9401

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 23, 2014, 02:24:40 AM »

I take multi-vitamins everyday because I have a terrible diet.

I wouldn't take multivitamin tablets. Multivitamin tablets are full of binding agents and magnesium stearate, an artificial flow agent used to keep the substances from sticking to the equipment while in processing. I wouldn't put that in my body. Magneseum stearate has been shown to inhibit the body's killer t-cells.

In addition, the majority of the vitamins you find in the stores are not a good quality, and are often derived from synthetically generated substances. Synthetically derived iron and vitamin E have been shown to cause a number of issues if taken long term. The best vitamin supplements are what are called whole foods vitamins.

Read this article: Why Synthetic Supplements Are Terrible And Whole Food Supplements Are Way Better

Tom, are you saying that if I take a handful of these multi-vitamins a day (isntead of just 3) that I'll have perfect health and could potentially live forever? Does Vitamin C counter aging as well? How many vitamins do I have to take per day to become immortal?

You won't live forever, but you will live the full term of your natural life, until your body gets so old and worn with age and shortened telomers that it can't function and repair itself properly and properly use vitamins.

Linus Pauling, megadose vitamin C advocate, died in 1994 from prostate cancer. Mayo Clinic cancer researcher Charles G. Moertel, M.D., critic of Pauling and vitamin C, also died in 1994, and also from cancer (lymphoma). Dr. Moertel was 66 years old. Dr. Pauling was 93 years old. One needs to make up ones own mind as to whether this does or does not indicate benefit from vitamin C.

9402

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 22, 2014, 07:56:25 PM »

The fallacy in that argument is that if these people all had the most perfect diets they wouldn't be sick in the first place.

What?  This is hogwash.  How can you possibly claim this as any sort of fact?

It's absolutely a fact. Diet has a profound effect on the human condition. A good diet is the most important thing you can do for yourself. A good diet is nearly impossible to get these days, what with pesticides on vegetables and antibiotics in meat and eggs, but possible if one is willing to spend the money. Organic fruit and hormone and antibiotic-free food from places like Whole Foods are good. But even then, there are complex vitamins, flavanoids, and enzymes are so fragile that they start coming apart and degrading within minutes of being plucked from the stem, many of which are impossible to synthesize in pill or liquid form.

The absolute best diet is all but impossible for most people today, but it is to eat as naturally has humanly possible: how our ancestors did it. Meat must be fresh. Fruit and vegetables must be eaten from the vine, from the ground, and full of dirt and covered in important soil-based organisms which are also symbiotic to animals. People self-identifying themselves as "healthy" who have done this have reported feeling full of life, clarity, and an overall sense of being in prime health.

There are many reports of people on Curezone who have cured their Type II Diabetes, a condition considered incurable in medicine, by going on an entirely raw diet. There are reports of people who have resolved their Chrons Disease, another incurable condition, through soil-based organisms.

The benefits of megadosing Vitamin C is great and all, but no one should have gotten to that state to need that in the first place. Our immune system was evolved over billions of years to live in a healthy state in symbiosis with a primitive style of life in tune with nature. The closer we can get to that, the healthier we will be.

9403

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 22, 2014, 06:30:33 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

Why is it a fallacy to assume that things natural for the body are better than things unnatural to the body? Is there any artificial food that's better for us than natural food? Is there any drug with no listed long term side effects?

It is very rare for a natural medicine to have a side effect. The main side effects experienced come as a result of being too efficient in killing the disease. Sometimes when megadosing on Vitamin C IVs or other vitamins a particularly sick patient can become nauseous. But that is only because Vitamin C is so extraordinary at ending the life of diseases that it leaves too many dead bodies to filter out of the system. An answer is to ramp up dosage slowly, which most naturopathic physicians do. There are also other things, like Chollera, that one can take to bind to the debris and turn it inert for easier filtering.

Diarrhea with oral Vitamin C isn't really a side effect of the substance, since the body will go diarrhea if it detects an excess of most things natural to it, even strawberries. It's more of a gauging tool. The body knows how much it needs, and will absorb more or less as necessary before reaching bowel tolerance. This is not the case of pharmaceutical drugs alien to it. The body has a hard time filtering something it was not meant to filter, which is why so many people worsen after being on pharmaceuticals for a long period of time.

The difference in side effects is night and day.

