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Offline BillO

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #640 on: August 08, 2022, 05:43:24 AM »
Tom, I'm convinced it did occur. I'm not accusing you of makin it up.  I'm not arguing that point.  However, it was astonishingly obviously SARCASM!!!!.  It seems you don't know what that means.  Go look it up.  There are 327 Million explanations on the internet.  Many of those must be from Fake Earthers.

Research like Fake Earther's do.

Enjoy.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 05:51:02 AM by BillO »
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I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

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Offline stack

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #641 on: August 08, 2022, 07:01:54 AM »
If you guys have nothing to post except a low content post, I would suggest not posting.

It doesn't get more low content than posting some random non-attributable tweet from one individual on the planet talking about a girls-night-out conversation. It literally means nothing and is completely irrelevant.

Wrong. It does not need to be attributable, or have even occurred, to convey the idea that women could just opt for higher standards and marriage.

An argument was expressed there, and it was not directly addressed.

How does one opt for higher standards and marriage in the case of rape or incest?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Buy Illegal Abortion
« Reply #642 on: August 08, 2022, 07:12:27 AM »
Fixed the title for U guyzzzz.
SARCASM!!!!
If you post like this once more in PR&S or other upper fora, it's off to the shadow realm with you.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

شاحنات صعبة للغاية

Re: Buy Illegal Abortion
« Reply #643 on: August 08, 2022, 07:37:00 AM »
Even died in the wool fanatics of misogyny and religious mansplainin' (Tom and Achtung80. talking to you guys here) will have to admit that if it is not available legally it will promote a criminal source

Alternatively
I also think that cherry picking anecdotes which fit your worldview is a better way of forming opinions than looking at data.

BillO is right of course, although I never feel that's a good argument for legalisation - you could apply the "it'll happen anyway, it'll just go underground" to anything.
But of course the consequences of that in this case are potentially quite serious.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #644 on: August 08, 2022, 12:33:28 PM »
The bolded bit of SB 1257 is interesting. Example, if a physician determines that a woman is suicidal because of her rape or incest derived pregnancy and believes she will attempt suicide because of the pregnancy and s/he performs an abortion based upon that, that physician will be charged with a Class C felony.
It seems to delineate the authority and duties of a physician and a psychiatrist.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 03:24:59 PM by Action80 »
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline rooster

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #645 on: August 08, 2022, 03:58:52 PM »
It does not matter if it occurred or not. The point is clearly that women can just get higher standards or opt for marriage.
One is not a connoisseur at birth. Only with a solid knowledge base and experience can one develop impeccable taste.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #646 on: August 08, 2022, 05:51:26 PM »
It does not matter if it occurred or not. The point is clearly that women can just get higher standards or opt for marriage.
One is not a connoisseur at birth. Only with a solid knowledge base and experience can one develop impeccable taste.

Yes, because no woman has ever, in the history of humanity, told her suitors that she was waiting until marriage.

How does one opt for higher standards and marriage in the case of rape or incest?

Parents can and do teach their children not to engage in incest.

Less than 1% of abortions occur to rape; you are attempting to use an extreme example to justify the personal irresponsibility of women.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2022, 04:46:34 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #647 on: August 08, 2022, 06:02:15 PM »
The bolded bit of SB 1257 is interesting. Example, if a physician determines that a woman is suicidal because of her rape or incest derived pregnancy and believes she will attempt suicide because of the pregnancy and s/he performs an abortion based upon that, that physician will be charged with a Class C felony.
It seems to delineate the authority and duties of a physician and a psychiatrist.

To an extent. Though a regular old physician can make a case for a patient being suicidal. You don't necessarily have to be a psychiatrist.

I think it simply removes the mental assessment and leaves the physical one only. In essence, one can no longer say "I'm going to kill myself if I have to carry my rapist's-fertilized egg to term," and get an abortion.

It just seems inhumane to me to force a woman to carry even just a fertilized egg (not even a heartbeat) to term even if it was fertilized as the result of incest and/or rape. There's something wrong with that.

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Offline stack

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #648 on: August 08, 2022, 06:22:17 PM »
It does not matter if it occurred or not. The point is clearly that women can just get higher standards or opt for marriage.
One is not a connoisseur at birth. Only with a solid knowledge base and experience can one develop impeccable taste.

