out. What the fuck? Why would you write this into a movie?
This ruined the entire movie for me. The fact that critics are overlooking this and giving it good scores is troubling.
The hot-headed rogue doesn't save the day by flying by seat-of-his-pants
That's what Star Wars is supposed to be though.
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You know what didn't make sense narratively? Wasting a huge amount of screen time in the second act on a wild goose chase that not only proved to be a resounding failure, but ended up delivering the intel to the First Order that led to the Resistance being all but wiped out. What the fuck? Why would you write this into a movie?
This ruined the entire movie for me. The fact that critics are overlooking this and giving it good scores is troubling.
Aside from it being a bloaty addition, it was an entertaining sequence. That it led to a major clusterfuck is thematically woven in to the movie so it shouldn’t be that mystifying. Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t like it either, but it didn’t ruin anything else for me.
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I was worried at the beginning that they may try and do homage to Empire Strikes Back like The Force Awakens did for A New Hope. I was very pleased when it went its own way and I really enjoyed how they developed Ben and Rey. Some of Finn’s story felt a bit like extra fat that could be trimmed but I loved the circumstances the Resistance fleet was in.
I totally agree the humor was fun and not too much and I really enjoyed Luke’s story as well.
Very much agree with the entirety of this post, especially in regard to character development, allowing me to develop some interest. I had zero interest in Rey, Finn, or Ren, in The Force Awakens.
I felt this movie was so much better than that movie.
My Star Wars list:
1) Revenge of the Sith
2) Empire Strikes Back
3) Return of the Jedi
4) The Last Jedi
5) Clone Wars
6) The Phantom Menace
7) Star Wars
8) The Force Awakens
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You know what didn't make sense narratively? Wasting a huge amount of screen time in the second act on a wild goose chase that not only proved to be a resounding failure, but ended up delivering the intel to the First Order that led to the Resistance being all but wiped out. What the fuck? Why would you write this into a movie?
This ruined the entire movie for me. The fact that critics are overlooking this and giving it good scores is troubling.
Aside from it being a bloaty addition, it was an entertaining sequence. That it led to a major clusterfuck is thematically woven in to the movie so it shouldn’t be that mystifying. Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t like it either, but it didn’t ruin anything else for me.
That was the majority of the plot for the entire movie though. Aside from Rey’s little escapade to Luke’s Island:
“No I won’t help you. No. No. Nope. Get off of this island now. Okay I’ll help you.”
And then she trains for 5 minutes and suddenly is a Jedi who can take on multiple Imperial Guards.
Jarringly bad story, horrible continuity, mediocre acting. This one goes in the trash bin.
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SPOILERS SPOLIERS SPOLIERS SPOLIERS
I liked TLJ a lot but the whole thing seems to scream "Billy, Don't Be A Hero"
Its unusual to find so many "WTF" moments in a Star Wars film.
This is just the filmmakers being clever and setting up plot points only to reverse them.
When they were all guns blazing at Luke did anyone guess he was a hologram?
I just thought "Wow, Luke's powerful now, must be really pissed off"
So I agree, the film was great, one of the best in the series, and also one of the most stupid and implausible.
But since the last major outing was about the lead up to "help me OB1" and had every character dying on a suicide mission with no chance of a sequel, well, what can we really expect...
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My Star Wars list:
1) Revenge of the Sith
2) Empire Strikes Back
3) Return of the Jedi
4) The Last Jedi
5) Clone Wars
6) The Phantom Menace
7) Star Wars
8) The Force Awakens
While we're on the subject of REEing about subjective opinions and critical dissonance, I'm going to take this time to argue that RotS was a bad movie that owed its relative success among critics and audiences largely due to people convincing themselves it was good just because it made some improvements over the last two movies. It still was a badly-written, badly-directed, badly-acted slog of excessive CGI and unlikable characters. And I hate its treatment of Jedi as flashy lightsaber ninjas with impossibly flawless fight choreography. (All the prequels did this, but RotS was arguably worst of all.) I know that if you've seen the Plinkett reviews of the prequels, you'll recognize where this is from, but it happens to be the most correct thing RLM have ever said. Yoda should not be bouncing around with a tiny fucking lightsaber so that he can fight someone. If Yoda wanted to take someone out, he could just wave his hand and put them into a coma. To keep saying, "No, everyone must take their lightsabers out and fly all over the place," is wrong wrong wrong, and I'm glad that TLJ, much like TFA, kept to the slower, more methodical lightsaber combat of the original trilogy, as well as limiting the lightsaber use in general.