9404

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 22, 2014, 06:13:01 AM »

I understand that, but demonstrating that someone who is nutrient deficient benefits from receiving adequate nutrition isn't really shocking. I'm assuming these specific studies show that individuals who are eating proper diets benefit from these supplements.

The fallacy in that argument is that if these people all had the most perfect diets they wouldn't be sick in the first place. Few long time vegetarians have high cholesterol, for example. Many diseases can be helped to some degree by including more fruits and vegetables into your diet (although sometimes a disease has progressed so far that recovery is impossible through a diet adjustment alone)

This is why everyone is always telling you to eat your greens. The reason fruits and vegetables are good for you is that they are filled with vitamins and compounds which are anti-parasite in nature. Plants don't like to have bacteria, fungi and viruses living in them, so they create things which repel them. Herbal medicine is an extension of this, an attempt to find the most potent plants which repel bacteria/fungi/viruses.

Like humans and other animals, plants also have their own "good" bacteria on and in them, which help them out, and which they strive to protect and keep alive. Since animals are in symbiosis with the plants the vitamins and enzymes of a plant tend to help our good bacteria and repel the bad ones. This is why you will sometimes see cats eating grass. They find the most bitter ones they can. It keeps them healthy and disease free.

9405

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 07, 2014, 09:23:08 PM »

Before I read your links Tom. I'd like to make sure that all of these studies are done on people who have had normal levels of vitamin C and had a proper diet before taking these supplements.

The norm in controlled clinical studies are randomized trials. Selecting patients based on a particular diet would bias the study.

9406

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 07, 2014, 06:36:59 PM »

What are the controls on the Vitamin C experiments?  Sources please.  Until I see those, the corroboration can be placed under the correlation != causation category.

The controls at the clinic in the pancreatic cancer video I posted were the rest of the pancreatic cancer patients in the world who have a 1% survival rate through mainstream methods. The clinic need not recruit people to die. Allopathic medicine already does that. Pancreatic cancer is basically a death sentence, and is not something that spontaneously regresses on its own. Since a majority of the pancreatic cancer patients at the clinic who took Vitamin C IVs showed regression, it proved that Vitamin C cured the cancer.

The man who had Stage 4 liver cancer is also controlled by the fact that basically all of the people at Stage 4 die. After being put on Vitamin C IVs he regressed, proving again that Vitamin C cured the cancer.

There are other studies for Vitamin C which do not involve sentencing people to die, which clinics are willing to conduct placebo-controlled. Case controlled studies show that Vitamin C aids in stroke recovery. Controlled studies have shown that Vitamin C reduces the frequency of colds. A controlled study at Berkey study shows that Vitamin C reduces heart disease markers. A study shows that Vitamin C reduces depression. Another study shows that Vitamin C prevents respiratory infections. There are also studies showing that Vitamin C reduces wrinkles and age spots. A placebo-controlled study shows that Vitamin C improves blood pressure.

Vitamin C also:

Reduces fatigue and increases one's desire for physical activity - http://www.fasebj.org/content/28/1_Supplement/828.3
Repairs the lungs of chronic smokers - http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/94/1/6.short
Reduces lead toxicity - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10204833?dopt=Abstract
Improves hypertension - http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/97/22/2222.short
Reduces general mortality - http://journals.lww.com/epidem/Abstract/1992/05000/Vitamin_C_Intake_and_Mortality_among_a_Sample_of.3.aspx
Prevents Coronary Heart Disease - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19674720 & http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10385496?dopt=Abstract
Puts the cancer of mice into remission - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18678913?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1
Inhibits Diabetes - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10840986
Prevents exercise induced Asthma - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23794586
Reduces incidents of Cataracts - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17265171?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=4
Prevents Gout - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19273781?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1
Improves the immune system - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/914459?dopt=Citation

And much more. There are plenty of things that Vitamin C helps with that haven't been studied, and which Naturopathic Physicians treat for. Your ignorance of this vitamin is by design. There is a conspiracy to keep you ignorant about vitamins and natural medicines. The human body is perfectly capable of repairing and curing itself. It simply needs a good supply of the ammunition it already uses.

9407

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 07, 2014, 11:22:01 AM »

Can you rigorously define what 'natural to the body' means? It seems to me like an unfixed goalpost of sorts. Anything you like can be arbitrarily defined as 'natural' while anything you dislike is 'unnatural'. What differentiates your definition from the No True Scotsman Fallacy?

