[Rushy]

Communism works in small communities where everyone knows each other and works together. Communism, funnily enough, stops working above the commune level. Some jackoff in Indiana couldn't give two shits about whether some dumbass in California gets their toilet paper.

[model 29]

Do YOU believe in Communism?

I don't, but lot of people here in the US seem to want it.

[Eddy Baby]

It's a n- Just because it hasn't worked yet doesn't mean it will at some point, kinda like nuclear power, y'know.

Except the technology needed for nuclear power can improve. The technology needed for communism (ie. rewiring the brain) will not be around for the foreseeable future.


I also wonder whether communists realise how much progress is due to capitalism. Under communism there would need to be full employment, otherwise it kind of defeats the point of communism (worker's paradise and all). And when there's full employment, there's no competition and almost no progress gets made. Why would a company find a way of making steel quicker if it means that 1000 workers get made redundant?

And if everyone lives by the 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his need' creed, what happens when I want some 'luxury' item? Say I want a guitar. Ok, here's your guitar. What if I want a flute now? Can I have that? Two flutes?
So either, communism allows for every member of society to have everything they want (so, a system that assumes infinite resources, which is the very thing they berate capitalism for), or a system arises that dictates who gets what and when. So you'd either flat out not be allowed the things you want, or a huge, bloated bureaucracy arises (sound familiar?).

[Pete Svarrior]

I don't think we're talking about the same thing.

[Eddy Baby]

Do go on.


Edit: Actually don't, I assume you're going to say 'Actually communism is a stateless society, etc etc.'

1. I'm not sure how that has any bearing on what I just said.
2. Even if it does, I assume you believe in the necessity of some kind of temporary dominance of the dictatorship of the proletariat in order to transition to full communism. How would that overcome these issues? And while we're on the subject, why would anyone think that the dictatorship of the proletariat will just 'go away' over time?

[markjo]

It can work quite well for very small communities.

It seems to work quite well for ants and bees, and they can have some pretty big communities.

[Particle Person]

It can work quite well for very small communities.

It seems to work quite well for ants and bees, and they can have some pretty big communities.

Does it really work well for them, though? Have they invented medicine or videogames yet?

[Shane]

Ants and bees are both very angry creatures, probably due to communism.

[EnigmaZV]

Communism works in small communities where everyone knows each other and works together. Communism, funnily enough, stops working above the commune level. Some jackoff in Indiana couldn't give two shits about whether some dumbass in California gets their toilet paper.

I don't even know that it works in that case. At some point, someone will feel as though they're doing more than their fair share of the work, and hoard bits of their labour instead of sharing it equally with everyone else.

[Eddy Baby]

Communism works in small communities where everyone knows each other and works together. Communism, funnily enough, stops working above the commune level. Some jackoff in Indiana couldn't give two shits about whether some dumbass in California gets their toilet paper.

I don't even know that it works in that case. At some point, someone will feel as though they're doing more than their fair share of the work, and hoard bits of their labour instead of sharing it equally with everyone else.

I think that capitalists shoot themselves in the foot with this argument sometimes. Although humans are naturally greedy, above all they have a sense of justice. Therefore, the argument shouldn't be "but humans are naturally greedy," but "but humans are naturally just." Why should I, a hard-working, responsible type, get only what I need when a guy who does fuck all all day gets twice as much? Or does communism need a 'need-police'?

[Ghost of V]

Communism works in small communities where everyone knows each other and works together. Communism, funnily enough, stops working above the commune level. Some jackoff in Indiana couldn't give two shits about whether some dumbass in California gets their toilet paper.

I don't even know that it works in that case. At some point, someone will feel as though they're doing more than their fair share of the work, and hoard bits of their labour instead of sharing it equally with everyone else.

I think that capitalists shoot themselves in the foot with this argument sometimes. Although humans are naturally greedy, above all they have a sense of justice. Therefore, the argument shouldn't be "but humans are naturally greedy," but "but humans are naturally just." Why should I, a hard-working, responsible type, get only what I need when a guy who does fuck all all day gets twice as much? Or does communism need a 'need-police'?

No, that's still greed.
Someone who has a sense of justice would become a police officer or a doctor without doing it for the money, and shouldn't get mad if they're paid the same as a trash collector. Equal pay would promote people to become part of a certain profession because they want to, not because it pays well. We have several terrible doctors all over the country because they went to medical school solely because it would make them a lot of money. Is that how society should run? Obviously it's working, but it's still fucked up.

[Eddy Baby]

Imagine you're a binman. You do your job well. You collect all your bins.

But there's another guy that fucks around all day, makes a huge mess, is always late, and is essentially a fuck up.

However when it comes to tea time, he always grabs as much food as he can fit on his plate, and ends up throwing most of it away.
You, on the other hand, only take as much as you feel okay taking, knowing that the food needs to go around everybody.
How can this man be punished for his behaviour?
In a normal society, he would be punished by losing his job. Under communism, he would remain unpunished and free to do as he wishes.

We have several terrible doctors all over the country because they went to medical school solely because it would make them a lot of money.

Сitatioи иээdэd

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Яатioиaliту иээdэd

[Ghost of V]

In a normal society, he would be punished by losing his job. Under communism, he would remain unpunished and free to do as he wishes.

Why wouldn't he lose his job under communism? They could just transfer him to a worse job. Or throw him in prison. Communism isn't that set in stone. There are many variations. Either way, there are people like that in high-paying professions all over the country now (see: congress) and they are rarely punished. Most people at the top of the food chain under capitalism are crooked businessmen/politicians who played the system to make money, see: Comcast. Under communism, that would be impossible.

Please keep in mind that I don't think communism works.

[Eddy Baby]

They

Who 

[Ghost of V]

They

Who 

What 

[Eddy Baby]

They could just transfer him to a worse job. Or throw him in prison.

Who are the magic job transferers?

[Ghost of V]

They could just transfer him to a worse job. Or throw him in prison.

Who are the magic job transferers?

I think you're confusing communism with anarchy.

The communist state would employ its own law enforcement/military/whatever. Communism usually ends up leading to a single-party monopoly which would control such things.

I don't think the bare-bones theory of communism has ever been implemented the way Karl Marx would have liked. Therefore, I'm pulling examples from real-world communism: which did have leaders and a functioning form of government, albeit most had state capitalist economies which admittedly undermines the point.

Also, under a communist state I think "taking too much food" would be impossible to begin with as the food would be portioned out anyways. Someone would have to resort to violence or stealing to get more food, which would land them in prison or just executed. Basic forceful deterrence is usually the preferred method of control under communism (and most other governments too).

[Lord Dave]

ITT: some people think lazy employees are unique to Communism....

[Particle Person]

ITT: some people think lazy employees are unique to Communism....

Lazy employees in a communistic society affect the society as a whole much more than they would in a capitalistic one.

[Ghost of V]

I think the main point here (which others have already touched on) is that Communism works: it just doesn't work very well.