Poll

Should we have a Zetetic Council?

Yes
No

Thork

Zetetic Council
« on: December 07, 2013, 05:44:46 PM »
Ok, so to set up a Zetetic Council, we don't really need a lot from the administrators. Literally just a forum we can post into. We'd also need an agreement from the administrators that any vote from the council that is passed is binding and that they will endevour to do whatever they can to make it possible whether they agree with it or not. The Zetetic Council should have absolute power. Not Parsifal and PizzaPlanet. That's kind of weird and frankly could be destabalising.

Rules - cos we all like rules.

Ideas will be put into the new forum and discussed by those in the council.
Votes will be publically cast for transparency.
A resolution needs 50% or more the votes in order to be passed.
Nothing can be voted on twice in the same month. Saves repeated lobbying.
Any member of the council that isn't voting regulalry can be dropped from the council as this will prevent making 50%. This is no big deal, they can always be added again if they start posting again.
It isn't to become a clique like the old beliebers club was. If you stop posting, you are off the council until you return. We don't want it just the same 10 people from now until forever. That is irritating.
The forum for discussion should be public, but only accessible to the members of the council.
Being a flat earther is not a pre-requisite. Just a hardcore member of the forum with the society's best interests at heart. 

Ok, what do people think?

I'd expect the council to be voting mostly on matters of FET and how to promote it. Whther to appoint presidents, have memberships, what goes into a goodie bag, should we contact such and such a media outlet, who should respond to whatever event, - that kind of thing.
I wouldn't expect too many votes for technical stuff, because frankly our technical team know better than we do. But the council's vote has to be binding, otherwise there is no point in the council.

Is this something people are interested in?
Do the administrators agree to this?

Other suggestions welcome.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 05:53:09 PM by Thork »

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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2013, 05:59:32 PM »
Ok, so to set up a Zetetic Council, we don't really need a lot from the administrators. Literally just a forum we can post into. We'd also need an agreement from the administrators that any vote from the council that is passed is binding and that they will endevour to do whatever they can to make it possible whether they agree with it or not. The Zetetic Council should have absolute power. Not Parsifal and PizzaPlanet. That's kind of weird and frankly could be destabalising.

Rules - cos we all like rules.

Ideas will be put into the new forum and discussed by those in the council.
Votes will be publically cast for transparency.
A resolution needs 50% or more the votes in order to be passed.
Nothing can be voted on twice in the same month. Saves repeated lobbying.
Any member of the council that isn't voting regulalry can be dropped from the council as this will prevent making 50%. This is no big deal, they can always be added again if they start posting again.
It isn't to become a clique like the old beliebers club was. If you stop posting, you are off the council until you return. We don't want it just the same 10 people from now until forever. That is irritating.
The forum for discussion should be public, but only accessible to the members of the council.
Being a flat earther is not a pre-requisite. Just a hardcore member of the forum with the society's best interests at heart. 

Ok, what do people think?

I'd expect the council to be voting mostly on matters of FET and how to promote it. Whther to appoint presidents, have memberships, what goes into a goodie bag, should we contact such and such a media outlet, who should respond to whatever event, - that kind of thing.
I wouldn't expect too many votes for technical stuff, because frankly our technical team know better than we do. But the council's vote has to be binding, otherwise there is no point in the council.

Is this something people are interested in?
Do the administrators agree to this?

Other suggestions welcome.
Check you out, trying to take Parsifal and PP's power away. They may decide to share power or give it away, or decide to set up a Zetetic Council. Who are you to say that they shouldn't have absolute power?
God is real.

Thork

Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2013, 06:02:05 PM »
Check you out, trying to take Parsifal and PP's power away. They may decide to share power or give it away, or decide to set up a Zetetic Council. Who are you to say that they shouldn't have absolute power?
i'm one of the many users on this site with no power. That was kind of an odd question.
Are you suggesting Parsifal should be president?

We all voted with our feet to trust in their ability to administrate and look after the site. I'm not so sure we also voted them to lead the sociey. I was of the impression the society should be run by its members at last. Not by people who know the passwords for the forum. That's what ruined FES the last time.

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Offline junker

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Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2013, 06:04:53 PM »
Check you out, trying to take Parsifal and PP's power away. They may decide to share power or give it away, or decide to set up a Zetetic Council. Who are you to say that they shouldn't have absolute power?
i'm one of the many users on this site with no power. That was kind of an odd question.
Are you suggesting Parsifal should be president?

We all voted with our feet to trust in their ability to administrate and look after the site. I'm not so sure we also voted them to lead the sociey. I was of the impression the society should be run by its members at last. Not by people who know the passwords for the forum. That's what ruined FES the last time.