I don't see what is difficult to understand. Humans and their ancestors have breathed air into their lungs for millions of years. Therefore air in the lungs is natural to humans.

Corroboration from multiple unconnected sources constitutes evidence.

So then, Elvis is alive?  Jesus and the Virgin Mary do appear to people all over the world?  Aliens have landed on Earth?

You should rethink your standard of evidence, because it is not as strong as you think it is.

Those stories often are not corroborated. Someone seeing the Virgin Mary appearing to them over a spring cannot be corroborated. However, someone dying of cancer, given months to live, and then being cured after drinking the water from a spring can be corroborated. The story is corroborated by the caretakers, family members, and reporters around them who witness the recovery.

Some of those corroborators are more unconnected than others, such as the reporters who interview the patient, their doctors, and write up their story about the spring.

When multiple events like these happen, it just strengthens the evidence that the spring has some sort of property to it that inhibits or kills disease.

So you believe random people on the interwebs who tell you that vitamin c cures cancer, but you won't believe the space man who tells you that the earth is round?  Got it.

Multiple corroborating reports of the earth being round is evidence. If multiple sources are claiming that experience, with no contradicting evidence, it should be accepted as truth.

However, significant evidence of deception and fraud by the sources can call the claims into question.

9408

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 06, 2014, 04:15:41 PM »

Most pharmaceutical drugs occur in nature. For example, one of the most prominent and well known antibiotics, Penicillin, naturally occurs as a mold.

Penicillin is not natural to the human body.

That depends on how you define "natural to the human body".  One could argue that since the human body does not make or store vitamin C, then it isn't "natural to the human body" either.

The body doesn't need to produce it, for a substance to be natural to it. Why would that be suggested at all? Is water not natural to a fish?

But Tom, this isn't your argument. Your argument is that natural medicine is better, not medicine natural to the body is better.

But that is my argument. When someone says that natural substances are better for the human body, what would make you think they are talking about substances natural to the stars, such as star plasma? Uranium is natural. But clearly, those people aren't talking about uranium.

In such conversations the discussions are about substances natural to the human body.

Western medicine is a concept that encompasses more than just drugs.

Medicine Definition
dictionary.search.yahoo.com
n. noun
- The science and art of diagnosing and treating disease or injury and maintaining health.

Two can play this game, Tom:

med·i·cine
noun \ˈme-də-sən, British usually ˈmed-sən\

: a substance that is used in treating disease or relieving pain and that is usually in the form of a pill or a liquid

Since I'm the one who first used the word medicine in the title of the thread, I'm the one setting the meaning. Maybe you should have asked what I meant. I believe I also mentioned some procedures and lifestyles when talking about natural medicines, such as liver flushing, implying that I'm talking about more than pills and liquids.

9409

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 06, 2014, 03:16:26 PM »

You didn't answer my questions.  You claim that these wells cure diseases.  You said these claims about radioactive springs and vitamin C and all that are "absolutely true."  Can you prove that?  How do you know that these stories are true?  How do you know that they aren't fabrications?

I've seen these people post on the health forums I frequent. There are stories littered all around the internet about these things, from multiple sources. News organizations have reported on this spring over the last 150 years, and Vitamin C over the last 60. Corroboration from multiple unconnected sources constitutes evidence.

Let's talk about Linus Pauling.  Let's also talk about Hoffman-La Roche, the pharmaceutical company that used to dominate the vitamin C market until being convicted of leading a price-fixing cartel in the largest anti-trust case ever decided in the US.  Guess what?  They funded and reviewed Pauling work.  Whoops.

So what? They may have thought that there was a chance that Vitamin C would become a standard treatment at the time and their domination of the Vitamin C market would become extremely valuable. That's good on them for supporting a natural substance.

http://scienceblogs.com/seed/2006/04/10/science-marches-on-over-linus/

The real trouble started when other researchers tried–and failed–to replicate his results. Despite exhaustive examination, today the efficacy of vitamin C as a cold and flu treatment remains questionable. Three successive studies by the prestigious Mayo Clinic testing orally administered vitamin C demonstrated no significant cancer-fighting effects. Additionally, it was revealed that Hoffman-La Roche, a company that at the time produced most of the world’s vitamin C supplements, extensively funded Pauling’s Institute.

The Mayo clinic used low oral doses in an attempt to refute Pauling's work, when the work clearly called for high dose Intravenous Vitamin C.