Yes, because no woman has ever, in the history of humanity, told her suiters that she was waiting until marriage.

How does one opt for higher standards and marriage in the case of rape or incest?

Parents can and do teach their children not to engage in incest.

Less than 1% of abortions occur to rape; you are attempting to use an extreme example to justify the personal irresponsibility of women.

If 1% is so inconsequential to you, why not just leave that exemption from the ban in the law?

I guess in your eyes, a woman dying from maternal causes is even more inconsequential than rape or incest:

In 2020, 861 women were identified as having died of maternal causes in the United States, compared with 754 in 2019 (3). The maternal mortality rate for 2020 was 23.8 deaths per 100,000 live births compared with a rate of 20.1 in 2019

What about the personal responsibility of men?

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Offline rooster

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #649 on: August 08, 2022, 06:40:04 PM »
Yes, because no woman has ever, in the history of humanity, told her suiters that she was waiting until marriage.
Hmm, well are you arguing that all women should act like brain-washed, controlled, prudes or that we should have higher standards? You can only pick one because having higher standards does not equal being the virgin Mary. Or admit that you're a sexist troll and move on.

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Offline BillO

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #650 on: August 08, 2022, 06:46:45 PM »
The point is clearly that women can just get higher standards or opt for marriage.
Of course women can wait until marriage.  They very often do.  What about the following cases though:

1) A married woman gets pregnant by her husband but then finds out that she has a condition that puts both her and her child at a very high risk of death if she goes full term.

2) A woman get's raped and becomes pregnant but is in no position to be pregnant or support and care for a child.  An example here would be a woman on active duty in the armed forces or otherwise occupied in a life where being pregnant and giving birth are not possible.

3) The child will be born horribly disfigured to the extent they will have no quality of life whatsoever and will not survive, or will require constant medical support to 'live' that is far beyond the woman's ability to pay for.  For example born without a functioning major organ.

We could go on and on but perhaps you could respond to those 3.
Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #651 on: August 08, 2022, 06:53:14 PM »
We could go on and on but perhaps you could respond to those 3.
Why? Why proceed with an argument based on the idea that all women should only have sex within a marriage and only require an abortion for some medical emergency or rape? Stop giving Troll Bishop any wiggle room with a stupid premise.

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Offline BillO

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #652 on: August 08, 2022, 07:27:26 PM »
I guess you are right, but he should admit that there are some valid reasons for abortion even in his mind.  Very few abortions, at least according to reports here in Canada, are simply for birth control reasons.  Nonetheless, women need access to safe abortion if for no other reason than it's their prerogative to decide whether or not they want a child.  After all an unwanted child will not likely have a great life.

To listen to some in this thread safe abortion enables slutty behavior.  That has to be the most ridiculously misogynistic concept I have ever heard.

Next thing is they will want to eliminate all forms of contraceptives.
Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

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Offline WTF_Seriously

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #653 on: August 08, 2022, 07:31:41 PM »
..... justify the personal irresponsibility of women.

Of course you meant, once again, to say the irresponsibility of men.  Either that or you're simply a sexist who thoroughly enjoys the patriarchy that the U.S. has always been and seems to be heading even further to being.
Flat-Earthers seem to have a very low standard of evidence for what they want to believe but an impossibly high standard of evidence for what they don’t want to believe.

Lee McIntyre, Boston University

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Offline rooster

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #654 on: August 08, 2022, 07:34:33 PM »
I guess you are right, but he should admit that there are some valid reasons for abortion even in his mind.
No, he won't. He is literally a troll.

To listen to some in this thread safe abortion enables slutty behavior.  That has to be the most ridiculously misogynistic concept I have ever heard.

Next thing is they will want to eliminate all forms of contraceptives.
Yes. He is a misogynistic troll.

Meeting him halfway to get him to admit to something he never will is just losing the argument that abortion shouldn't be banned for any specific reasons other than time limits. You don't need to engage with him on his level, it just gives him the attention to keep going.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 07:36:46 PM by rooster »

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Offline markjo

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #655 on: August 08, 2022, 08:50:35 PM »
Parents can and do teach their children not to engage in incest.
Except for the parents engaging in the incest, of course.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

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If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #656 on: August 09, 2022, 04:41:26 PM »
..... justify the personal irresponsibility of women.