We all know this.  Please ignore Hoppy.

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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2013, 06:05:52 PM »
Check you out, trying to take Parsifal and PP's power away. They may decide to share power or give it away, or decide to set up a Zetetic Council. Who are you to say that they shouldn't have absolute power?
i'm one of the many users on this site with no power. That was kind of an odd question.
Are you suggesting Parsifal should be president?

We all voted with our feet to trust in their ability to administrate and look after the site. I'm not so sure we also voted them to lead the sociey. I was of the impression the society should be run by its members at last. Not by people who know the passwords for the forum. That's what ruined FES the last time.
We all must fall under someones password control, unless you have your own website. Then we must fall under your password control.
God is real.

Thork

Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2013, 06:07:17 PM »
Check you out, trying to take Parsifal and PP's power away. They may decide to share power or give it away, or decide to set up a Zetetic Council. Who are you to say that they shouldn't have absolute power?
i'm one of the many users on this site with no power. That was kind of an odd question.
Are you suggesting Parsifal should be president?

We all voted with our feet to trust in their ability to administrate and look after the site. I'm not so sure we also voted them to lead the sociey. I was of the impression the society should be run by its members at last. Not by people who know the passwords for the forum. That's what ruined FES the last time.
We all must fall under someones password control, unless you have your own website. Then we must fall under your password control.
What has that got to do with the community deciding on how the society is run?

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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2013, 06:09:14 PM »
Check you out, trying to take Parsifal and PP's power away. They may decide to share power or give it away, or decide to set up a Zetetic Council. Who are you to say that they shouldn't have absolute power?
i'm one of the many users on this site with no power. That was kind of an odd question.
Are you suggesting Parsifal should be president?

We all voted with our feet to trust in their ability to administrate and look after the site. I'm not so sure we also voted them to lead the sociey. I was of the impression the society should be run by its members at last. Not by people who know the passwords for the forum. That's what ruined FES the last time.
We all must fall under someones password control, unless you have your own website. Then we must fall under your password control.
What has that got to do with the community deciding on how the society is run?
It means Parsifil is boss for now.
God is real.

Thork

Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2013, 06:10:03 PM »
Check you out, trying to take Parsifal and PP's power away. They may decide to share power or give it away, or decide to set up a Zetetic Council. Who are you to say that they shouldn't have absolute power?
i'm one of the many users on this site with no power. That was kind of an odd question.
Are you suggesting Parsifal should be president?

We all voted with our feet to trust in their ability to administrate and look after the site. I'm not so sure we also voted them to lead the sociey. I was of the impression the society should be run by its members at last. Not by people who know the passwords for the forum. That's what ruined FES the last time.
We all must fall under someones password control, unless you have your own website. Then we must fall under your password control.
What has that got to do with the community deciding on how the society is run?
It means Parsifil is boss for now.
Hence the reason for this thread. Have you been drinking?

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Offline junker

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Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2013, 06:11:19 PM »
Check you out, trying to take Parsifal and PP's power away. They may decide to share power or give it away, or decide to set up a Zetetic Council. Who are you to say that they shouldn't have absolute power?
i'm one of the many users on this site with no power. That was kind of an odd question.
Are you suggesting Parsifal should be president?

We all voted with our feet to trust in their ability to administrate and look after the site. I'm not so sure we also voted them to lead the sociey. I was of the impression the society should be run by its members at last. Not by people who know the passwords for the forum. That's what ruined FES the last time.
We all must fall under someones password control, unless you have your own website. Then we must fall under your password control.
What has that got to do with the community deciding on how the society is run?
It means Parsifil is boss for now.
Have you been following at all what we are doing here?


The forum is a platform for discussion and ideas.  FE-related and unrelated alike.  The council would be a separate entity that would overlap with the forum, but directs the society's actions, not the forums.  Of course, it would be smoother to have both entities on the same page, which I am confident we can accomplish.

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Online xasop

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Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2013, 06:19:23 PM »
I am in agreement with the principle of a Zetetic Council. I have two suggestions to make.

First, formalise the process of appointment for the Council. Who/what decides who is allowed into the Council? If it is by Council vote, who makes the initial appointment decision? I would suggest that Council appointments be by general vote of all official Society members, since they are the ones being represented.

Second, write a Constitution which defines what power the Council does and does not have within the society. I don't agree with absolute power; the Council should not be able to do ridiculous things like dissolve itself and hand all authority to Arnold Schwartzenegger. Then you can have a 50% majority vote required to do anything that the Constitution allows, but a two-thirds majority vote required to amend the Constitution.