See this article: Vitamin C, Linus Pauling was right all along. A doctor's opinion

Pauling had performed a series of trials with Dr Ewan Cameron, a Scottish cancer specialist, showing that intravenous vitamin C allowed cancer patients to live much longer than expected. Numerous other studies confirmed this effect, particularly the work of Dr Abram Hoffer and Dr Hugh Riordan. The Mayo Clinic tried to refute this research but failed, as they used low, oral doses, making their results invalid. In their own cancer paper, the NIH researchers claimed that Pauling and Cameron's use of the IV route was "serendipitous", implying that Pauling did not know the difference between injected and oral doses. In fact, Pauling had written explicitly about this difference, so the NIH criticism was misplaced.

The study was paid for by Bayer, though, so nbd.  They're not a giant of big pharma or anything.

I wasn't saying that China is an authority on vitamin C.  I was saying that if you're taking it, then you bought it from big pharma.  There's a reason for that.  You think you're abandoning traditional medicine for naturalist medicine.  You aren't.  You're just buying a different big pharma product, researched and marketed by convicted frauds.[/list]

There's nothing wrong with buying natural substances from a pharmaceutical company running a supplement company on the side. Good on them. They need to refrain from fixing prices, however, and move more towards healthier natural solutions.

9410

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 06, 2014, 12:10:04 AM »

Most pharmaceutical drugs occur in nature. For example, one of the most prominent and well known antibiotics, Penicillin, naturally occurs as a mold.

Penicillin is not natural to the human body.

Please recall:

"The arguments like 'Not everything that's natural is good for you. Rattlesnake poison is natural!' fall flat because what is meant when you hear that natural substances are better for you is that substances natural to the human body are better for you. Not star plasma, clearly. The body recognizes things like vitamins and plants and knows how to process them."

Gallbladder removal surgery is unnatural.

That's not a type of medicine, Tom.

Western medicine is a concept that encompasses more than just drugs.

Medicine Definition
dictionary.search.yahoo.com
n. noun
- The science and art of diagnosing and treating disease or injury and maintaining health.

9411

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 05, 2014, 11:41:06 PM »

What sort of medicine do you consider to be unnatural, Tom?

Pharmaceutical drugs are unnatural. Chemotherapy is unnatural. Gallbladder removal surgery is unnatural. Basically everything a regular physcian does to teat disease is unnatural.

My Naturopathic Physician cures far more people of cancer with his Vitamin C IVs than a radiologist does, presuming his patients follow directions. He cures chronic conditions which are considered incurable in allopathic medicine. I would bet my life on it, as well as my family's.

9412

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 05, 2014, 11:07:35 PM »

Tom, you had a bunch of parasites or something trying to kill you a short while ago. Why were you so ill for so long when all you needed was a bit of Vitamin C?

I did just need a bit of Vitamin C for my condition. It took me a while to discover that my doctor was a fraudulent health practitioner and a shill of the pharmaceutical companies. That's why I'm here telling people about natural remedies like Vitamin C now. When you take a large amount of Vitamin C, especially Lipospheric Vitamin C or a Vitamin C IV, you can feel it get to work immediately. Whatever pains you have in your body literally melt away, and you become incredibly clear of mind. If the disease has been beating down on your energy levels, Vitamin C will bring a boost of energy unlike anything you've felt before. You feel as if you can run a marathon, and jump from jump roof top to roof top, that nothing can stop you.

Vitamin C isn't everything, admittedly. I also discovered MSM, an organic sulfur contained in brocolli and other vegetables, which aids in general detoxification. Parasites and bad microorganisms thrive in a toxic, acidic environment. This is often why the sickly complain of inflamed and aching bodies. The diseases have turned your body into an environment more of its liking. MSM is a natural compound the body uses to strip away acid, normalize pH, coat surfaces with a compound hostile to parasites, and make cells throughout the body more permeable for other substances like Vitamin C to come into the cells to do its business. It makes it less likely that the diseases will return and regrow.

All of this helped me where $30,000 in exploring traditional medicine did not. Natural medicine truly is incredible.

9413

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 05, 2014, 09:36:25 PM »

Also, the link you posted from the Vitamin C Foundation is actually a manufacturer called the  "Inteligent Vitamin C Store". Supplement companies are not the authority on Vitamin C. The closest actual foundation is the Linus Pauling Institute, a non-profit research institution. They don't sell products.

