[gizmo910]

Given the level of fraud the FE faithful suggest, there is a great opportunity for them here. There are "whistle blower" laws [...]

What an awesome opportunity [...]

What an awesome opportunity to get murdered in cold blood, as previous whistleblowers have. Please, I know you're trying to be generous, but you can take all the glory on that one.

Unlike Wikipedia proper, your wiki lacks a significant amount of references. Reading that page is a pain. The whole thing reads like a conspiracy manifesto. Doing further research on Thomas Baron, it would appear he wasn't attempting to claim NASA is fake, instead he was trying to show congress that the majority of accidents that happened to the early Apollo program could have been avoided if they were more safety-oriented. The train accident was deemed a freak accident, even with a civilian witness. Your article infers too much, and references little.

[StinkyOne]

Given the level of fraud the FE faithful suggest, there is a great opportunity for them here. There are "whistle blower" laws [...]

What an awesome opportunity [...]

What an awesome opportunity to get murdered in cold blood, as previous whistleblowers have. Please, I know you're trying to be generous, but you can take all the glory on that one.

Can you please show us the testimony that shows Mr. Baron saying NASA wasn't running a space program? His report was about safety concerns following the Apollo 1 fire. He was concerned that NASA was sweeping safety under the rug. Further, the fire itself does beg the question - why were astronauts aboard a rocket being prepared to be launched into space if we can't actually do that?

His death was witnessed. His car was hit by a train. How you get a man to drive his car into the path of speeding train in an effort to murder him is something I would like explained. Again, just another unsupported statement in the Wiki. A murder-suicide is much easier to pull off.

[Mark_1984]

You could always defect to one of the countries not involved in the conspiracy, then blow your whistle.  I'm sure North Korea would be overjoyed at the opportunity to show everybody how they were being fooled by their governments.

[Curious Squirrel]

Given the level of fraud the FE faithful suggest, there is a great opportunity for them here. There are "whistle blower" laws [...]

What an awesome opportunity [...]

What an awesome opportunity to get murdered in cold blood, as previous whistleblowers have. Please, I know you're trying to be generous, but you can take all the glory on that one.

http://www.clavius.org/baron.html Seems a fairly decent breakdown of the issues your wiki raises about Thomas. History claims the report was indeed delivered to Congress. That it disappeared isn't necessarily evidence of foul play either. It not being strong evidence is a compelling point in favor of it not being hung onto for more normal reasons.

I know you're trying to make it seem like whistleblowing is highly dangerous here, but protections for those doing so are also much higher than in Thomas's time, not to mention many countries very likely willing to take someone in and come out with their own evidence in this scenario.

[inquisitive]

Given the level of fraud the FE faithful suggest, there is a great opportunity for them here. There are "whistle blower" laws [...]

What an awesome opportunity [...]

What an awesome opportunity to get murdered in cold blood, as previous whistleblowers have. Please, I know you're trying to be generous, but you can take all the glory on that one.

A train crashed into his car. Murdered?

[gizmo910]

Maybe the wiki should use some revisions:

During the start of the Apollo missions former NASA Safety Inspector Thomas Ronald Baron participated in a Congressional Hearing where he complained that NASA was not operating a real safe space program.

He complained about NASA's fraudulent unsafe practices, low quality control, and the practice of keeping every employee in the dark about the big picture{source?}. R. E. Reyes, an engineer in KSC's Preflight Operations Branch, said Baron filed so many negative charges against NASA that, had KSC heeded them all, NASA would not have had a man on the moon until the year 2069.{source?}

Thomas was a real fear that the program could be stopped in its tracks
—Julian Scheer, Former NASA Spokesman {source?}

Baron testified before congress that the Apollo program was such disarray the United States would never make it to the moon {source?}. His claim and his opinions made him the target {source?}.

Then, ironically, Baron himself was stopped in his tracks. Exactly one week after he testified before Congress and only days before his report was set to be released Baron's car was [/s]stocked[/s] hit by a train. Baron, his wife and his step daughter were killed instantly. The incident was deemed by the police to be an accident. Baron's unpublished 500 page Congressional Report detailing the specific deficiencies of the Apollo program was never found.

[mtnman]

Given the level of fraud the FE faithful suggest, there is a great opportunity for them here. There are "whistle blower" laws [...]

What an awesome opportunity [...]

What an awesome opportunity to get murdered in cold blood, as previous whistleblowers have. Please, I know you're trying to be generous, but you can take all the glory on that one.