There is some overlap between this issue and how I had planned to do moderator appointments for the forum. What are people's thoughts on moderator appointments? Should they be appointed by the forum admins, or the Council? My viewpoint is that they should be appointed by the forum admins until such time as that creates conflict with the Society, and then the Council should have the power to make an overriding decision.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Thork

Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2013, 06:23:50 PM »
For me, I think mods should be appointed by the admins, as much as that makes my butt crack sweat.

But I also don't think admins should mod. I think they should arbitrate when a mod dispute arises. Let mods make the mistakes and be the last line of defense. Right now if you ban me, there is nothing anyone can do about it. If Jroa does and he's being a jerk, you can overturn it on appeal.
But for me, you guys can run the site. You host it, you decide.

The point of the council is to direct the society which will mostly be things not in the forums. Do we have a twitter account, who is going to talk to the BBC, what T-shirt logos should we have etc.

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Online xasop

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Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2013, 06:30:14 PM »
What about my suggestions regarding Council member appointment and a Constitution? Do you have any thoughts on that?

Also, I want to be absolutely clear on this point: Neither PizzaPlanet nor myself has any interest at all in running the Society. We like this forum and we're both fairly technical people who can keep it up and running, and we'll participate in discussions we find interesting, but Society politics isn't one of those discussions. A Zetetic Council is something neither of us is going to try to block.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Thork

Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2013, 06:39:49 PM »
What about my suggestions regarding Council member appointment and a Constitution? Do you have any thoughts on that?
Yes.

But its not my society either. I'd like to hear what other people think first. Otherwise its going to end up the Flat Earth Society according to Thork. I want to collaborate, not dictate.

Neither PizzaPlanet nor myself has any interest at all in running the Society. A Zetetic Council is something neither of us is going to try to block.
Cool. I guess we are all on the same page.  :)

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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2013, 06:40:43 PM »
Parsifal, like it or not you are the head of this site. You can delegate as much authority as you wish. When push comes to shove you will be the one to save the society or not. Daniel did not react over time to save .org, and it is dying. I think for now a few admins could run things with a few mods, all appointed by you. Over time you could think on and set up the guiding structures.
God is real.

Thork

Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2013, 07:18:53 PM »
Saddam Hussein   07:16:33 PM Voting in Zetetic Council.

I want see more of this! :D

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Offline Excelsior John

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Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2013, 08:18:39 PM »
Ok, so to set up a Zetetic Council, we don't really need a lot from the administrators. Literally just a forum we can post into. We'd also need an agreement from the administrators that any vote from the council that is passed is binding and that they will endevour to do whatever they can to make it possible whether they agree with it or not. The Zetetic Council should have absolute power. Not Parsifal and PizzaPlanet. That's kind of weird and frankly could be destabalising.

Rules - cos we all like rules.

Ideas will be put into the new forum and discussed by those in the council.
Votes will be publically cast for transparency.
A resolution needs 50% or more the votes in order to be passed.
Nothing can be voted on twice in the same month. Saves repeated lobbying.
Any member of the council that isn't voting regulalry can be dropped from the council as this will prevent making 50%. This is no big deal, they can always be added again if they start posting again.
It isn't to become a clique like the old beliebers club was. If you stop posting, you are off the council until you return. We don't want it just the same 10 people from now until forever. That is irritating.
The forum for discussion should be public, but only accessible to the members of the council.
Being a flat earther is not a pre-requisite. Just a hardcore member of the forum with the society's best interests at heart. 

Ok, what do people think?

I'd expect the council to be voting mostly on matters of FET and how to promote it. Whther to appoint presidents, have memberships, what goes into a goodie bag, should we contact such and such a media outlet, who should respond to whatever event, - that kind of thing.
I wouldn't expect too many votes for technical stuff, because frankly our technical team know better than we do. But the council's vote has to be binding, otherwise there is no point in the council.

Is this something people are interested in?
Do the administrators agree to this?
Other suggestions welcome.
I think it would be a vary good idea to have a zetetic counsel to reduce coruption and bring democracey to the FES. How would once aply to become a member of thus counsel?! :)
Ok, so to set up a Zetetic Council, we don't really need a lot from the administrators. Literally just a forum we can post into. We'd also need an agreement from the administrators that any vote from the council that is passed is binding and that they will endevour to do whatever they can to make it possible whether they agree with it or not. The Zetetic Council should have absolute power. Not Parsifal and PizzaPlanet. That's kind of weird and frankly could be destabalising.

Rules - cos we all like rules.