Aside from the duplicity of using the name of Vitamin C Foundation and portraying itself as some official organization, the amount of Liposomal Vitamin C on that website is well worth $50. Liposomal Vitamin C is not regular absorbic acid. It's a new form of Vitamin C, bonded to Lecithin, which is much better absorbed into the bloodstream, and more effective. It's an alternative to Intravenous Vitamin C therapy, which can get costly.

9414

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 05, 2014, 09:30:57 PM »

The RDA for Vitamin C is what a normal, healthy person needs for continued everyday survival. Eating an orange is fine, if you're healthy.

But when the body is sick and under a lot of stress, the RDA doesn't cut it. The amount of Vitamin C required rises dramatically.

Read this study by Dr. Cathcart:

http://www.doctoryourself.com/cathcart_thirdface.html

The Third Face of Vitamin C
Robert F. Cathcart, M.D.
Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, 7:4;197-200, 1993.

ABSTRACT
Bowel tolerance to orally ingested ascorbic acid increases with the toxicity of diseases. Bowel tolerance with a disease such as mononucleosis may reach 200 or more grams per 24 hours without it producing diarrhea. A marked clinical amelioration or cure is achieved in many disease processes when threshold doses near bowel tolerance are given. In a sense, it is the reducing equivalents carried by free radical scavengers that quench free radicals, not the free radical scavengers themselves. Ascorbic acid can be dramatically useful in quenching free radicals because it is usually tolerated in amounts necessary to provide the reducing equivalents necessary to quench almost all the free radicals generated by severe disease processes. Vitamin C functions are incidental at these dose levels; the benefit is from the reducing equivalents carried. To the extent that free radicals are either essential to the perpetuation of a disease or just part of the cause of symptoms, the disease will be cured or just ameliorated. These effects are even more dramatic from intravenous sodium ascorbate.

...

Secondly, the claim that absorbic acid causes kidney stones is a scare. It really only happens under rare and special circumstances.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/klennerpaper.html

How concerned should we be about oxalic acid and kidney stones? A technical explanation.

One of the "scare" weapons used by the critics on high daily doses of ascorbic acid is the oxalic acid-kidney stone hypothesis. Meakins[36] states that the chief factors in the formation of renal calculi are perversions of metabolic processes, infection and stasis in the urinary tract. There are two schools of thought on stone formation: 1) That there is a central nucleus of colloids on which the crystalloids are precipitated; 2) That the crystalloids are deposited from the urine in which they are present in concentrated solution, in which salt and hydrogen ion concentrations are important factors. In all cases stasis and a concentrated urine appear to be the chief physiological factors. The only way that oxalic acid can be produced from ascorbic acid is through splitting of the lactone ring. This happens above pH5. The reaction of urine when 10 grams of vitamin C is taken daily is usually pH6. Oxalic acid precipitates out of solution only from a neutral or alkaline solution-pH7 to pH10. Kelli and Zilva[37] reported that "Nutrition experiments showed that dehydroascorbic acid is protected in vivo from rapid transformation to the antiscorbutically impotent diketogulonic acid from which oxalic acid is derived." Values reported in the literature for normal 24 hour urinary oxalate excretions for humans range from 14 mg to 56 mg. Lamden et al.[38] found in a group of volunteers that the ingestion of 9 grams ascorbic acid daily resulted in oxalate spills as high as 68 mg for 24 hours and in the controls without extra vitamin C the high was 64 mg for a 24 hour period.

These critics have overlooked the individual with diabetes mellitus. The amount of oxalic acid found in the diabetic patient approximates that found in the urine of a normal person taking 10 grams vitamin C each day. With the diabetic we find a paradox. Give this individual 10 grams ascorbic acid daily, by mouth, and the urinary oxalate excretion remains relatively unchanged. Diabetics are known for their diuresis. The individual who takes 10 or more grams of vitamin C each day will find that this organic compound is an excellent diuretic. No urinary stasis; no urine concentration.