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That was the majority of the plot for the entire movie though. Aside from Rey’s little escapade to Luke’s Island:
“No I won’t help you. No. No. Nope. Get off of this island now. Okay I’ll help you.”
And then she trains for 5 minutes and suddenly is a Jedi who can take on multiple Imperial Guards.
That is a gross oversimplification.
Jarringly bad story, horrible continuity, mediocre acting. This one goes in the trash bin.
Matter of opinion but I can respect that, what does that even mean, nope, way better than Ep. 1-3.
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While we're on the subject of REEing about subjective opinions and critical dissonance, I'm going to take this time to argue that RotS was a bad movie that owed its relative success among critics and audiences largely due to people convincing themselves it was good just because it made some improvements over the last two movies. It still was a badly-written, badly-directed, badly-acted slog of excessive CGI and unlikable characters. And I hate its treatment of Jedi as flashy lightsaber ninjas with impossibly flawless fight choreography. (All the prequels did this, but RotS was arguably worst of all.) I know that if you've seen the Plinkett reviews of the prequels, you'll recognize where this is from, but it happens to be the most correct thing RLM have ever said. Yoda should not be bouncing around with a tiny fucking lightsaber so that he can fight someone. If Yoda wanted to take someone out, he could just wave his hand and put them into a coma. To keep saying, "No, everyone must take their lightsabers out and fly all over the place," is wrong wrong wrong, and I'm glad that TLJ, much like TFA, kept to the slower, more methodical lightsaber combat of the original trilogy, as well as limiting the lightsaber use in general.
Not to mention that the entire notion of Yoda fighting with a lightsaber is anathema to his philosophy of the force. Hayden Christiansen is a wooden, creepy moodbot and has been outacted by the entire cast of Spy Kids. And let's not forget that Darth Vader's reaction to Padme dying is one of the most memeable moments in movie history. Anyone who says that RotS is the best Star Wars movie should have their head checked and if they pass that, they owe everyone a 20,000 word essay on what lead them to this horrible moment in everyone's life.
Also, the Phantom Menace is not only the worst Star Wars movie's ever, it is one of the worst movie's ever, full stop. I am not going to sit here and tell anyone that A New Hope is a cinematic masterpiece, but it at least had a solid story. The Phantom Menace is basically gobbledigook and it still has to answer for introducing Jar Jar Binks to the world.
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Finally got to see VIII. It is objectively the best main story Star Wars movie ever. Okay maybe a tie with Empire.
Also, Saddam is mostly wrong as usual.
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Finally got to see VIII. It is objectively the best main story Star Wars movie ever. Okay maybe a tie with Empire.
>implying that Rogue One is better than all of these movies, including the original trilogy
Also, Saddam is mostly wrong as usual.
About what, pacifically? I mean, beyond Rogue One, which is a debate I refuse to have. Every defense I've read of the jumbled b-plot and its failure to properly pay off in the end insists that it's a parallel to Luke and Rey's story and ties into the general theme of failure, but that's not something that the movie itself really illustrates. Luke and Rey have complete arcs in this movie. They have a simple goal of turning Kylo to the light, fail at it, and are forced to confront their failures. That's very clearly what their part of the movie is "about." Anyone can see that. But the story for Finn, Poe, and Rose isn't "about" that at all. It's about the developing relationship between Finn and Rose and the social commentary during their visit to Canto Bight. (At least it is for Finn and Rose. Poe gives no indication that he's learned anything or changed as a person by the end of the movie.) The fact that the next thing they do is an enormous, catastrophic failure doesn't suddenly transform their arc into part of a grand thesis about the nature of failure. There's a world of difference between a character coming to terms with their failure and learning to accept its inevitability in an elaborate arc and a character simply failing at something spectacularly.
