[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I said the last 300 years, not the last 1000. No one, not even me, disputes that Islam at one time had some level of relevance in the  world. We probably could have done without it, but admittedly, it would have taken longer for us to achieve the things we did. I never argued that.

[DuckDodgers]

When I said the world needs no single group of people to continue, I was talking about today, not as if Jews never existed.  One could make an argument that without religion we would be a more peaceful species, see Jews and Muslims blowing each other up for an example.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Well, lets see, as I said, the Jews gave us the Old Testament, the Polio vaccine, 22% of all the Nobel Prizes (which isn't bad, since they make up .02% of the population of the world), etc. Most of what Gentiles watch on TV and in the cinema was created by Jews (Seinfeld, anyone?, Star Trek [both Shatner and Nimoy are Jews], and God knows what else, much of which is good, and much of which admittedly isn't),  pretty much the entire psychiatric profession, and quite a few other things. The banking system, oddly enough, was NOT. Although Jews are widely seen as money lenders, that was a profession forced on them by Christians, who made it illegal for Jews to work in any others when dealing with non-Jews. Jews could only buy, sell, and repair appliances and the like, and lend money. After 500 years of it, they did get good at it. There are, of course, well known Jewish bankers, and Jewish financiers. That does come from this. However, MOST of the banking system in the USA is in Gentile hands, despite what misguided persons want to believe.

What is the Muslim World. It is that part of the Word that is predominantly Muslim. That should NOT be too hard to figure out. The Jewish World doesn't exist except for Israel, which is the only majority Jewish nation IN the world. The Christian world, also called the Western World, is obvious as well.

Duck, you can make that argument all you want, until the entire human race has been fed to the dogs. The fact is that if humans didn't fight about religion, they would fight about something else. In fact, Jews and Muslims are not, and NEVER have, fought about religion, really. Its mostly about money, power, and pussy. These are the three things men (as in males of the species) want more than anything else. They may use religion as a motive force to get them, but that is what they want. Religion is a cover. Or Nationalism. Or Capitalism. Or Communism. Or Whateverism. In fact, Judaism is one of the few religions that tries to tame the inherant desire for all three. I don't have the time to get into it here, but Judaism tries through its Mitzvot to tame men's (and women's) lusts for things such as money, power, and pussy through disciplinary methods that are far more efficient than any other religion I've ever studied, and I can fairly say I've studied just about all the major ones. You and I can have that conversation if you like, but NOT here. Send me a private message if you so desire. I am not about to get into that in a public forum.

[Rama Set]

Apparently it cannot blunt their desire for bloodshed.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

RAMA, that was just a stupid response. No one desires bloodshed. But Jews do desire to keep their own blood from being shed. And lets face it: If the choice comes down to dying for your country or making the other poor bastard die for his (non)country (in the case of the "Palestinians"),  any sane person will choose the latter. And we've already discussed the need to fight a conventional war, rather than try to send in the Mossad to take out 10 rocket launchers that can be replaced in 15 minutes. So don't go there.

[markjo]

Yaakov, would it be safe to say that you've never been a member of anyone's military?  If so, then that would explain an awful lot.

[beardo]

How much must a jew jew in order to jew jew jew?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

MARK, I don't know how that is relevant. I do understand human psychology whether I have or have not been in a military force. I agree that it is not easy to find someone who is willing to shoot another person in the head. On the other hand, it isn't hard, either. It just is. I'm not going to answer the question, because I don't think it needs answering. I may have been, I may not have been. It doesn't change the fundamentals of my thinking.

BEARDO, any more of that shit, and I report it to the moderators. I can handle a lot, but outright anti-semitic shit you can keep to your own f-----g self.

[beardo]

Are all jews completely devoid of a sense of humour, or is it just you?

[Lemon]

Do you consider Jew converts to be real Jews?

How do you feel about Noahides?

Thought I might as well as you these questions.

[Rama Set]

MARK, I don't know how that is relevant. I do understand human psychology whether I have or have not been in a military force. I agree that it is not easy to find someone who is willing to shoot another person in the head. On the other hand, it isn't hard, either. It just is. I'm not going to answer the question, because I don't think it needs answering. I may have been, I may not have been. It doesn't change the fundamentals of my thinking.

You obviously did not serve, at least in wartime, because everyone I know who has have been profoundly changed by the experience.

BEARDO, any more of that shit, and I report it to the moderators. I can handle a lot, but outright anti-semitic shit you can keep to your own f-----g self.

That was not anti anything, it was absurd. Relax man.

[Blanko]

BEARDO, any more of that shit, and I report it to the moderators. I can handle a lot, but outright anti-semitic shit you can keep to your own f-----g self.

Anti-semitism is not against the rules.

[Ghost of V]

VAUXHALL, of course dinosaurs existed. The story of Creation, while accurate in its own way, was NOT intended to be scientific. The first 11 chapters of Genesis (at least in my opinion, and in the opinion of many scholarly persons, both Jewish and Christian) can be taken as Pre-history, legendary material. Although some of it may be literally true, a lot of it is clearly legendary material that is similar to other stuff you find in narrative stories throughout the Middle East.

I know the Rabbis of Blessed Memory had a way to adjust for the existence of dinosaurs, but I'd have to look it up to find out what it was, and those books are still packed. However, there WAS an explanation given to explain how the dinosaurs did indeed exist before Adam and Eve existed. I'll see what I can find. I am feeling better, but now my wife is ill, and I must tend to her, and continue to care for my own self to make sure we both get totally well. But in between that, I will TRY to learn more about the matter.

And again, I don't know WHY God does or does NOT appear to non-Jews. I do have an idea why he no longer appears to us, as I explained. And who knows, maybe, just maybe, he will deem it appropriate to return the prophecy to Israel.

There is certainty that at some time in the future, things WILL happen that involve Israel and the Jews. The return of the Jews to Israel, the Coming of Messiah (no, not Jesus, or any other god), the rebuilding of the Temple, the Battle of Armageddon, the bringing about of World Peace, etc, all have been foretold in our Scriptures. It WILL happen. Its merely a question of when.

So in that sense, you can say that the prophecy WILL return to Israel. Its just a matter of when.

Are you saying that humans existed before dinos? That's a pretty ground breaking discovery, if true. However, there is no evidence to suggest that humans predate dinosaurs, or that humans and dinosaurs lived together. I would like to see this dinosaur explanation that the Rabbis of Blessed Memory provide, so if you can find it that would be great.

Also, the Old Testament predicts the coming of a Messiah... yet you don't think it's Jesus. Why not? It seems like Jesus fits the description you've provided pretty well.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

QUOTE: "Do you consider Jew converts to be real Jews? How do you feel about Noahides? Thought I might as well as you these questions."

LEMON, of course converts are real Jews! David's grandmother Ruth was a convert. A convert is to be treated as no different than any other Jew. A Jew by Choice in many ways is more courageous than a Jew by Birth. Noahides are certainly admirable persons. They are not Jews, as they have never sought to be. They worship in Synagogues, but they are welcome to have a ham sandwich afterword for lunch. Jewish Law ONLY applies to Jews. It does not apply to non-Jews, even Righteous Ones, such as Noahides, or other Righteous Among the Nations.


QUOTE: "Are you saying that humans existed before dinos? That's a pretty ground breaking discovery, if true. However, there is no evidence to suggest that humans predate dinosaurs, or that humans and dinosaurs lived together. I would like to see this dinosaur explanation that the Rabbis of Blessed Memory provide, so if you can find it that would be great.

Also, the Old Testament predicts the coming of a Messiah... yet you don't think it's Jesus. Why not? It seems like Jesus fits the description you've provided pretty well."

I would suggest to you that anyone who believes that humans predated dinosaurs, or even co-existed with them, should probably take a Seventh Grade Science course. If their belief persists thereafter, then they should probably seek an appointment with a psychiatrist.