The ascorbic acid kidney stone story is a myth. Methylene blue will dissolve calcium oxalate stones giving 65 mg orally 2 to 3 times a day. (Dr. M. J. Vernon Smith: Med. World News, Dec. 4, 1970)

9415

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 05, 2014, 08:40:58 PM »

The vitamin industry is owned and operated by proven frauds and liars: http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/press_releases/1999/2450.htm

A Swiss pharmaceutical giant, F. Hoffmann-La Roche Ltd today agreed to plead guilty and pay a record $500 million criminal fine for leading a worldwide conspiracy to raise and fix prices and allocate market shares for certain vitamins sold in the United States and elsewhere, the Department of Justice announced. A German firm, BASF Aktiengesellschaft, also will plead guilty and pay a $225 million fine for its role in the same antitrust conspiracy, the Department said.
[...]
According to the charges, Hoffmann-La Roche and BASF agreed with the world's other major vitamin manufacturers to suppress and eliminate competition in the U.S. and elsewhere. The criminal cases charge that Hoffmann-La Roche, BASF, and Sommer, with unnamed co-conspirators:

Agreed to fix and raise prices on Vitamins A, B2, B5, C, E, Beta Carotene and vitamin premixes;
Agreed to allocate the volume of sales and market shares of such vitamins;
Agreed to divide contracts to supply vitamin premixes to customers in the U.S. by rigging the bids for those contracts; and,
Participated in meetings and conversations to monitor and enforce adherence to the agreed-upon prices and market shares.

Oh look, more vita-frauds admitting to price-fixing.  These people are proven liars and cannot be trusted: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324392804578360762865474642

On Thursday, after less than a day of deliberations, it found Hebei Welcome Pharmaceutical Co. and affiliated company North China Pharmaceutical Group Corp. liable for fixing prices on vitamin C for several years[...]The vitamin C makers generally didn't dispute that they acted together to set prices.

Wake up, vitamin shrill.  The vitamin C you're buying was industrially produced by Big Pharma.  You're buying it from proven frauds and liars: http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2003732744_vitamins03.html

If you pop a vitamin C tablet in your mouth, it's a good bet it came from China. Indeed, many of the world's vitamins are now made in China.

In less than a decade, China has captured 90 percent of the U.S. market for vitamin C, driving almost everyone else out of business.

Chinese pharmaceutical companies also have taken over much of the world market in the production of antibiotics, analgesics, enzymes and primary amino acids. According to an industry group, China makes 70 percent of the world's penicillin, 50 percent of its aspirin and 35 percent of its acetaminophen (often sold under the brand name Tylenol), as well as the bulk of vitamins A, B12, C and E.

Oh, you get your vitamin C from Europe?  Don't worry, DSM isn't a member of Big Pharma, and they have absolutely no connections to any of the liars and frauds in China: http://www.dsm.com/corporate/media/informationcenter-news/2014/07/27-14-dsm-to-acquire-aland-china.html

Royal DSM, the global Life Sciences and Materials Sciences company, announces today it has reached agreement to acquire Aland (HK) Holding Limited (“Aland”), a Hong Kong-based company producing vitamin C in mainland China[...]Acquiring Aland, one of the leading Vitamin C manufacturers in China, allows DSM to further strengthen its position in vitamin C. Aland increases DSM’s global footprint in vitamins for Human Nutrition & Health, Animal Nutrition & Health and Personal Care.

Big Pharma has two goals in the alternative medicine market: capture lost market share, and sell GMO corn (used for industrial vitamin C production).  They stand to gain the most by using vitamins to make you sick and get you back into traditional medicine.  That's why all of these vitamins are produced and sold by Big Pharma.  These are inescapable facts.

Means, opportunity, and multi-billion dollar motivation to deceive?  Check.
Proven track record of deception, lies, and fraud?  Check.
Proven material connections between all of these fraudulent actors? Check, check, and check.

Chinese pharmaceutical companies are not the authority on Vitamin C. The authorities on Vitamin C are the people who are writing the books and conducting studies. Vitamin C was first popularized by a Chemist named Linus Pauling, a Nobel Prize winner, who published books and studies on the benefits of Vitamin C, bringing the benefits into the public eye, campaigning for over 30 years for the substance to be recognized as a medical treatment.

9416

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 05, 2014, 08:21:25 PM »

How do you know those stories to be absolutely true?  Because you read them on the internet?  Those stories could easily be fabrications.  Which sounds simpler to you: that springs with magical healing properties are being completely overlooked by virtually everyone on the planet because doctors are somehow hiding them (although not very well, apparently); or, that these stories were fabricated by an industry with the means, opportunity, and billion-dollar motive to do so?