Ideas will be put into the new forum and discussed by those in the council.
Votes will be publically cast for transparency.
A resolution needs 50% or more the votes in order to be passed.
Nothing can be voted on twice in the same month. Saves repeated lobbying.
Any member of the council that isn't voting regulalry can be dropped from the council as this will prevent making 50%. This is no big deal, they can always be added again if they start posting again.
It isn't to become a clique like the old beliebers club was. If you stop posting, you are off the council until you return. We don't want it just the same 10 people from now until forever. That is irritating.
The forum for discussion should be public, but only accessible to the members of the council.
Being a flat earther is not a pre-requisite. Just a hardcore member of the forum with the society's best interests at heart. 

Ok, what do people think?

I'd expect the council to be voting mostly on matters of FET and how to promote it. Whther to appoint presidents, have memberships, what goes into a goodie bag, should we contact such and such a media outlet, who should respond to whatever event, - that kind of thing.
I wouldn't expect too many votes for technical stuff, because frankly our technical team know better than we do. But the council's vote has to be binding, otherwise there is no point in the council.

Is this something people are interested in?
Do the administrators agree to this?

Other suggestions welcome.
Check you out, trying to take Parsifal and PP's power away. They may decide to share power or give it away, or decide to set up a Zetetic Council. Who are you to say that they shouldn't have absolute power?
I do agree that thus far pp and Parsifal have been vary fine leaders however there must be some type of limitation. Pherhaps we could keep them as the supreme leaders with limitation by the counsel
I am in agreement with the principle of a Zetetic Council. I have two suggestions to make.

First, formalise the process of appointment for the Council. Who/what decides who is allowed into the Council? If it is by Council vote, who makes the initial appointment decision? I would suggest that Council appointments be by general vote of all official Society members, since they are the ones being represented.

Second, write a Constitution which defines what power the Council does and does not have within the society. I don't agree with absolute power; the Council should not be able to do ridiculous things like dissolve itself and hand all authority to Arnold Schwartzenegger. Then you can have a 50% majority vote required to do anything that the Constitution allows, but a two-thirds majority vote required to amend the Constitution.

There is some overlap between this issue and how I had planned to do moderator appointments for the forum. What are people's thoughts on moderator appointments? Should they be appointed by the forum admins, or the Council? My viewpoint is that they should be appointed by the forum admins until such time as that creates conflict with the Society, and then the Council should have the power to make an overriding decision.
Ah a constitution good idea!!! :D Vary good ideas here parsifal good job and im especieley glad to see you arent abusing your power but insted advocating limited goverment!!! God bless FES!!!
Viva la FES!
Quote from: Yaakov ben Avraham link=https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59968.msg1544396#msg1544396
Excelsior:...You are clearly a reasonable and intelligent person.

Thork

Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2013, 08:21:23 PM »
I think it would be a vary good idea to have a zetetic counsel to reduce coruption and bring democracey to the FES. How would once aply to become a member of thus counsel?! :)
I suspect the initial members will be people who have been at FES for several years. Over time they will then vote in new members that they feel can enhance the Council.

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Offline Excelsior John

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Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2013, 08:31:12 PM »
I think it would be a vary good idea to have a zetetic counsel to reduce coruption and bring democracey to the FES. How would once aply to become a member of thus counsel?! :)
I suspect the initial members will be people who have been at FES for several years. Over time they will then vote in new members that they feel can enhance the Council.
Sounds legit to me :)
Viva la FES!
Quote from: Yaakov ben Avraham link=https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59968.msg1544396#msg1544396
Excelsior:...You are clearly a reasonable and intelligent person.

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Offline Snupes

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Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2013, 12:13:30 AM »
I like it with Parsifal's suggestions; I'm a little wary about the whole idea since, yeah, anyone having absolute power sounds like a bad idea. So yes, the constitution will help a lot (even if this is sounding incredibly cheesily 1700s America)...though I do fear that we may end up with a situation like Congress, where the Zetetic Council just sucks and there's nothing nobody can do about it. Not sure if there's much that can be done about that, though.
There are cigarettes in joints. You don't smoke it by itself.

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Offline Excelsior John

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Re: Zetetic Council
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2013, 12:54:39 AM »
I like it with Parsifal's suggestions; I'm a little wary about the whole idea since, yeah, anyone having absolute power sounds like a bad idea. So yes, the constitution will help a lot (even if this is sounding incredibly cheesily 1700s America)...though I do fear that we may end up with a situation like Congress, where the Zetetic Council just sucks and there's nothing nobody can do about it. Not sure if there's much that can be done about that, though.
I love cheesey 1700s America! :D Anyway yeah we just need to have a stric esplicit constitution so that were not in the same controversey about "being a dick" implys. We should also have a peoples vote (as in direc democracey) for more major things
Viva la FES!
Quote from: Yaakov ben Avraham link=https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59968.msg1544396#msg1544396
Excelsior:...You are clearly a reasonable and intelligent person.