The first 11 chapters of Genesis are NOT a science book. They seek to explain through story and imagery how humans came to be and how we came to understand God. Most of those chapters, while POSSIBLY having a grain of truth in them (like the Flood, which has similar stories throughout the world, and can therefore be taken as possibly true) are intended to tell a story,

I have heard other arguments, of course. One argument goes that the "days of Creation" were not literal 24 hour days but could have been eons of time. Thus, each "day" could account for whole ages of existence, in which the animal kingdoms had their lives and deaths, starting with primordial ooze, moving through the waters, then the amphibian types, then the reptiles, including dinosaurs, then the mammals, then us (the highest form of mammal). Its a possibility.

I don't claim to know all the answers. If I knew all that, I would be God, which I most manifestly am not! I'll see what I can find on the Rabbis, but it may take some time, as I am still unpacking.

Regarding the Messiah, actually, Jesus doesn't fit the definition at all. The Messiah shall come, born of two human parents (not a virgin birth to a mother and God). He shall be a descendant of King David (which Jesus likely was, I'll grant, but ascent to the Throne of David goes through the father's line, NOT the mother's, so if Jesus had no human father, then he cannot ascend the Throne of David, and adoption does not count according to Jewish Law). He shall bring about world peace (which Jesus did not do). He shall either rebuild the Temple, or dedicate a newly built one (the Temple was destroyed after his death). He shall re-establish the Davidic Kingdom of Israel (in 70 CE, the Romans defeated the Jews in the last of the Roman-Jewish Wars and exiled most but not all of them from the Land) and restore all Jews to the Land (see above). I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

[Lord Dave]

As I said, the world needs Jews just to have a convenient whipping boy, if nothing else. But I'll give you one thing that ALL of Western Civilisation depends upon. Hell, for that matter, so do the Muslims, even if they hate to admit it. Without it, none of you would be where you are today. So, let me grant that you could invent everything you have without our help (which I doubt, but for the sake of argument, fine). There is one thing you could not have created. The Jewish Bible (the Old Testament to you Christian influenced types). Without that, your entire worldview falls apart.

Without the Hebrew Bible, you would only have Greek philosophy, which in and of itself is not enough to keep a civilisation of any sort afloat long term. The fact is, they denigrated women and promoted homosexuality as ideal. That alone was a fatal fault that would have (eventually) destroyed their way of life. The Greeks were fine philosophers, and great artists, and so-forth, but their morality was in the toilet.

The pagan Germanics and Norse could not have welded themselves into a unified force without the fiction of "the Holy Roman Nation" and all that, which harks back to Roman Empire, which itself was Christianised, which religion came from guess what, Judaism!

Fundamentally, without Judaism as a motive force, Western Civilisation (and the Muslims as well, but that is a different conversation) breaks down. This is a fact that simply cannot be denied. Welcome to real life.

Sorry, but did you just admit that Jews are responsible for a good portion of the horrible things in the world?  Including the very Muslims that hate them?

Also:
1,000 years seems to be a pretty good time for a civilization.

And the Roman Empire was doing pretty good without Christianity.  In fact, Christianity of the Roman Empire accounts for the destruction of multiple cultures and some very unpleasant things being done to people.

Finally:
My world view operates just fine without the Jewish Bible or Christian values.  In fact, most civilizations went along just fine without Christianity, Jeudaism, or Islam.  They fell apart when the gold seeking conqueror of Christianity (thanks Jews) wiped them off the map.

I mean, you call upon the Greeks as morally terrible but your only evidence seems to be their acceptance of homosexuality.  I personally consider a religion that gains political power and uses that power to get money for the sake of greed, torture people for the sake of power, and conquer of less technologically developed cultures for the sake of both.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I would suggest to you that the Arabs do not hate the Jews because the Arabs are Muslim and we are religiously otherwise. I would suggest that that hatred goes back to Abraham's two sons, Isaac (the Son of the Promise, and father of the Jewish People), and Ishmael (the father of the Arab People). THAT is how far back you need to look, NOT to Mohammed.

And I never said I hated Christianity. Sure, it was pretty brutal to us, but it has since grown out of most of that crap. EVERYBODY has been brutal to us at one point or other, whether they descended from us religiously or not. The Greeks were, the Romans were, the Muslims were and are, The Christians were, and rarely still are, I could go on...