Radiation isn't a magical healing property. Radiation is toxic to microscopic organisms. It is used in Chemotherapy to treat cancer. The area around Chernobyl is interesting in that the forests are not decaying properly due to radiation in the area. Microscopic organisms can't live there.

Radiation is also damaging to humans, to a lesser degree. The trick is to kill the disease before the host. Treating yourself with radiation isn't really something I advise, and not really what is meant by natural in these discussions. Radiation is natural in nature, but not natural to humans like Vitamin C, iodine, lemon juice, various herbs like Oregano Oil, Coconut Oil, Cats Claw, Tumeric, etc, are.

The arguments like "Not everything that's natural is good for you. Rattlesnake poison is natural!" fall flat because what is meant when you hear that natural substances are better for you is that substances natural to the human body are better for you. Not star plasma, clearly. The body recognizes things like vitamins and plants and knows how to process them.

But, the stories of people curing themselves with radioactive water are generally true nonetheless. Water form radioactive springs was popular 100 years ago, and touted to cure disease. There is water which flows from a spring in the Grotto of Massabielle in the Sanctuary of Our Lady of Lourdes, France, a historical site where thousands of people have traveled in search of a cure since the 1800's, and still do today. The internet is littered with stories about Lourdes. It's also a topic of discussion on forums like curezone.com and others, where people claim to have seen benefit. It's a historical miracle spot maintained by the Vatican, which maintains a hospital near the spring to accommodate visitors in search of a cure.

When radiation was first discovered, it was quickly realized that the holy water from these springs was irradiated.

http://www.radiation-hormesis.com/

The major scientists working on radiation during the 1800s and early 1900s had already shown that low level radioactivity was beneficial for living things.  Plants and animals grew bigger, reproduced better, had fewer cancers and infectious diseases and had a longer lifespan

...

J. J. Thompson, discoverer of the electron, found radioactivity in well water in 1903.   Within a year scientists throughout the world discovered that all famous healing hot springs such as Lourdes in France or Bath in the UK were radioactive.

9417

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 02, 2014, 02:32:18 AM »

This idea that Vitamin C cures all sounds an awful lot like the phosphorus tonic that Dr. Birley used to push back in the day.

I see no reason to believe that phosphorous cannot cure a disease.

As I recall, Dr. Birley's claimed that phosphorous could cure pretty much every disease.  In fact, countless snake oil salesmen pushed patent medicines that were hailed as cures for whatever ails you.  Why should anyone trust your claims of vitamin c's almost magical curative abilities when there have been countless testimonials for these earlier cure-alls?

As I said, there are a lot of things that can kill microscopic organisms like bacteria, fungus, and viruses. Magnets can. Radiation can. Colloidal Silver can. Iodine can. Lemon juice can - Lemon juice fasting is a thing. It's not really that hard to find something that can kill a disease. There are lots of things in nature that kill microscopic organisms. Some of those things in nature also fall under a natural human food source, which makes them safe for the body and dangerous for the disease.

Unfortunately nature cannot be patented. What is hard is to make a totally synthetic substance that can kill a disease, yet is safe for the host. Most synthetic substances are poisonous to both the host and disease. This is why many drugs have a list of possible side effects as long as your arm. It's poisoning both your body you and your disease. In order to make a profit, the medical industry must promote these types of substances. The profession seeks keep people stupid and uneducated about such things. The public is brainwashed into thinking that the doctor is the harbinger of all medical knowledge, when that is the furthest from the truth.

Doctors only provide solutions which involve filling you up with dangerous drugs and putting you through costly surgeries. They do not care to cleanse, detoxify, provide safe natural remedies, and educate patients on a healthy diet and lifestyle to avoid disease. That is not the business they're running.

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Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 02, 2014, 02:00:00 AM »

It seems that the colloidal silver cartel is just as greedy as big pharma:

Yes, that's right. It costs them about five cents to make four ounces worth of colloidal silver, yet greedy colloidal silver vendors charge you anywhere from $29 to $59 for that same tiny amount!

That's a whopping 60,000% mark-up on every bottle sold. No other nutritional supplement on earth is so cheap to make, yet so expensive to buy.

The colloidal silver generators on the market which can make colloidal silver for pennies makes the old kind of colloidal silver which can make your skin blue. Most modern colloidal silver brands nave nano-sized particles and is worth the money if you intend on mega-dosing on the substance.

