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Offline JRowe

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Re: South Pole
« Reply #80 on: June 09, 2015, 10:32:22 PM »
If, if, satellite tv came from balloons or similar you would see dishes pointing in different directions.  However in the northern hemisphere they all point southish.

And there might be some documentation explaining how it works...

So balloons/airships/towers are to the south. Unless you have some reason why that's impossible, that seems to be a pointless admission.

Establishing it's possible under your worldview is nowhere near enough. You're insisting that this makes Flat Earth Theory impossible: so, why is it impossible for an in-atmosphere system to function? That's the question you need to answer.

If it's predictable, they can compensate: that means nothing.
The receiver would have to compensate.  Are you aware of any such compensating mechanism in a home satellite dish or are you just asserting?
Or the transmitter could compensate by synchronizing signals, or altering in a specific way. I don't profess to know every detail of how it works, that is what a conspiracy is. The fact is, however, an in-atmosphere system will work just fine.
Why should there be a conspiracy about how satellite tv works?  Who is in on it?
The conspiracy is the satellites: space travel. It would likely just be the higher-ups who launch the satellites that are in on it: they know the position, they can compensate. All the mechanisms would be simple to adapt.
My DE model explained here.
Open to questions, but if you're curious start there rather than expecting me to explain it all from scratch every time.

Re: South Pole
« Reply #81 on: June 09, 2015, 10:36:32 PM »
If, if, satellite tv came from balloons or similar you would see dishes pointing in different directions.  However in the northern hemisphere they all point southish.

And there might be some documentation explaining how it works...

So balloons/airships/towers are to the south. Unless you have some reason why that's impossible, that seems to be a pointless admission.

Establishing it's possible under your worldview is nowhere near enough. You're insisting that this makes Flat Earth Theory impossible: so, why is it impossible for an in-atmosphere system to function? That's the question you need to answer.

If it's predictable, they can compensate: that means nothing.
The receiver would have to compensate.  Are you aware of any such compensating mechanism in a home satellite dish or are you just asserting?
Or the transmitter could compensate by synchronizing signals, or altering in a specific way. I don't profess to know every detail of how it works, that is what a conspiracy is. The fact is, however, an in-atmosphere system will work just fine.
Why should there be a conspiracy about how satellite tv works?  Who is in on it?
The conspiracy is the satellites: space travel. It would likely just be the higher-ups who launch the satellites that are in on it: they know the position, they can compensate. All the mechanisms would be simple to adapt.
Any details of any (just one is a start) positions of these objects.  Triangulation of dish angles shows satellite positions.

Higher-ups? What about the engineers and scientists who design, build and maintain satellites?

Who builds the other objects?  Company name please.

Rama Set

Re: South Pole
« Reply #82 on: June 10, 2015, 12:24:06 AM »
I don't profess to know every detail of how it works, that is what a conspiracy is. The fact is, however, an in-atmosphere system will work just fine.

How do you know?  You seem to not know a lot of things about how this would work, yet claim to know for a fact that it would. This is a big problem.

I know that my satellite dish must point at a very narrow point in the sky. If it moves a mm or two, no reception whatsoever; not a gradient of reception quality, like you get from a radio receiver moving in and out of a reception area. There is no tower or other such land-based fixture in its line of sight, so you can disqualify that notion. I can see no balloons or airships hanging in view either. Perhaps an air borne transmitter would be too small for me to see, but how do you keep it geo-stationary in a turbulent atmosphere?  I don't know. How does it stay fuelled?  It requires much more fuel to remain airborne in the atmosphere than it would in space. All these land based solutions are incredibly problematic to me  Can you answer any of these concerns?  Even hypothetically?

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Offline JRowe

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Re: South Pole
« Reply #83 on: June 10, 2015, 02:31:01 PM »
If, if, satellite tv came from balloons or similar you would see dishes pointing in different directions.  However in the northern hemisphere they all point southish.

And there might be some documentation explaining how it works...

So balloons/airships/towers are to the south. Unless you have some reason why that's impossible, that seems to be a pointless admission.

Establishing it's possible under your worldview is nowhere near enough. You're insisting that this makes Flat Earth Theory impossible: so, why is it impossible for an in-atmosphere system to function? That's the question you need to answer.

