Offline reer

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How does GPS work?
« on: May 30, 2019, 04:25:01 AM »
I assume we can start by agreeing that GPS does indeed work. Your mobile phone or sat nav system know exactly where you are on earth, at all times. It's good enough to use while driving a car, and it has even been used to land airliners. GPS works, regardless of where you are on earth. Personally I have used it in Australia, New Zealand, the USA, Europe, South Africa, and several islands in the middle of the Pacific. I have heard from other who used it in other countries, and have never heard anyone mention any area in which it does not work.

In round earth theories, GPS uses a bunch of satellites, and your phone finds its position by checking the timing of signals from at least 3 of those satellites.

I understand that, according to FE, all satellites are hoaxes. There cannot be anything circling the earth, because the earth is flat. So here is my question:

In FE, what makes GPS work?

Does it use invisible balloons, in sufficient quantity that at least 3 are always visible regardless of where you are on earth? Does it use gigantic transmitters that beam signals around the earth?

Tom Bishop mentions LORAN/eLORAN as being "interoperable with GPS", but that does not explain how my phone, which does not receive LORAN signals, does its trick. In fact, the frequencies used by LORAN are too low for use in a phone - you could not fit a LORAN antenna inside a phone. Also, LORAN has a limited range, and it does not have the accuracy of GPS.

So just how does GPS work according to FE?

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Offline J-Man

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Re: How does GPS work?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2019, 12:10:23 AM »
I wonder what you consider the cellular towers every couple miles to be? GPS is not from sats, no no its from ground based positioning for the most part. Balloons and aircraft contribute. Don't be swallowed by fiction, embrace facts.
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

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Offline stack

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Re: How does GPS work?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2019, 12:25:23 AM »
I wonder what you consider the cellular towers every couple miles to be?

I think they are cellular towers. After all, it's in the name.

GPS is not from sats, no no its from ground based positioning for the most part. Balloons and aircraft contribute. Don't be swallowed by fiction, embrace facts.

Is this an opinion or do you have evidence that GPS is only ground based with a smattering of balloons and aircraft?

Re: How does GPS work?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2019, 12:28:17 AM »
I wonder what you consider the cellular towers every couple miles to be? GPS is not from sats, no no its from ground based positioning for the most part.
Have you never traveled to a place with no cellular service? I guess lots of people haven't, but I can assure you GPS still works in the middle of the desert, the top of the mountain, and out on the glacier - even if the cell service doesn't. That is, at least if you have a true GPS device on you.

Unless the ground-based explanation works for all of these cases, it's a non-argument. This point is completely irrelevant. Not incorrect, just irrelevant. GPS works without the ground-based towers, so we still need the satellites.

Balloons and aircraft contribute. Don't be swallowed by fiction, embrace facts.
This point could actually be relevant. Presumably this means there are balloons or aircraft or something flying over the deserts, the mountains, and the glaciers. So let's drop the cell tower discussion and focus on this instead.

According to your "facts," balloons and/or aircraft are doing this. Do you have anything that would count as evidence for this?

It's only fair for you to ask me for evidence. Here's what I'm willing to provide... I would offer to show you videos of satellites in orbit. I've seen satellites with my own eyes many times. I mean sure, they're just lights in the sky, but those lights are exactly where "they" tell me the satellites are supposed to be, and they move in exactly the way they are supposed to. If you mean to prove that satellites don't exist, those videos would be something you'd need to deal with.

Next, I would suggest we try to see if we can identify exactly which satellites we're connected to at any given time. This is pretty technical, so it might not be easy to do at home, but it's worth looking into.

What's NOT hard to try at home is a DirectTV satellite dish. I'm happy to try to dig up a video of a dude who takes his sat TV dish out into the desert with him. He explains how to set it up and everything. You could certainly try that easily enough. The thing with sat TV is balloons and aircraft have to move around in the sky, but a sat dish is pointing at a particular point in the sky. They can't track moving targets. So if the sat TV works like they say, it will only work right when pointed at a geostationary orbit. That should be pretty easy to test.

Offline reer

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Re: How does GPS work?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2019, 02:13:25 AM »
I wonder what you consider the cellular towers every couple miles to be? GPS is not from sats, no no its from ground based positioning for the most part. Balloons and aircraft contribute. Don't be swallowed by fiction, embrace facts.
I live in Australia. Once you are away from the main cities and towns, there are LOTS of areas where there is zero mobile reception. Yet, GPS still works fine there. The same is true when you are on a ship in the middle of the ocean. It is clear that GPS works fine, even if there is no mobile service at all. Here's how I know this.

I have an off-line sat-nave app (HereWeGo) so that I can use GPS on my phone, wherever I am. I do not need on-line access to Google Maps (which would require mobile data access). I just need to make sure I have the necessary maps downloaded before I travel.

Now for the best part: you don't have to take my word for it. HereWeGo is free, and available for both Android and iPhone. Install it on your phone and download the map for your area (use WiFi for that, as the maps are big). Then take the SIM out of your phone, so that it cannot have access to mobile data, and you will see that HereWeGo still works (but it may warn you that it cannot check traffic info without mobile data).

As for "balloons and aircraft contribute", where are they? Are they all invisible? And are they absolutely everywhere? They would need to be to provide GPS at sea, in deserts - and in central Australia. Who is responsible for the upkeep and running of these huge flocks of craft? Where are they built and launched, in secret so we don't see it happening? Get real, mate.

Re: How does GPS work?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2019, 03:25:49 AM »
As for "balloons and aircraft contribute", where are they? Are they all invisible? And are they absolutely everywhere? They would need to be to provide GPS at sea, in deserts - and in central Australia. Who is responsible for the upkeep and running of these huge flocks of craft? Where are they built and launched, in secret so we don't see it happening? Get real, mate.
I just wanted to add... what about GPS-guided bombs? Did you know that's what the GPS system is even for? It was very nice of president Clinton (and Bush) to open it up for civilian use, but they put the system in place so America could bomb their enemies. So just think about that one. Is the American government floating these inviso-balloons over Russia, and Russia is just going along with it?

Re: How does GPS work?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2019, 08:04:34 AM »
In the interest of providing some possibilities I will give an option for the flat Earth.

What if, when rockets are shot up into the with satellites to go into orbit, they go up just as the rocket scientists think they do, but inside of going into an orbit around the globe shaped Earth, they fall into a circling overhead type path. This would be in the same sort of pattern that the sun and moon apparently travel in. If the sun and moon could do it, so could a satellite. Right?

I can't really think of how this would work in Geostationary Orbit. Maybe someone else can come up with that one.
It could be round or flat, but round has really been working out so much better for us.

Perhaps it would be better to say the Earth is "pointy".

Macarios

Re: How does GPS work?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2019, 09:43:43 AM »
GSM (cell towers) are in use as an aid to positioning system since 2004 when Qualcomm introduced Assisted GPS.
Assisted GPS is not GPS itself.

Here is  A brief history of GPS , by PC World.

Offline reer

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Re: How does GPS work?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2019, 09:53:46 AM »
In the interest of providing some possibilities I will give an option for the flat Earth.

What if, when rockets are shot up into the with satellites to go into orbit, they go up just as the rocket scientists think they do, but inside of going into an orbit around the globe shaped Earth, they fall into a circling overhead type path. This would be in the same sort of pattern that the sun and moon apparently travel in. If the sun and moon could do it, so could a satellite. Right?

I can't really think of how this would work in Geostationary Orbit. Maybe someone else can come up with that one.
That's the difference between FE and RE. In RE, we can calculate where those rockets are going, and why they stay up there. RE can even tell us why GSO works the way it does. The same goes for the sun and moon. In FE, all you can do is to say that "they float up there". What keeps them there, angels perhaps? And I assume that, as angels are supernatural, we can't calculate what they'll do next. Does that mean that RE theory has figured out what makes angels tick?

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: How does GPS work?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2019, 10:48:00 AM »
I wonder what you consider the cellular towers every couple miles to be? GPS is not from sats

Towers which form a cellular network for cellphones/mobile phones. Different purpose.

GPS devices show where they're getting reception from. All you need do is take a stand-alone GPS device to the vicinity of a cell tower, and video yourself and the device to the North, South, East and West of the tower, showing the display changing to correspond to your location and the location of the tower.

This is a similar method to the one I outlined to a YouTuber who indicated his neighbour's domestic TV satellite dish pointing in the direction of the tower 4 or 5 miles away, claiming the signal was coming from there.

I suggested all he need do was take a portable satellite setup to the vicinity of the tower, and again, go N, S, E, W, pointing the dish at the tower. If the signal was coming from there, he should get a clear signal from any direction. If a signal was received with the dish pointing away from the tower....

Any volunteers for some FE investigation with GPS devices and cell towers?   

« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 11:36:08 AM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

tellytubby

Re: How does GPS work?
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2019, 02:28:59 PM »
Quote
What if, when rockets are shot up into the with satellites to go into orbit, they go up just as the rocket scientists think they do, but inside of going into an orbit around the globe shaped Earth, they fall into a circling overhead type path.

Any sentence that starts with a 'What if...' is basically pure speculation.  There are a few others on here who will say (and rightfully) speculation without evidence does not really provide a basis for discussion. With evidence that can be verified, then you have something to talk about.

Another point which counteracts against the cell mast idea is that GPS data is corrected for relativity due to the relative motion between satellites and the 'observer'.  That is necessary to achieve the level of accuracy in positioning.  That wouldn't be needed of course if the signal was coming from a source locally on the ground which was static relative to the observer or receiver.  Any manufacturer of GPS receivers will tell you this.  It is no secret.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 02:35:33 PM by tellytubby »

Re: How does GPS work?
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2019, 07:31:29 AM »
Quote
What if, when rockets are shot up into the with satellites to go into orbit, they go up just as the rocket scientists think they do, but inside of going into an orbit around the globe shaped Earth, they fall into a circling overhead type path.

Any sentence that starts with a 'What if...' is basically pure speculation.  There are a few others on here who will say (and rightfully) speculation without evidence does not really provide a basis for discussion. With evidence that can be verified, then you have something to talk about.

Another point which counteracts against the cell mast idea is that GPS data is corrected for relativity due to the relative motion between satellites and the 'observer'.  That is necessary to achieve the level of accuracy in positioning.  That wouldn't be needed of course if the signal was coming from a source locally on the ground which was static relative to the observer or receiver.  Any manufacturer of GPS receivers will tell you this.  It is no secret.

Well I know it is speculation. No one else was coming forth with anything so I was trying to give something to start with. In my observation it is evident that satellites are exactly what they seem to be.

I don't know how any evidence would be provided of what the OP was asking for since they is no huge mass of balloons up there, or some such.
It could be round or flat, but round has really been working out so much better for us.

Perhaps it would be better to say the Earth is "pointy".

Re: How does GPS work?
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2019, 10:43:26 AM »

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Offline stack

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Re: How does GPS work?
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2019, 04:28:45 PM »
GPS theory on flat earth:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=79365.msg2175605#msg2175605

So GPS uses satellites on Flat Earth? They just don't work under the principles we think they work?

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: How does GPS work?
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2019, 07:06:49 PM »
I wonder what you consider the cellular towers every couple miles to be? GPS is not from sats, no no its from ground based positioning for the most part. Balloons and aircraft contribute. Don't be swallowed by fiction, embrace facts.

Balloons please.   Please provide prof of your claims.
Do you have a citation for this sweeping generalisation?