I hope you weren't claiming I was wrong about Yoda and the prequels. Yoda should not be bouncing around with a lightsaber. Nor should this guy:
(https://i.imgur.com/9Fa0Too.jpg)
Why don't the Jedi use any other weapons? Why does it always have to be a lightsaber? I want to see a Jedi who fights while dual-wielding blasters.
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Why don't the Jedi use any other weapons? Why does it always have to be a lightsaber? I want to see a Jedi who fights while dual-wielding blasters.
Erm ...
It’s your father’s lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster, but a more elegant weapon for a more civilized age.
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That's just, like, his opinion, man, and it really only makes sense if you're thinking of the Jedi as being limited to humans. It's hard to imagine a more clumsy and random combat strategy than Yoda turning himself into a hairy pinball.
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That's just, like, his opinion, man, and it really only makes sense if you're thinking of the Jedi as being limited to humans. It's hard to imagine a more clumsy and random combat strategy than Yoda turning himself into a hairy pinball.
Plus it’s dumb for Yoda to duel like that anyway. The force, by how own words is for knowledge and defense, never for attack.
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Also, the Phantom Menace is not only the worst Star Wars movie's ever, it is one of the worst movie's ever, full stop. I am not going to sit here and tell anyone that A New Hope is a cinematic masterpiece, but it at least had a solid story. The Phantom Menace is basically gobbledigook and it still has to answer for introducing Jar Jar Binks to the world.
Ep.1 is a bad movie, but it's not much worse than a lot of kid-friendly sci-fi action films of the nineties. It has some genuinely good moments like the Maul fight and at least clips along at a fast enough pace that, even if it's forgettable, isn't actively tedious.
Attack of the Clones is much worse. it has basically everything that was bad about TPM, but because it's wearing its big-boy-serious pants, the whole thing becomes a bloated, sluggish, tedious mess from beginning to end.
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Also, the Phantom Menace is not only the worst Star Wars movie's ever, it is one of the worst movie's ever, full stop. I am not going to sit here and tell anyone that A New Hope is a cinematic masterpiece, but it at least had a solid story. The Phantom Menace is basically gobbledigook and it still has to answer for introducing Jar Jar Binks to the world.
Ep.1 is a bad movie, but it's not much worse than a lot of kid-friendly sci-fi action films of the nineties. It has some genuinely good moments like the Maul fight and at least clips along at a fast enough pace that, even if it's forgettable, isn't actively tedious.
Attack of the Clones is much worse. it has basically everything that was bad about TPM, but because it's wearing its big-boy-serious pants, the whole thing becomes a bloated, sluggish, tedious mess from beginning to end.
Perhaps the set of kids 90s sci-fi movies are amongst the worst ever then? I find by the time I get to the pod race I want it all to end. Yes the Darth Maul duel is well choreographed but other than having cool horns and a double light saber there isn’t much to attach me to Maul. He doesn’t talk and doesn’t do anything other than ambush them and FIGHT! So in that respect, it is a bad piece of cinema. A very well-choreographed set piece, but still mostly filler.
You may be right about it being better than ATC though. Rapey-Hayden is so bad and the rest of the story is only sort of ok. The droid factory feels like a concept film for a side-scrolling video game adventure and they end up in a war far easier than anyone could have imagined.
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So am I the only one that thought the Darth Maul fight was extremely boring, then? Like, this fight?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WyUpuegcPQ
Aside from just the first exchange when Obi-Wan gets mad, they basically kinda slap their lightsabers together, do a few flips, and jump really high. It still comes off as a super lazy and dull fight to me, unless there's a layer of complexity I'm missing.
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Well, no, not that fight. That clip is blurry, discolored, and has been incomprehensibly edited and chopped-up. This is the actual fight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uvad9uSc9k
It still isn't very good, though. Like Rama pointed out, we don't know anything about Maul. He has only a few minutes of screen time, no discernible character, and he's abruptly dropped into the movie for a boss fight. The rapidly-changing setting also really bugs me. Isn't this fight supposed to be taking place in the main hangar? Then where are all these crisscrossing walkways, giant pits of doom, pillars of light, and laser doors coming from? This is an issue with most of the action scenes from the prequels. I feel like Lucas thought that people would be bored with fighting in one room or one distinct location - or maybe he himself was - so he'd have the combatants constantly running to new "cool" places to fight, almost like an MK stage transition. That leaves the audience with no real grasp of the geography of the fight, and more importantly, with their attention focused on the environment rather than the characters.
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Oh, okay, that does have a few more flips, nice. But yeah I don't know what the fuck was wrong with the one I posted. Oops.
Anyway, that fight is still boring. There's one more scene that's got neat choreography (at the start), but the rest is dull. Also yeah what you said.
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The weird backlash from an angry contingent of SW fanboys against this movie is still going strong several months later, to the degree that poor Kelly Marie Tran has fled social media, presumably due to constant abuse. It's insane, and I say this as somebody who had some pretty big issues with the movie. Look at this stupid shit, for example:
(https://i.imgur.com/PxbF1Dn.jpg)
Nobody gives a shit about Ackbar as a character. He's a meme who's known for saying that funny line once. The ramming scene wouldn't have been nearly as poignant with a stupid fishman puppet starring in it.
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I blame Trump.
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I would have preferred Ackbar, it keeps the dramatic circumstances tighter and we could have alleviated the movie of Laura Dern’s existence. Win-win. The moment couldn’t possibly have been more ineffective with ackbar.
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I would have preferred Ackbar, it keeps the dramatic circumstances tighter and we could have alleviated the movie of Laura Dern’s existence. Win-win. The moment couldn’t possibly have been more ineffective with ackbar.
HISHE did thst.
"DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS IS? ITS. A. TRRRAAAAAAPPPPPP!!!!"
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Yeah, that's why people would have liked it. Because of the meme.
The moment couldn’t possibly have been more ineffective with ackbar.
With a ridiculous puppet doing the acting instead of a talented actress?
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"DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS IS? ITS. A. TRRRAAAAAAPPPPPP!!!!"
That would actually be fantastic.
With a ridiculous puppet doing the acting instead of a talented actress?
Yes. No disrespect to the actress, but she has been inserted into the movie by force, with seemingly no good justification. Was inserting her character out of nowhere an attempt at appeasing the unappeasable SJW? Maybe, maybe not. But it certainly didn't help the movie.
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Guys, Ackbar should have walked into the room, turned to camera, shouted "Allahu ackbar", and blown himself to smithereens. That would not have offended anyone.
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Laura Dern's role really just made the movie make less sense. Her sacrifice wouldn't have been necessary if she hadn't handled things so stupidly. Her entire part was one big idiot ball. It's a shame because I like the actress but her character was more than unnecessary, it actually brought the movie down. I'm not saying the movie would have been better if Admiral Akbar had made the sacrifice but it would have been better if Laura Dern hadn't been in it at all.
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Wow you guys are all misogynists. Saddam is totally right.
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I'm not talking about Holdo's insertion and greater role in the story; just the ramming scene. There's a world of difference between criticizing a pointless subplot in which the heroic characters turn into idiots and create all their problems themselves and wanting to build a dramatic moment around a goofy-looking puppet for the sake of paying tribute to an Internet meme.
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I'm not talking about Holdo's insertion and greater role in the story; just the ramming scene. There's a world of difference between criticizing a pointless subplot in which the heroic characters turn into idiots and create all their problems themselves and wanting to build a dramatic moment around a goofy-looking puppet for the sake of paying tribute to an Internet meme.
Well sure but is one really worse than the other? And I was talking about the ramming scene too, because if the movie had been better written it wouldn't have even been necessary (or could have at least been done under more realistic circumstances than that all the characters involved including a military vice-admiral suddenly become drooling idiots).
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Holdo would have been a better character if they justified her paranoia with "We think there is a spy aboard".
As it stood, she's portrayed as untrusting and incompetent. She had a good plan, but stupidly thought keeping it secret was a good idea.
Also, she took WAY too long to shield the escape ships. Like "Oh, I'll just wait to see if most get destroyed before I do anything like move my big ass ship between them and give them protection."
She was put in to be a throw away character no one knew about so her motives for doing what she did wouldn't contradict any other history since we didn''t know any.
Like imagine if Leah had the same plan and acted the same way in initiating it. It would look out of character.
If they had done a "Oh, there is a spy/brainwashed person" on board and had the story revolve around that? Better. Would have given the story more of a personal paranoia touch.
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I mean, maybe their point was that this is what happens when you give a woman military power, who knows? Is it possible she was being overly emotional and irrational about it because she was ragging, or going through the symptoms of menopause? I've seen menopause in action, it is literally a bitch.
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I mean, maybe their point was that this is what happens when you give a woman military power, who knows? Is it possible she was being overly emotional and irrational about it because she was ragging, or going through the symptoms of menopause? I've seen menopause in action, it is literally a bitch.
You should ask your doctor for some HRT.
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I'm not talking about Holdo's insertion and greater role in the story; just the ramming scene. There's a world of difference between criticizing a pointless subplot in which the heroic characters turn into idiots and create all their problems themselves and wanting to build a dramatic moment around a goofy-looking puppet for the sake of paying tribute to an Internet meme.
That's fine if you think that separation is meaningful or important to you. To me, the events that lead up to the scene are inseparable from the scene itself. Sure, Ackbar looks goofy, but the reasoning of "we can't have him resume his obvious role because he'd look goofy in that one scene" simply doesn't speak to me. Plus, it's not like Admiral Mauvelocks looked any less goofy than Ackbar.
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When has Star Warts ever not looked goofy?
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Yeah, that's why people would have liked it. Because of the meme.
The moment couldn’t possibly have been more ineffective with ackbar.
With a ridiculous puppet doing the acting instead of a talented actress?
A puppet with whom the audience has a history with rather than a character that was badly written and shoe-horned unnecessarily in to a story? Yeah I’ll take the puppet. You could even have the First Order look at the advancing blip and say, “What is this? Surely it’s a trap.”
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You could even have the First Order look at the advancing blip and say, “What is this? Surely it’s a trap.”
That is terrible and you should feel bad about yourself.
Also, Holdo and her conflict with Poe is an allegory of angry women/feminists arguing with men. Holdo represents the feminists/SJWs/Tumblr users because she's a woman and also because she has dyed hair, a concept that didn't exist before Tumblr. Rian Johnson wanted the struggle to end with a victory for Holdo and the SJWs, but because the character acts so unreasonable and uncommunicative the whole time, her supposed moral high ground feels very forced. This is why feminists and SJWs are bad. Hollywood fills enormous movies with coded references to things only tiny niche Internet subcultures would understand. Holdo could only have purple hair because she's a Tumblrina who majors in gender studies. There's no other explanation.
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Finally got to see VIII. It is objectively the best main story Star Wars movie ever. Okay maybe a tie with Empire.
Also, Saddam is mostly wrong as usual.
I think I need to watch the movie again... In my defense, this was only a couple of days before I took a several month hiatus from drinking, and I was undoubtedly smashed whilst watching the movie (which definitely makes me all nostalgic for crap like this). I really don't remember much of it at this point. Obviously I still had some wits about me as I was able to recognize Saddam being wrong.
However, reading the first page of the thread, it seems like a lot more people were favorable to the movie as opposed to now. Obviously the movie didn't change, so is it the media coverage blaming men for criticizing legitimate problems with the film the reason why folks are growing tired of it? Or the harassmentTM
Also I saw that the director or someone is threatening fans of the movie with "consequences" if they don't stop being so mean.
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Don't get me wrong, I liked the movie. That said, I do think it had issues, and many of them were due to perceived social pressures. Plus it's great fun to watch Saddam try to dehumanise dissenters of the mighty SJW empire while offering nothing other than "but doing it the way it's always been done would be dumb and goofy".
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Finally got to see VIII. It is objectively the best main story Star Wars movie ever. Okay maybe a tie with Empire.
Also, Saddam is mostly wrong as usual.
I think I need to watch the movie again... In my defense, this was only a couple of days before I took a several month hiatus from drinking, and I was undoubtedly smashed whilst watching the movie (which definitely makes me all nostalgic for crap like this). I really don't remember much of it at this point. Obviously I still had some wits about me as I was able to recognize Saddam being wrong.
However, reading the first page of the thread, it seems like a lot more people were favorable to the movie as opposed to now. Obviously the movie didn't change, so is it the media coverage blaming men for criticizing legitimate problems with the film the reason why folks are growing tired of it? Or the harassmentTM
Also I saw that the director or someone is threatening fans of the movie with "consequences" if they don't stop being so mean.
Or the hype wore off and people started seeing the flaws.
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However, reading the first page of the thread, it seems like a lot more people were favorable to the movie as opposed to now.
I don't think we've had "a lot" of people discussing the movie at all. There are only a handful of us in total, and it's not all the same people. Ghost/Chris loved the movie, Andrew hated it, and everyone else has been mixed-to-positive.
Obviously the movie didn't change, so is it the media coverage blaming men for criticizing legitimate problems with the film the reason why folks are growing tired of it? Or the harassmentTM
This is confusingly phrased. As someone who's heavily plugged into pop culture, I can guarantee that TLJ was enormously controversial from the moment it was released, and one or two wise souls from the pre-release screenings even warned reddit that this would not be a movie they embraced. I'm not aware of any mass backlash or shift in opinion, and I don't see why the articles you mentioned (and inaccurately described) would have changed anyone's opinion of the movie.
Also I saw that the director or someone is threatening fans of the movie with "consequences" if they don't stop being so mean.
I believe you're talking about what James Mangold said (https://www.indiewire.com/2018/07/james-mangold-warning-toxic-fandom-rian-johnson-backlash-1201982291/), although he's not the only director to have weighed in on this. Mangold can be very pretentious at times, and one thing that absolutely drives me nuts about the way he writes is his feigned affect of being this folksy, salt-of-the-earth, rough-and-tumble, blue-collar guy who ain't one for talking English good because he's just an average joe who wears blue jeans and drives a tractor! It's such bullshit. He doesn't talk like that, because nobody talks like that, and even if he did, he still wouldn't write like that. But, uh, setting all that aside, he does make a valid point.
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I'm not aware of any mass backlash or shift in opinion, and I don't see why the articles you mentioned (and inaccurately described) would have changed anyone's opinion of the movie.
Did you intend to reply to me? If so, I would suggest maybe going back and reading my post again. I didn't mention any articles, and was talking rather generally so I am not sure how I would inaccurately describe anything related to said "articles."
And I have no idea what your last paragraph was rambling on about. I don't really care, but it seems like you had a lot you wanted to say, so you have at it.
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Finally got to see VIII. It is objectively the best main story Star Wars movie ever. Okay maybe a tie with Empire.
Also, Saddam is mostly wrong as usual.
I think I need to watch the movie again... In my defense, this was only a couple of days before I took a several month hiatus from drinking, and I was undoubtedly smashed whilst watching the movie (which definitely makes me all nostalgic for crap like this). I really don't remember much of it at this point. Obviously I still had some wits about me as I was able to recognize Saddam being wrong.
However, reading the first page of the thread, it seems like a lot more people were favorable to the movie as opposed to now. Obviously the movie didn't change, so is it the media coverage blaming men for criticizing legitimate problems with the film the reason why folks are growing tired of it? Or the harassmentTM
Also I saw that the director or someone is threatening fans of the movie with "consequences" if they don't stop being so mean.
Or the hype wore off and people started seeing the flaws.
Yes, it has always been bad.
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Did you intend to reply to me? If so, I would suggest maybe going back and reading my post again. I didn't mention any articles, and was talking rather generally so I am not sure how I would inaccurately describe anything related to said "articles."
You talked about recent media coverage. That comes in the form of news articles.
And I have no idea what your last paragraph was rambling on about. I don't really care, but it seems like you had a lot you wanted to say, so you have at it.
It is a most pertinent point.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/movies/kelly-marie-tran.html
Star Wars fans rise up
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/movies/kelly-marie-tran.html
Star Wars fans rise up
Or at 17, when at dinner with my white boyfriend and his family, I ordered a meal in perfect English, to the surprise of the waitress, who exclaimed, “Wow, it’s so cute that you have an exchange student!”
And then she threw her drink on the waitress and the whole restaurant clapped, and a customer gave her a %100$ bill.
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And that customer's name was Albert Einstein.