About Islam. It is descended spiritually from Judaism if you read the Qur'an. You can tell that the book is a rip-off of the the Old and New Testaments, as well as apocryphal beliefs coming from both Jewish and Christian traditions. Mohammed was and was not an idiot. he incorporated a lot of raw material into the Qur'an, but got a lot of the beliefs wrong in the process. For example, his concept of the Christian Trinity is totally nonsense. I remember that when I read it, vs how it is actually taught in the Church of England, I couldn't believe it was the same idea. I don't agree with the Trinitarian belief, of course, but if you are going to reject a belief, at LEAST get what your rejecting right for heaven's sake!

As far as conquering people for the sake of power, and the like, I agree, Christianity did that. But so did Alexander the Great. He was culturally Greek. It was under his successors that one of the three began to persecute us, ultimately bringing about the Maccabees and their rebellion, and the story of Hanukah. So don't tell me the Greeks couldn't do it. They could and did. And probably would have continued if they had not been stopped by us, and by later forces putting their empire to an end (ie, the Romans, and so-forth).

Lets face it, man. Men (as in males) want three things: money, power, and pussy.They will use whatever they have as an excuse to get those three things, whether its Nationalism, Capitalism, Communism, Religion (be it Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or etc), or Whateverism. In fact, Judaism is the one religion out of all the ones I've studied (and I've studied most of the major world religions in pretty thorough detail), that does a fairly good job of instilling a control over the desire for these three things (money, power, and pussy) by disciplinary techniques that doesn't take away one's proper use of them, but does discourage their IMPROPER use. Other religions don't seem to do as well regulating that, in my mind. They either allow libertinism or encourage total repression of the urges.

So, no, I don't think Judaism created the things I hate. Judaism had it right. Things that came out of Judaism would have been fine if they had maintained the broadness of mind that the Rabbis of Blessed Memory always had in understanding humans and the world around us. With Jews, you get the real deal. We don't play. Christianity is like margarine vs real butter, and Islam barely even counts as religion, in my mind. But take this info and do what you like.

[Lord Dave]

I will take this information and choose to strongly dislike Jews.  I will only like those Jews who I get to know and like on a personal level, but until then, I dislike all Jews.

You have made one more enemy today.  Congrats.

[Blanko]

I will take this information and choose to strongly dislike Jews.  I will only like those Jews who I get to know and like on a personal level, but until then, I dislike all Jews.

You have made one more enemy today.  Congrats.

omg literally anti-semitism

[Ghost of V]

Yaakov, what is your opinion on the mentally handicapped? Are they favored by God? Do they get into heaven? Or do you think they should be euthanized humanely?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

LORD DAVE, I would recommend growing up, and acting like an adult. So, one more enemy. Take a number, get in line, asshole.

The mentally handicapped have a share in the World to Come (Paradise). Their condition is certainly NOT their fault, and they should be cared for humanely. Their human rights do not end just because they have mental issues.

I don't know what "favoured of God" would mean, exactly. How does being mentally damaged in some way make you favoured or NOT favoured of God? For whatever reason that we don't understand, God makes certain people with what we as humans perceive to be as weaknesses. Are they weaknesses? I don't know. Maybe the boy with Autism can show me something special about his specialty of trains that I would never have known before. Maybe the girl with Down's can make me stop and look at a flower differently than I might have otherwise.

We talk about people Learned in Torah as favoured of God. Are they? Or did they just set their mind to doing a thing and get darn good at it? What about someone who is good in his or her profession? Or a good father or mother? And so-forth.

All these things make you "favoured of God". Why? Because all humans are favoured of God, until they create odious philosophical concepts or religions that make them NOT favoured of God. When people start blowing shit up, cutting off heads, and doing other horrible things of that nature, then they must be fought, so that not all hope is lost from the world.

Yes, I speak of Muslims. But they are NOT born as bad people any more than you and I are. It is their odious belief structure that turns into that kind of thing.

Back to the mentally handicapped. Good God, why would I want to kill them? That's insane! Respect for all life forbids that! The only reason I want to take out Muslims is so they don't take me out first. If they turn peaceful toward me, I will deal them peace in return. It IS that simple.