Of course you meant, once again, to say the irresponsibility of men.  Either that or you're simply a sexist who thoroughly enjoys the patriarchy that the U.S. has always been and seems to be heading even further to being.

Men are already responsible. If a woman decides to have the baby, the man is responsible to support it by law and can't walk away. The man is sentenced to 18 years of labor to support the child. When a man complains the societal response is "Your fault, pay up!"

If the woman decides not to have the baby, she can do so without repercussion. She is not held to the same standards to be compelled to support her baby and can choose to kill it and escape responsibility.

Quote from: stack
If 1% is so inconsequential to you, why not just leave that exemption from the ban in the law?

I have no idea why you are asking me to change a law. If it's illegal then it's illegal. If it's not, it's not. That edge case doesn't really matter to me. But Tennessee may value the individuality of life, even if its by rape, and would expect those women to pursue adoption or other options, expecting women to give up 9 months for the sake of their baby. In California it is illegal to clear out bird eggs from a tree in your back yard, so making abortion illegal in cases of rape because the people in your state value life isn't totally absurd.

Yes, because no woman has ever, in the history of humanity, told her suiters that she was waiting until marriage.
Hmm, well are you arguing that all women should act like brain-washed, controlled, prudes or that we should have higher standards? You can only pick one because having higher standards does not equal being the virgin Mary. Or admit that you're a sexist troll and move on.

At some points in history parents taught young women to have very high standards. Parental approval used to be expected for a woman to take a suitor, taking care of the 'inexperienced' issue.

If someone did get pregnant outside of marriage family pressure would be applied by both the man's family and the woman's family, if they had respectable morals, to get married and have the baby. Abortion was not an option and was something generally relegated to prostitutes and riff raff. The young adults going into the relationship knew that they would need to get married if a pregnancy occurred, so they would pick the best partner to pursue a relationship with from the start.

Quote from: BillO
Of course women can wait until marriage.  They very often do.  What about the following cases though:

1) A married woman gets pregnant by her husband but then finds out that she has a condition that puts both her and her child at a very high risk of death if she goes full term.

2) A woman get's raped and becomes pregnant but is in no position to be pregnant or support and care for a child.  An example here would be a woman on active duty in the armed forces or otherwise occupied in a life where being pregnant and giving birth are not possible.

3) The child will be born horribly disfigured to the extent they will have no quality of life whatsoever and will not survive, or will require constant medical support to 'live' that is far beyond the woman's ability to pay for.  For example born without a functioning major organ.

We could go on and on but perhaps you could respond to those 3.

Number 1 and 3 are extreme edge cases and the vast majority of abortions do not occur for that reason.

For number 2 the woman is typically discharged from active duty and is given maternity leave and possibly a desk job somewhere.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2022, 06:08:25 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #657 on: August 09, 2022, 04:52:06 PM »
Abortion was not an option and was something generally relegated to prostitutes and riff raff.

Source?

Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #658 on: August 09, 2022, 05:00:12 PM »
Parental approval used to be expected for a woman to take a suitor, taking care of the 'inexperienced' issue.

If someone did get pregnant outside of marriage family pressure would be applied by both the man's family and the woman's family, if they had respectable morals, to get married and have the baby.
Sir, we are in the year of our lord 2022. Mayhaps you could join us.

Abortion was not an option and was something generally relegated to prostitutes and riff raff.
lol very untrue

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Offline xasop

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Re: Bye Bye Abortion
« Reply #659 on: August 10, 2022, 09:27:19 PM »
Carney's organisation works with an evangelical law firm called ADF International whose London spokesperson Lois McLatchie has been interviewed by Scottish media saying the buffer zones "ban legitimate offers of help and silent prayer."

"Women have the right to hear about these options at the point of need and it is patronising of the government saying women don't want to hear this," McLatchie told BBC Scotland in a recent interview.
Excuse me, what? "Legitimate offers of help and silent prayer"? How exactly are these protests "helping" women?
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol