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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9840 on: August 09, 2022, 05:37:10 PM »
That appears to be the messaging on this from the GOP.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/09/trump-world-republicans-fbi-2024-run-00050485

Strange how things have turned.  The Republicans are now the ones saying to defund the police.

Weird how that works out. They also considered getting rid of official documents super important when they said Hillary did it. I guess they've changed their attitude about that too. Funny how that works out.
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Online Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9841 on: August 09, 2022, 05:46:10 PM »
That appears to be the messaging on this from the GOP.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/09/trump-world-republicans-fbi-2024-run-00050485

Strange how things have turned.  The Republicans are now the ones saying to defund the police.

Quote
Neal Katyal, a former federal U.S. Solicitor General challenged Trump on MSNBC to release a copy of the search warrant that was left at Mar-a-Lago. “If you believe this is such an abuse, release the warrant and let us decide for ourselves,” Katyal said.

Classic Trump.  Fan the flames with lack of evidence while holding the evidence you say isn't there.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9842 on: August 09, 2022, 06:20:24 PM »
"When you're attacking FBI agents because you're under criminal investigation, you're losing," Huckabee Sanders wrote in Nov. 2016



Apparently it's only okay for the FBI to investigate democrats.
My hate for you and everything you stand for is so much deeper than the depths of Shambala that you could probably take the entire Lungmen population down there and back up around twenty million times before you would have sunk to the end of my hate.



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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9843 on: August 09, 2022, 08:17:11 PM »
That appears to be the messaging on this from the GOP.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/09/trump-world-republicans-fbi-2024-run-00050485

Strange how things have turned.  The Republicans are now the ones saying to defund the police.

Yes, as it turns out, people who say "defund the police" are universally people who are at the wrong end of the law.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9844 on: August 09, 2022, 08:34:50 PM »
Yes, as it turns out, people who say "defund the police" are universally people who are at the wrong end of the law.

Well that's completely untrue.  Defund the police as a slogan came from people who were fed up with excessive violence propagated by the police.  That's not being on the wrong end of the law, it's being in the out-group police neither serve nor protect.
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9845 on: August 11, 2022, 02:02:31 PM »
Yes, as it turns out, people who say "defund the police" are universally people who are at the wrong end of the law.

Well that's completely untrue.  Defund the police as a slogan came from people who were fed up with excessive violence propagated by the police.  That's not being on the wrong end of the law, it's being in the out-group police neither serve nor protect.

This. It came on the back of the killing of George Floyd, the cover-up surrounding the Amhoud Arbery killing, and a whole host of other instances where police over-escalation and violence led to injury or death for innocent parties.

The homeless guy in the wheelchair who lost an eye from a baton round, the journalists who similarly suffered.

The elderly pushed over onto concrete, then ignored by Buffalo police.

The innocent cyclist crossing the road who was picked on by NY police because he happened to be passing by.

etc
etc

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9846 on: August 11, 2022, 03:51:34 PM »
I live in a town where a corrupt and violent police force has brutalized the citizens for over half a century. Only in the last 20 years is the truth starting to surface about them.
People filed ethics complaints, they had peaceful protests and vigils then escalated to violent riots. Nothing changed.
The police were protected from the city authorities by powerful unions. The state officials didn't care to take any action. The federal government threatened to support the corrupt police with Federal troops.

The roots of this corruption are so deep that three police Chiefs have come and gone in 2 years trying to get the Department under control.

Defund the police doesn't mean we won't have police. It means we're going to stop paying these assholes and come up with a different vendor.

If your cable company gives you shitty service, you fire them and go to a different cable company.


.
My hate for you and everything you stand for is so much deeper than the depths of Shambala that you could probably take the entire Lungmen population down there and back up around twenty million times before you would have sunk to the end of my hate.



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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9847 on: August 11, 2022, 04:20:22 PM »
Defund the police doesn't mean we won't have police. It means we're going to stop paying these assholes and come up with a different vendor.
A different vendor than the government? Presumably that means you're in favour of private policing (if not, what's the alternative?). That sounds like a fantastic way to make things much worse.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9848 on: August 11, 2022, 05:01:49 PM »
Defund the police doesn't mean we won't have police. It means we're going to stop paying these assholes and come up with a different vendor.
A different vendor than the government? Presumably that means you're in favour of private policing (if not, what's the alternative?). That sounds like a fantastic way to make things much worse.

Privatizing any use of force, police, prisons or military is a bad idea.

The municipality would simply dismantle the police department and rebuild a new one with a new name, new charter and new people.
Hopefully, this could skirt the union protections that have helped protect the corrupt cops.

My hate for you and everything you stand for is so much deeper than the depths of Shambala that you could probably take the entire Lungmen population down there and back up around twenty million times before you would have sunk to the end of my hate.



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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9849 on: August 11, 2022, 05:03:25 PM »
Many US cities and towns are massively overfunding their police forces. I'll post stats later, but when you look at some of them, the city or town budget is basically a police force that does some other incidental stuff.

Spend elsewhere to keep the populace happy, housed and fed, and you have less need for the police force. Take money away from police (defund them) and if you spend it in the right places elsewhere, you won't notice the defunding.

Example; Uvalde. 40% of the budget on police, and look where it got them ...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-28/why-police-funding-makes-up-40-uvalde-s-city-budget

Check out the graph halfway down the page
« Last Edit: August 11, 2022, 05:19:40 PM by Tumeni »
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Online Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9850 on: August 11, 2022, 05:34:34 PM »
Defund the police doesn't mean we won't have police. It means we're going to stop paying these assholes and come up with a different vendor.
A different vendor than the government? Presumably that means you're in favour of private policing (if not, what's the alternative?). That sounds like a fantastic way to make things much worse.

Privatizing any use of force, police, prisons or military is a bad idea.

The municipality would simply dismantle the police department and rebuild a new one with a new name, new charter and new people.
Hopefully, this could skirt the union protections that have helped protect the corrupt cops.

That's pointless and likely not possible.

Imagine telling 50 cops "You're fired" then having no police coverage for like 2 weeks, while you try to hire people to replace the people you just fired, knowing there likely won't be anyone to hire and/or they are people who were fired for doing the same shit you just fired your force for doing.

If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9851 on: August 11, 2022, 06:28:42 PM »
That's pointless and likely not possible.

Imagine telling 50 cops "You're fired" then having no police coverage for like 2 weeks, while you try to hire people to replace the people you just fired, knowing there likely won't be anyone to hire and/or they are people who were fired for doing the same shit you just fired your force for doing.

It's definitely a heavy lift that would require a high level of choreography between the outgoing and the incoming. Instead of going weeks without a police department, they could have the old and new departments overlap by a few weeks.

The problem is that taking the corrupt cops off the force is like whack a mole. Remember, one of the cops standing around watching George Floyd die was in his first week on the job. If no one had videotaped the incident, those cops would have gone back to the office, written their reports and been heroes that killed another filthy criminal. That was the training that the newbie was receiving.

Imagine a new, honest police chief walking into a department looking at 50 crooked cops. Is he going to tell them that they're fired?
My hate for you and everything you stand for is so much deeper than the depths of Shambala that you could probably take the entire Lungmen population down there and back up around twenty million times before you would have sunk to the end of my hate.



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Online Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9852 on: August 11, 2022, 08:18:26 PM »
Also:

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116974512/justice-department-unseal-warrant-mar-a-lago-trump

I'm sure Action or Tom or someone will spin this as being fake or irrelevant or not warranting something.  I dunno. 
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9853 on: August 11, 2022, 08:32:58 PM »
https://www.axios.com/2022/08/11/fbi-cincinnati-armed-breach

The state of the right in the US is such that the FBI serving a lawfully signed warrant creates stochastic terrorism.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9854 on: August 11, 2022, 08:38:10 PM »
In the news....

https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-man-taunts-trump-by-flying-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-banner-over-mar-a-lago/


LOL...
He just needed to add "COCK SHIT" to the end of the banner.
My hate for you and everything you stand for is so much deeper than the depths of Shambala that you could probably take the entire Lungmen population down there and back up around twenty million times before you would have sunk to the end of my hate.



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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9855 on: August 11, 2022, 08:43:22 PM »
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Online Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9856 on: August 12, 2022, 05:03:21 AM »
https://www.axios.com/2022/08/11/fbi-cincinnati-armed-breach

The state of the right in the US is such that the FBI serving a lawfully signed warrant creates stochastic terrorism.
Especially in relation to Nuclear Weapons. If this is accurate.

https://mobile.twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1557880239287455744
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9857 on: August 12, 2022, 08:38:48 AM »
The municipality would simply dismantle the police department and rebuild a new one with a new name, new charter and new people.
So uh, just fire everyone and start hiring from scratch? In a field that's chronically understaffed and which keeps getting forced to lower its standards further and further just to keep the headcount at a reasonable level?

"lmao just get rid of everyone and then use our infinite pool of resources to build a new system"
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9858 on: August 12, 2022, 12:05:38 PM »
So uh, just fire everyone and start hiring from scratch? In a field that's chronically understaffed and which keeps getting forced to lower its standards further and further just to keep the headcount at a reasonable level?

"lmao just get rid of everyone and then use our infinite pool of resources to build a new system"

Yep, that's the exact smug attitude we get from the corrupt police department. We have a force dominated by corruption and violence backed by a powerful labor union laughing at us saying, "You can't fire us all!"

We hire good cops and good police chiefs but they get their lives threaten. They have to communicate outside of the department for their safety and the safety of their families. For years, this city had a 'metro gang strike force' that was terrifying the community. It didn't stop until they started blatantly shaking down random people of color for their cash before the Feds finally started to take action. They told us that the gangs would take over the streets if we dismantled this 'strike force.' It turns out, they were having zero impact on gang activity.

Americans will stare at a Chuck Norris movie for an hour and a half watching, "one good cop fighting a dirty department with corruption that reaches into the highest levels of political power." But, in real life, they have no answers. Chuck Norris isn't going to beat up an entire police force and throw a corrupt Senator off a building.

So tell us, you know a lot about what won't work. What would be your plan for dealing with a heavily armed police presence, protected by Republicans and police unions that are harassing good people while the criminals run rampant?
My hate for you and everything you stand for is so much deeper than the depths of Shambala that you could probably take the entire Lungmen population down there and back up around twenty million times before you would have sunk to the end of my hate.



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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9859 on: August 12, 2022, 12:44:10 PM »
So tell us, you know a lot about what won't work. What would be your plan for dealing with a heavily armed police presence, protected by Republicans and police unions that are harassing good people while the criminals run rampant?
I don't have one. Shit's fucked. But I also don't pretend to have a revolutionary plan that will Totally Work™.

Revolutionary plans that will Totally Work™ are dangerous, because they're a fantastic way to make things much worse. Friends don't let friends spread that kinda BS.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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