If it's predictable, they can compensate: that means nothing.
The receiver would have to compensate.  Are you aware of any such compensating mechanism in a home satellite dish or are you just asserting?
Or the transmitter could compensate by synchronizing signals, or altering in a specific way. I don't profess to know every detail of how it works, that is what a conspiracy is. The fact is, however, an in-atmosphere system will work just fine.
Why should there be a conspiracy about how satellite tv works?  Who is in on it?
The conspiracy is the satellites: space travel. It would likely just be the higher-ups who launch the satellites that are in on it: they know the position, they can compensate. All the mechanisms would be simple to adapt.
Any details of any (just one is a start) positions of these objects.  Triangulation of dish angles shows satellite positions.

Higher-ups? What about the engineers and scientists who design, build and maintain satellites?

Who builds the other objects?  Company name please.
Triangulation of dishes pointed at the same transmitter will show the location. How else do you expect me to get an answer?
If you cannot think of any possible way to find an answer to a question, why ask it?

Those who design and build satellites are responsible for the crucial mechanisms. It's compartmentalized: everyone would think someone else was behind the "go to space," section.
This is just speculation, mind you. I am not in on the conspiracy, I do not know the details, why are you acting as though I should?

Many companies make balloons and airships. I do not know which one is employed.

I don't profess to know every detail of how it works, that is what a conspiracy is. The fact is, however, an in-atmosphere system will work just fine.

How do you know?  You seem to not know a lot of things about how this would work, yet claim to know for a fact that it would. This is a big problem.

I know that my satellite dish must point at a very narrow point in the sky. If it moves a mm or two, no reception whatsoever; not a gradient of reception quality, like you get from a radio receiver moving in and out of a reception area. There is no tower or other such land-based fixture in its line of sight, so you can disqualify that notion. I can see no balloons or airships hanging in view either. Perhaps an air borne transmitter would be too small for me to see, but how do you keep it geo-stationary in a turbulent atmosphere?  I don't know. How does it stay fuelled?  It requires much more fuel to remain airborne in the atmosphere than it would in space. All these land based solutions are incredibly problematic to me  Can you answer any of these concerns?  Even hypothetically?
I do not know the details of how a combustion engine works: I know my car goes.

I do not know the location of a balloon: and they may be clear, or sky-colored, so it would be hard to see. It would not take too much fuel to remain aloft, much less have a small motor to keep it in roughly the same position. Don't forget, satellites are made to be as light as possible: supposedly to make ascesion to space easier. It would not take too much fuel to keep something so light up.
They may be solar powered: in that case, it would keep going. Or perhaps they use wind power, so the more turbulent it is, the easier it will be for them to keep in a fixed location.
My DE model explained here.
Open to questions, but if you're curious start there rather than expecting me to explain it all from scratch every time.

Re: South Pole
« Reply #84 on: June 10, 2015, 05:56:46 PM »
JRowe - why not make some effort to find the location of a balloon etc.  Then come back and tell us where one is.

Rama Set

Re: South Pole
« Reply #85 on: June 10, 2015, 06:58:41 PM »
I do not know the details of how a combustion engine works: I know my car goes.

Not really a good comparison.  The in-atmosphere system you are talking about is completely clandestine to the point where there is literally no public knowledge about it; I see hundreds of cars working every day and have a decent sense of the overall mechanics of an IC engine.  On the other hand, you can not give any firm details on how such a system should work, only the role it needs to fulfill.  How do you know such a system is possible and able to remain extremely clandestine?

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I do not know the location of a balloon: and they may be clear, or sky-colored, so it would be hard to see.
Sky-coloured? For what conditions in the sky?  For what time of day?  Clear is out unless you are aware of how to make a transparent radio transmitter.

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It would not take too much fuel to remain aloft, much less have a small motor to keep it in roughly the same position.

It would have to run 24 hours a day for long periods of time though.

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Don't forget, satellites are made to be as light as possible: supposedly to make ascesion to space easier.

Light being a relative term of course.  The GOES-R satellite, a weather satellite weighs 2800kg.  More than a car.

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It would not take too much fuel to keep something so light up.

So how light is light in this case?  1000kg?  500kg?  The details matter when making assertions like this.

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They may be solar powered: in that case, it would keep going. Or perhaps they use wind power, so the more turbulent it is, the easier it will be for them to keep in a fixed location.

Well you can discount solar power as it would be reflective at certain angles, greatly reducing the ability for it to remain hidden, remember they need to operate over controlled airspace without detection.  Wind power is also unlikely as it could not adjust to turbulence as quickly as you would need since there would be an inefficiency in power transfer. 