I'm throwing the complete BS flag on that. I've read some of the testimony, this was a guy complaining about safety procedures and such. Said that procedures were not adequate, not followed, etc. He wasn't claiming that the whole program was being faked. But then again, if it was all being faked, why would they have safety inspectors anyway?

What evidence is there that he was murdered? You and your "wiki" make this claim without any.

Even on it's face it's a stupid claim. Sure, they "silenced" him... after he talked to the media and congress.

You to dredge that up as an excuse to skirt the issue that you have no evidence anyway. If you actually believed that the men in black were going to come and silence you, why would you be posting stuff here? You wouldn't.

You'll probably come back with an excuse that posting here is anonymous and that isn't your actual picture or something. But let's face it, if the government was capable of fooling the world as you claim, then they would surely be capable of tracking you down, right?

[Curious Squirrel]

Maybe the wiki should use some revisions:

During the start of the Apollo missions former NASA Safety Inspector Thomas Ronald Baron participated in a Congressional Hearing where he complained that NASA was not operating a real safe space program.

He complained about NASA's fraudulent unsafe practices, low quality control, and the practice of keeping every employee in the dark about the big picture{source?}. R. E. Reyes, an engineer in KSC's Preflight Operations Branch, said Baron filed so many negative charges against NASA that, had KSC heeded them all, NASA would not have had a man on the moon until the year 2069.{source?}

Thomas was a real fear that the program could be stopped in its tracks
—Julian Scheer, Former NASA Spokesman {source?}

Baron testified before congress that the Apollo program was such disarray the United States would never make it to the moon {source?}. His claim and his opinions made him the target {source?}.

Then, ironically, Baron himself was stopped in his tracks. Exactly one week after he testified before Congress and only days before his report was set to be released Baron's car was stocked hit by a train. Baron, his wife and his step daughter were killed instantly. The incident was deemed by the police to be an accident. Baron's unpublished 500 page Congressional Report detailing the specific deficiencies of the Apollo program was never found publicly published after being delivered to Congress before his death.

One small extra bit on the end there, as Thomas himself stated his report was delivered to the head of the Congressional committee exploring this. This quite firmly plants the trail of ownership as ending with Congress as far as public record is concerned. It not being released to the public is very different than not being 'found' (whatever that might mean since it implies he had it on him at time of death).

The listed quote by Julian Scheer I as well would be very interested in seeing a source for, as a search for it only brings up the TFES Wiki page. Sounds so far like the claim recently on the other site that Colombus got into a fight with his crew over his belief the Earth is flat. Although I suppose there's always the famous quote: "The internet, like myself, can never tell a lie." - Abraham Lincoln.

[Dither]

You could always defect to one of the countries not involved in the conspiracy,

All space agencies are connected, they even have similar insignias,

 http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2014/04/02/north-korean-space-agency-copies-nasa-logo/

To be fair, if you are launching craft into a perceived orbit, then you need some communication with the other national agency's so you don't end up all crashing into each other. But if your looking for clues that they are all interconected in some way then its not too hard to find, in fact, its right in front of you.

 

[gizmo910]

But if your looking for clues that they are all interconected in some way then its not too hard to find, in fact, its right in front of you.

Where? What is the evidence that *all* space agencies are "interconnected?"

[devils advocate]

You could always defect to one of the countries not involved in the conspiracy,

All space agencies are connected, they even have similar insignias,

 http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2014/04/02/north-korean-space-agency-copies-nasa-logo/

To be fair, if you are launching craft into a perceived orbit, then you need some communication with the other national agency's so you don't end up all crashing into each other. But if your looking for clues that they are all interconected in some way then its not too hard to find, in fact, its right in front of you.

Cooperation yes, "connected" has deeper implications. Look at the powerhouse nations in the UN and the conflicts hot and cold that have occurred between them. To say they comunicate therefore they are united in a conspiracy is a great leap of judgment.

[Tom Bishop]

Maybe the wiki should use some revisions:

During the start of the Apollo missions former NASA Safety Inspector Thomas Ronald Baron participated in a Congressional Hearing where he complained that NASA was not operating a real safe space program.

He complained about NASA's fraudulent unsafe practices, low quality control, and the practice of keeping every employee in the dark about the big picture{source?}. R. E. Reyes, an engineer in KSC's Preflight Operations Branch, said Baron filed so many negative charges against NASA that, had KSC heeded them all, NASA would not have had a man on the moon until the year 2069.{source?}

Thomas was a real fear that the program could be stopped in its tracks
—Julian Scheer, Former NASA Spokesman {source?}

Baron testified before congress that the Apollo program was such disarray the United States would never make it to the moon {source?}. His claim and his opinions made him the target {source?}.

Then, ironically, Baron himself was stopped in his tracks. Exactly one week after he testified before Congress and only days before his report was set to be released Baron's car was stocked hit by a train. Baron, his wife and his step daughter were killed instantly. The incident was deemed by the police to be an accident. Baron's unpublished 500 page Congressional Report detailing the specific deficiencies of the Apollo program was never found publicly published after being delivered to Congress before his death.

One small extra bit on the end there, as Thomas himself stated his report was delivered to the head of the Congressional committee exploring this. This quite firmly plants the trail of ownership as ending with Congress as far as public record is concerned. It not being released to the public is very different than not being 'found' (whatever that might mean since it implies he had it on him at time of death).

The listed quote by Julian Scheer I as well would be very interested in seeing a source for, as a search for it only brings up the TFES Wiki page. Sounds so far like the claim recently on the other site that Colombus got into a fight with his crew over his belief the Earth is flat. Although I suppose there's always the famous quote: "The internet, like myself, can never tell a lie." - Abraham Lincoln.

Did you try checking the bottom of the article for the source that information comes from?

http://www.clavius.org/baron.html Seems a fairly decent breakdown of the issues your wiki raises about Thomas. History claims the report was indeed delivered to Congress. That it disappeared isn't necessarily evidence of foul play either. It not being strong evidence is a compelling point in favor of it not being hung onto for more normal reasons.

I know you're trying to make it seem like whistleblowing is highly dangerous here, but protections for those doing so are also much higher than in Thomas's time, not to mention many countries very likely willing to take someone in and come out with their own evidence in this scenario.

Clavius is a NASA-authored site. The authors admit that it was written by "space industry professionals".

[gizmo910]

Did you try checking the bottom of the article for the source that information comes from?

literally a *youtube* video and the very wikipedia article contradicting your page. No evidence from a valid source stating reasons for the inferences.

[Tom Bishop]

Did you try checking the bottom of the article for the source that information comes from?

literally a *youtube* video and the very wikipedia article contradicting your page. No evidence from a valid source stating reasons for the inferences.

The Fox documentary says that the report was not found. The Wikipedia page says [citation needed] next to the assertion someone put in that the report was delivered.

[gizmo910]

Did you try checking the bottom of the article for the source that information comes from?

literally a *youtube* video and the very wikipedia article contradicting your page. No evidence from a valid source stating reasons for the inferences.

The Fox documentary says that the report was not found. The Wikipedia page says [citation needed] next to the assertion someone put in that the report was delivered.

I'm not referencing the *missing* report. I'm referencing the statements that his intentions were to expose NASA's "lies" when he said no such things. He reported on the blatant disregard for safety. Is there reference to his statements of his attempt to undermine NASA? Where is the proof that the KSC "kept employees in the dark"?

[Curious Squirrel]

Maybe the wiki should use some revisions:

During the start of the Apollo missions former NASA Safety Inspector Thomas Ronald Baron participated in a Congressional Hearing where he complained that NASA was not operating a real safe space program.

He complained about NASA's fraudulent unsafe practices, low quality control, and the practice of keeping every employee in the dark about the big picture{source?}. R. E. Reyes, an engineer in KSC's Preflight Operations Branch, said Baron filed so many negative charges against NASA that, had KSC heeded them all, NASA would not have had a man on the moon until the year 2069.{source?}

Thomas was a real fear that the program could be stopped in its tracks
—Julian Scheer, Former NASA Spokesman {source?}

Baron testified before congress that the Apollo program was such disarray the United States would never make it to the moon {source?}. His claim and his opinions made him the target {source?}.

Then, ironically, Baron himself was stopped in his tracks. Exactly one week after he testified before Congress and only days before his report was set to be released Baron's car was stocked hit by a train. Baron, his wife and his step daughter were killed instantly. The incident was deemed by the police to be an accident. Baron's unpublished 500 page Congressional Report detailing the specific deficiencies of the Apollo program was never found publicly published after being delivered to Congress before his death.

One small extra bit on the end there, as Thomas himself stated his report was delivered to the head of the Congressional committee exploring this. This quite firmly plants the trail of ownership as ending with Congress as far as public record is concerned. It not being released to the public is very different than not being 'found' (whatever that might mean since it implies he had it on him at time of death).

The listed quote by Julian Scheer I as well would be very interested in seeing a source for, as a search for it only brings up the TFES Wiki page. Sounds so far like the claim recently on the other site that Colombus got into a fight with his crew over his belief the Earth is flat. Although I suppose there's always the famous quote: "The internet, like myself, can never tell a lie." - Abraham Lincoln.

Did you try checking the bottom of the article for the source that information comes from?

Oh yes, I'm certain a YouTube video titled: "Thomas Baron and astronauts killed to keep Apollo program alive" is a great source of legitimate and unbiased information. That doesn't change the fact your second source doesn't agree with what you've written in the wiki page, and the actual accounts available don't either.

"There was real fear, that the program could be stopped dead in it's tracks" - Julian Scheer. No context, just a sound bite. Oh yeah, seems super trustworthy. Definitely talking about Thomas and couldn't be any of a number of things that happened during the early years.

The YouTube video is something straight from FOX NEWS, which you'll excuse me for being instantly wary of the legitimacy of presentation. Your wiki STILL lies about what was said, even in that video though btw.

http://www.clavius.org/baron.html Seems a fairly decent breakdown of the issues your wiki raises about Thomas. History claims the report was indeed delivered to Congress. That it disappeared isn't necessarily evidence of foul play either. It not being strong evidence is a compelling point in favor of it not being hung onto for more normal reasons.

I know you're trying to make it seem like whistleblowing is highly dangerous here, but protections for those doing so are also much higher than in Thomas's time, not to mention many countries very likely willing to take someone in and come out with their own evidence in this scenario.

Clavius is a NASA-funded site. The authors admit that it was written by "space industry professionals".

As far as the website I linked, it's given as a source by Wikipedia (and the TFES wiki by extension), and the logic follows cleanly in his statements, with the facts backed up by publicly available information.

Did you try checking the bottom of the article for the source that information comes from?

literally a *youtube* video and the very wikipedia article contradicting your page. No evidence from a valid source stating reasons for the inferences.

The Fox documentary says that the report was not found. The Wikipedia page says [citation needed] next to the assertion someone put in that the report was delivered.

"Mr. BARON: I have sent to the chairman of this committee a more through report which includes all the names."
"Mr. TEAGUE: Your report went to the chairman of the full committee [i.e., Rep. George P. Miller, Chairman of the House Committee on Science and Astronautics. --Clavius], not to me. He told me he received it."
http://www.clavius.org/baron-test.html

[johnny]

Explain the land of the midnight sun. That's when the sun doesn't drop below the horizon and it happens in two regions on earth at opposite times of the year.those regions are the Arctic Circle and the Antarctic Circle. if the Earth is flat then I would like the evidence that explains this actual real life phenomenon. If the Flat Earth theory cannot explain this real life phenomenon then I conclude the Earth is convex and spherical, however I do think something strange is happening in Antarctica. Like a secret base shh lol. I don't like bad theories making my fellow man look like idiots, they threw away and ignore your supposed proof because they trust the facts  over pseudoscience

[Pete Svarrior]

I know you're trying to make it seem like whistleblowing is highly dangerous here, but protections for those doing so are also much higher than in Thomas's time

I have a hunch Edward Snowden and Julian Assange would not agree with you on that one. Besides, the nice thing about an arranged "freak accident" is that it's fairly immune to legal protections.

not to mention many countries very likely willing to take someone in and come out with their own evidence in this scenario.

Like who? Name a country that's large enough to credibly oppose the United States while not having a "space program" of their own. Then, explain why you think said country would be interested in getting the attention of American enforcers.

[mtnman]

I know you're trying to make it seem like whistleblowing is highly dangerous here, but protections for those doing so are also much higher than in Thomas's time

I have a hunch Edward Snowden and Julian Assange would not agree with you on that one. Besides, the nice thing about an arranged "freak accident" is that it's fairly immune to legal protections.

Well there is your answer Pete. Wikileaks. It's obvious that you agree that Assange goes to great lengths to protect his sources and to keep them anonymous. So send him your rock solid conspiracy evidence and murder evidence and he will publish it without the men in black being able to track you down.

[Nightgleam]

You could always defect to one of the countries not involved in the conspiracy,

All space agencies are connected, they even have similar insignias,

 http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2014/04/02/north-korean-space-agency-copies-nasa-logo/

To be fair, if you are launching craft into a perceived orbit, then you need some communication with the other national agency's so you don't end up all crashing into each other. But if your looking for clues that they are all interconected in some way then its not too hard to find, in fact, its right in front of you.

I've seen a lot of fake watches being made in China that claim to be Rolex. Does that mean that Rolex is connected to all those fake watches?