9419

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 02, 2014, 01:56:25 AM »

Yeah, Tomothy - you're making it sound like nature was generous enough to provide every human with the means to defeat every ailment given that they supplement their bodies with enough vitamins. That simply isn't true. The body can always fight back in some way, but in some cases it's simply impossible for it to win.

Since the body always fights diseases in some way, as you claim, then it makes sense that if you can identify the ammunition the body uses to fight disease, which there would be a shortage of in a crisis, the body's disease-fighting capabilities can be enhanced.

Or whether you can even get enough Vitamin to significantly impact a serious disease, or whether Vitamin C even does what you claim it does.  We don't know do we?  Your reliance on anecdotes is not doing any favors either.

People have been cured of cancer. I've shown a video of a doctor who states that pancreatic cancer patients in his clinic who had a 1% survival rate were cured. Maybe they were actually cured by the yoga they've been doing in their spare time?

Here is a man who was told by his doctors to go home and die. He was at Stage 4 and given a death sentence. After being put on Vitamin C IVs he recovered.

Incorrect.  Dengue Fever tricks the immune system.  It is well studied and understood.  (inb4bigpharmaisbehindthelies)

http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/host-response-to-the-dengue-virus-22402106

That article does not state that the virus tricks the immune system into believing that it is not an infection. It clearly states that the immune system recognizes it as an infection:

How the Immune System Defeats the Dengue Virus
How can the body recover from a dengue infection? Although the dengue virus has tricked the immune system to infect cells and spread throughout the body, the immune system has additional defenses to fight the virus. The infected cells produce and release small proteins called interferons that are part of a large group of proteins called cytokines. Interferons have the ability to interfere with viral replication, and they activate both the innate and adaptive immune system defenses. They help the immune system recognize dengue-infected cells and help protect uninfected cells from infection. As the immune system fights the dengue infection, the person experiences a fever.

9420

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Natural Medicine is better than Unnatural Medicine

« on: October 02, 2014, 01:43:01 AM »

The healing properties of colloidal silver have never been documented in any reputable medical journal. Ever. The beneficial effects of silver, if there are any, are not known. In 1915 there was an article about the concoction being able to treat tumors, but even that is unconfirmed.  Regardless of what you say, argyria has been reported recently, although it is not common. It is just a cosmetic side-effect, but there are other more serious side-effects associated with colloidal silver: like seizures and kidney failure.

Once again, the risks outweigh the reward.

Also, the FDA proposed to ban the use of colloidal silver or silver salts in over-the-counter products in October 1996 because of these reasons and others.

That's funny. A simple google search of "collidial silver studies" shows that there are plenty of studies. At the bottom of this article we see references to studies from universities showing that Collidial Silver can treat deadly antibiotic-resistant MSRA infections.

If you have have questions about the FDA ban on colloidal silver, here's a great reference from the FDA themselves...

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/98fr/081799a.txt

Here's a direct quote:

"The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is issuing a final rule establishing that all over-the-counter (OTC) drug products containing colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts for internal or external use are not generally recognized as safe and effective and are misbranded. FDA is issuing this final rule because many OTC drug products containing colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts are being marketed for numerous serious disease conditions and FDA is not aware of any substantial scientific evidence that supports the use of OTC colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts for these disease conditions."


What do you think about this, Tom?

That the FDA means is that no modern studies have been published in the big pharmaceutical research journals. That is because, surprise surprise, pharmaceutical research is funded by the pharmaceutical companies. Conducting research on a substance that serves no profit, and results only in competition to their existing products would not get out of the gate.

See: http://www.thesilveredge.com/before1940.shtml#.VCysefldU1I

Medical bureaucrats and other colloidal silver naysayers routinely claim that the modern-day use of colloidal silver constitutes “risk without benefit.”

They go on to claim ad nauseum that there’s no modern medical or scientific evidence for the efficacy of colloidal silver.

What They Omit

What the naysayers always fail to state is that there’s a very good reason for the dearth of modern medical and scientific research on behalf of colloidal silver:

The medical community has simply refused to conduct any significant new large-scale research on colloidal silver since the first patented antibiotic drug (penicillin) came into widespread medical usage in 1940.

In fact, since the advent of prescription antibiotic drugs, the medical community has not conducted any significant medical research on any natural substances with infection-fighting qualities, except for those they could synthesize and turn into patentable drugs.

The bottom of that article lists some older studies which have appeared in reputable research journals.