Rama Set

Re: South Pole
« Reply #86 on: June 10, 2015, 07:00:07 PM »
JRowe - why not make some effort to find the location of a balloon etc.  Then come back and tell us where one is.

@Jrowe-This is a good idea.  You complain about not having resources, but all you would need to do in this case is take a mediocre telescope and scan the extremely small portion of sky that a satellite dish is required to point at to function.

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Offline JRowe

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Re: South Pole
« Reply #87 on: June 11, 2015, 11:25:51 AM »
JRowe - why not make some effort to find the location of a balloon etc.  Then come back and tell us where one is.

I'd need much more information than I currently have: there's quite an area of sky covered by one dish, which a powerful telescope would take ages to cover, likely missing several details: and what would the point be anyway? I couldn't work out any facts about it except "in that general direction," and even if I uploaded a photo you'd insist it was just a regular balloon or airship or whatever. I see no reason to waste time doing something utterly pointless.

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How do you know such a system is possible and able to remain extremely clandestine?
I have explained how it is possible, and people are able to keep secrets: so it is possible. The reason I know it is the case, is that it is a consequence of how I know the world to be.

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Sky-coloured? For what conditions in the sky?  For what time of day?  Clear is out unless you are aware of how to make a transparent radio transmitter.
The sky is blue. Clouds will conceal it on other days: and even an approximate colour will make it hard to spot. Sunrise/sunsets are the only time it might be easier to see, but it's hard to make out details then anyway.
It's the balloon that needs to be clear, the radio transmitter would be far too small to spot.

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So how light is light in this case? 
I don't know, I don't have one sitting in my backyard. Only part of a satellite is required: much of a satellite's weight would be protective casing (from meteors and the like).

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Well you can discount solar power as it would be reflective at certain angles
From above. Who cares? You might not have noticed, but we see things in the sky from below. Besides, there wouldn't be too much visible anyway.

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Wind power is also unlikely as it could not adjust to turbulence as quickly as you would need since there would be an inefficiency in power transfer.
It could be a combination of both, easy.c
My DE model explained here.
Open to questions, but if you're curious start there rather than expecting me to explain it all from scratch every time.

Re: South Pole
« Reply #88 on: June 11, 2015, 12:23:48 PM »
JRowe - why not make some effort to find the location of a balloon etc.  Then come back and tell us where one is.

I'd need much more information than I currently have: there's quite an area of sky covered by one dish, which a powerful telescope would take ages to cover, likely missing several details: and what would the point be anyway? I couldn't work out any facts about it except "in that general direction," and even if I uploaded a photo you'd insist it was just a regular balloon or airship or whatever. I see no reason to waste time doing something utterly pointless.

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How do you know such a system is possible and able to remain extremely clandestine?
I have explained how it is possible, and people are able to keep secrets: so it is possible. The reason I know it is the case, is that it is a consequence of how I know the world to be.


Then look at the direction of a number, more the better, of dish receivers and note the elevation and azimuth.  You will then be able to calculate the transmitter location

How can the satellite TV industry not know where the satellite transmitters are?

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Offline markjo

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Re: South Pole
« Reply #89 on: June 11, 2015, 12:25:50 PM »
JRowe - why not make some effort to find the location of a balloon etc.  Then come back and tell us where one is.

I'd need much more information than I currently have: there's quite an area of sky covered by one dish...
Incorrect.  Satellite dishes are parabolic and therefore highly directional.  Dishes need to point to within 1 degree of the satellite for best reception.  This greatly narrows down the area of sky that needs to be scanned.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Rama Set

Re: South Pole
« Reply #90 on: June 11, 2015, 12:42:41 PM »
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I have explained how it is possible, and people are able to keep secrets: so it is possible.

It is possible to create Jesus because people can create things. Nice logic.

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The reason I know it is the case, is that it is a consequence of how I know the world to be.

Where in "how you know the world to be" is the part where you can be wrong?


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Offline Hoppy

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Re: South Pole
« Reply #91 on: June 11, 2015, 04:16:40 PM »
JRowe - why not make some effort to find the location of a balloon etc.  Then come back and tell us where one is.
My step father used to work at an army balloon station in Florida keys. According to what they told him about it, it was used to broadcast TV signals to Cuba.  It was a secret place and guarded.
God is real.

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Offline JRowe

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Re: South Pole
« Reply #92 on: June 11, 2015, 04:20:02 PM »
Quote
Then look at the direction of a number, more the better, of dish receivers and note the elevation and azimuth.  You will then be able to calculate the transmitter location

How can the satellite TV industry not know where the satellite transmitters are?
How many times must I repeat the same answer for you to acknowledge and respond to it? This is exactly the reason I left the other site.
We will need to know that the dishes point to the same satellite, and all the satellite industry need to know is direction: there are many points that exist in one direction.
I have said both of these things before.

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Incorrect.  Satellite dishes are parabolic and therefore highly directional.  Dishes need to point to within 1 degree of the satellite for best reception.  This greatly narrows down the area of sky that needs to be scanned.
How much sky do you think is covered by one degree, once you go out to a sufficient distance? 'Narrows down' doesn't mean much.

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Where in "how you know the world to be" is the part where you can be wrong?
Well that's a completely different topic. I have evidence for my theories, it's as simple as that. That evidence would need to be contradicted or overruled for me to be wrong.
My DE model explained here.
Open to questions, but if you're curious start there rather than expecting me to explain it all from scratch every time.

Rama Set

Re: South Pole
« Reply #93 on: June 11, 2015, 05:34:19 PM »
<Cut out complaining>
We will need to know that the dishes point to the same satellite, and all the satellite industry need to know is direction: there are many points that exist in one direction.
I have said both of these things before.

Incorrect.  If you understand how triangulation works then you would know that you can definitively determine the altitude of a transmitter using three different points.

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How much sky do you think is covered by one degree, once you go out to a sufficient distance? 'Narrows down' doesn't mean much.

Using an altitude of 173,000 feet, you get an area of sky equal to 7.2 million ft2.  Using a telescope with 150X optical zoom, means you would need to reposition your telescope 150 times to cover the entire area.  You would obviously want to be thorough, so perhaps you study one area per day.  Even if you go back and check everything twice, you still end up spending approximately 1 year scanning the sky in order to unearth the greatest conspiracy suspected to exist.  What are you waiting for?

FYI, the answer to how many of these transmitters would be needed to cover the the Earth: 762 at the altitude of 173,000 ft.

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I have evidence for my theories, it's as simple as that. That evidence would need to be contradicted or overruled for me to be wrong.

You have no empirical evidence for a clandestine system of intra-atmospheric radio transmitters that perfectly duplicate the operation of a geo-stationary satellite system.  To claim otherwise is profoundly dishonest and somewhat contradictory; if you have evidence of it, with no means of unearthing the conspiracy to speak of, in what way is it clandestine?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 09:29:03 PM by Rama Set »

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Offline markjo

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Re: South Pole
« Reply #94 on: June 11, 2015, 06:22:47 PM »
Quote
Incorrect.  Satellite dishes are parabolic and therefore highly directional.  Dishes need to point to within 1 degree of the satellite for best reception.  This greatly narrows down the area of sky that needs to be scanned.
How much sky do you think is covered by one degree, once you go out to a sufficient distance?
One degree of sky is about twice the angular diameter of the sun or moon.  Wow, such a daunting task for someone committed to finding the truth. ::)
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: South Pole
« Reply #95 on: June 11, 2015, 08:07:57 PM »
Quote
Then look at the direction of a number, more the better, of dish receivers and note the elevation and azimuth.  You will then be able to calculate the transmitter location

How can the satellite TV industry not know where the satellite transmitters are?
How many times must I repeat the same answer for you to acknowledge and respond to it? This is exactly the reason I left the other site.
We will need to know that the dishes point to the same satellite, and all the satellite industry need to know is direction: there are many points that exist in one direction.
I have said both of these things before.

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Incorrect.  Satellite dishes are parabolic and therefore highly directional.  Dishes need to point to within 1 degree of the satellite for best reception.  This greatly narrows down the area of sky that needs to be scanned.
How much sky do you think is covered by one degree, once you go out to a sufficient distance? 'Narrows down' doesn't mean much.

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Where in "how you know the world to be" is the part where you can be wrong?
Well that's a completely different topic. I have evidence for my theories, it's as simple as that. That evidence would need to be contradicted or overruled for me to be wrong.
Please give some examples of the information a satellite installer has.

Re: South Pole
« Reply #96 on: June 15, 2015, 04:31:52 PM »
Quote
Then look at the direction of a number, more the better, of dish receivers and note the elevation and azimuth.  You will then be able to calculate the transmitter location

How can the satellite TV industry not know where the satellite transmitters are?
How many times must I repeat the same answer for you to acknowledge and respond to it? This is exactly the reason I left the other site.
We will need to know that the dishes point to the same satellite, and all the satellite industry need to know is direction: there are many points that exist in one direction.
I have said both of these things before.

Quote
Incorrect.  Satellite dishes are parabolic and therefore highly directional.  Dishes need to point to within 1 degree of the satellite for best reception.  This greatly narrows down the area of sky that needs to be scanned.
How much sky do you think is covered by one degree, once you go out to a sufficient distance? 'Narrows down' doesn't mean much.

Quote
Where in "how you know the world to be" is the part where you can be wrong?
Well that's a completely different topic. I have evidence for my theories, it's as simple as that. That evidence would need to be contradicted or overruled for me to be wrong.
Please give some examples of the information a satellite installer has.
Still waiting.

Re: South Pole
« Reply #97 on: June 17, 2015, 08:05:58 PM »
This thread is so far from the OP topic. However this thread has inspired me to make some basic solid models of a Round earth with satellites (specifically Directv satellites) accurate down to a mile in distances, and .01 Degrees.

I'll use my personal home location as one of the points, and I'll pick 3 other positions around the mainland USA. If someone wants to send me (PM please) your home co'ords I'll include them in my model also (the co'ords will not be visible on the model).

The reason I plan to use my home location is so that I can confirm the actual positioning of my DirecTV dish with the declared position based on the DirecTV literature. If those are the same we can assume other will be consistent.

I will build both models without taking any real world measurements. Then I will measure and compare to see which is more accurate. I suspect it will show the RE model to be consistent with real world conditions and claims, but I will not know until I have completed the modeling and can compare it with real world data. 

I think this model will be useful in illustrating other points as well. 

FE'ers this is your chance to provide me with any data you think should be included in the FE model, as well as any measurements you can provide about DirecTV dishes you might have at home. All I need to know about your position for modeling purposes is your Zip code.

RE'ers this is your chance to provide me with any data you think should be included in the RE model, as well as any measurements you can provide about DirecTV dishes you might have at home. All I need to know about your position for modeling purposes is your Zip code.

I'll probably start another thread once I have the models built so it does not take over this thread.

Thanks to the participants in this thread for inspiring me to some action.

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Offline JRowe

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Re: South Pole
« Reply #98 on: June 19, 2015, 08:32:58 PM »
I've been in hospital, sorry for the slow reply.

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Incorrect.  If you understand how triangulation works then you would know that you can definitively determine the altitude of a transmitter using three different points.
Triangulation only works if you know that what each site points towards is the same thing. I have said this before.

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You have no empirical evidence for a clandestine system of intra-atmospheric radio transmitters that perfectly duplicate the operation of a geo-stationary satellite system.  To claim otherwise is profoundly dishonest and somewhat contradictory; if you have evidence of it, with no means of unearthing the conspiracy to speak of, in what way is it clandestine?
Those would be a consequence of the theory, and not an assumption. There is quite a difference. If space travel is impossible, then satellites do not exist. My evidence is for the fact that space travel is impossible, and it stems from the fundamentals of my theory.

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Please give some examples of the information a satellite installer has.
Did you read? They know the direction that the satellite has to face. If you disagree, please share what else they are required to know, and why.

Back from the hospital, and apparently all I need to do is repeat myself. This is getting as tedious as it was on the other site.
My DE model explained here.
Open to questions, but if you're curious start there rather than expecting me to explain it all from scratch every time.

Rama Set

Re: South Pole
« Reply #99 on: June 20, 2015, 04:56:19 AM »
Triangulation only works if you know that what each site points towards is the same thing. I have said this before.

The thing is you can create an infinite number of required extra transmitters when you assume the dishes are not all receiving from the same point. This is obviously absurd and can be discarded.

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Those would be a consequence of the theory, and not an assumption. There is quite a difference. If space travel is impossible, then satellites do not exist. My evidence is for the fact that space travel is impossible, and it stems from the fundamentals of my theory.

I just reread every post of yours in this thread and you have given zero evidence that space travel is impossible. You have given caveats and objections and, I suppose, assume that they are infallible?  I don't know. But yeah, no empirical evidence.

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Did you read? They know the direction that the satellite has to face. If you disagree, please share what else they are required to know, and why.

Back from the hospital, and apparently all I need to do is repeat myself. This is getting as tedious as it was on the other site.
*yawn*