#### Tom Bishop

• Zetetic Council Member
• 8483
• Flat Earth Believer
##### Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2021, 06:21:52 PM »
On light bending, look into what Dr. Edward Dowdye has to say: https://sciencewoke.org/nasa-scientist-says-coronas-bend-light-not-gravity/

#### Tumeni

• 2651
##### Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2021, 06:28:17 PM »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### jimster

• 132
##### Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2021, 04:43:57 AM »
None of the above explains this, I will try to express the issue again.

/\
/  \

/    \                                                     _____
/      \______________________________\     /

I saw the top of the mountain and I saw the ocean between the boat and the shore. Where did the light rays from the shoreline (between them) go? Presumably, they follow parallel paths and remain between the mountain top rays and the ocean rays.

How could light rays from above them and below them reach me, but not the rays from the shore? It ain't distance, the mountain is behind the shore. Sure looked like the mountain was descending below the water.

This is the exact way it would appear with RE, but we are to prefer the explanation that requires unknown forces that you can't explain or demonstrate?

Tom Bishop, don't go away, that means you have no answer and the earth is round. You have to explain how the light rays disappear. Unknown forces? Conspiracy? Where are those light rays?

FE can't explain sharp cutoffs, everything in FE is gradual. No explanation for relatively quick transition of day to night, or the sharp cutoff of the sun as it rises and sets. FE has to do it with bending and distance, and those things are gradual. Explaining the sharp cutoffs requires light not to just bend, but to just disappear.

#### Tumeni

• 2651
##### Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2021, 07:07:51 AM »
On light bending, look into what Dr. Edward Dowdye has to say: https://sciencewoke.org/nasa-scientist-says-coronas-bend-light-not-gravity/

Is it agreed that Rowbottom asserted straight light rays?

=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### fisherman

• 198
##### Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2021, 05:05:43 PM »
On light bending, look into what Dr. Edward Dowdye has to say: https://sciencewoke.org/nasa-scientist-says-coronas-bend-light-not-gravity/

Quote
Therefore according to Dr. Dowdye, all the supposed gravitational lensing that scientists see is in reality, light passing through not empty space or space-time bending, but passing through mass and the mass in space is bending the light

The mass in space bends spacetime.  You can't separate the two concepts. If light moving through mass (not even sure how that could work) is what bends it, by definition it is moving through bent space time. Wherever there is mass, there is a bend in space time.

#### fisherman

• 198
##### Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2021, 05:38:42 PM »
Quote
I am one such "space skeptic/denier", and have concluded that not only is "space" complete fiction (and has its origins, indisputably, in that medium) but that it cannot exist in the reality we study.  It would violate many well established natural laws which have stood for centuries without contest.

Quote
I am one such "space skeptic/denier", and have concluded that not only is "space" complete fiction (and has its origins, indisputably, in that medium) but that it cannot exist in the reality we study.  It would violate many well established natural laws which have stood for centuries without contest.

Jack, if I understand your position correctly, you believe that space doesnâ€™t exist independent of the matter that it is in.  If all matter disappeared, then space would cease to exist?  Is that correct?

If so, Einstein spent the better part of 10 years trying to prove exactly that.  He struggled for 10 years to come up with field equations that make all  laws of physics work exactly the way the we observe even if there was no matter in space and space ceased to exist. He failed.  IOW, in order for the laws of physics, specifically the inertial motion of bodies to behave as we observe, space must exist as a separate physical entity.

Einsteinâ€™s field equations confirm this.  Where are you equations that contradict his?

#### RonJ

• 1421
• ACTA NON VERBA
##### Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2021, 02:24:30 AM »
On light bending, look into what Dr. Edward Dowdye has to say: https://sciencewoke.org/nasa-scientist-says-coronas-bend-light-not-gravity/
How could you believe anything that Dr. Edward Dowdye says?  He used to work for NASA.  Additionally, if you watch the video, he says that the Sun is millions of miles away from the earth, not 3000, as stated in the Wiki.  So, is Dr. Dowdye correct or is he spouting more nonsense as is typical of NASA minions? If you wish to have people believe in FET you have to be consistent in each and every little thing.
You can lead a flat earther to the curve but you can't make him think!

#### Tumeni

• 2651
##### Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2021, 11:36:33 AM »
On light bending, look into what Dr. Edward Dowdye has to say: https://sciencewoke.org/nasa-scientist-says-coronas-bend-light-not-gravity/

Is it agreed that Rowbottom asserted straight light rays?

IMG above

It strikes me that we have better optics available than in Rowbottom's day, and that the Wiki and ENAG Workshop could be updated with improved versions which don't rely on line drawings as proof.

Unless some enterprising zetecist has already done this ... ?
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### Flex

• 2
##### Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2021, 12:01:25 PM »
It is because of ocean waves that the distant views get block. On lakes you should be able to see far distances.

#### Tumeni

• 2651
##### Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2021, 01:26:02 PM »
It is because of ocean waves that the distant views get block. On lakes you should be able to see far distances.

Yes, but we're merely talking about observation of things like flags, islands, lighthouses etc. that we can see.

And we could observe over land and rivers, not just oceans.
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### AllAroundTheWorld

• 4274
##### Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2021, 04:01:06 PM »
It is because of ocean waves that the distant views get block. On lakes you should be able to see far distances.
No it isn't. Unless you're on the water's edge and lying down. Or there are really big waves. A wave can only occlude as much of a distant object as its own height if the viewer height is the same height as the waves, which it will be if you're standing up unless there's a particularly choppy sea.

And distant buildings are occluded when looking over large inland lakes too.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

#### Tumeni

• 2651
##### Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2021, 09:45:56 AM »
And we could observe over land and rivers, not just oceans.

Like this - the view over the Forth Estuary in Scotland. Ignore the green annotations; they were for another discussion elsewhere

The waves cannot be obscuring the tops of the bridge towers, for the tallest ones are 210m tall.
The waves cannot be obscuring the tops of the hills beyond. They are approx 400m tall.
The observer was at 210m elevation.

« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 10:07:12 AM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### scomato

• 64
##### Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2021, 02:30:13 PM »
It is because of ocean waves that the distant views get block. On lakes you should be able to see far distances.

Standing on one end of Lake Ontario you can see Toronto the other side. I believe this photo is taken from New York based on the angle.

Where did half the city go? Lake Ontario typically only has waves under 5 feet, up to 10-20 when it's stormy, so waves can't explain why the bottom half of the city skyline is missing from view.

#### WTF_Seriously

• 320
• When I grow up I wanna be like Pete
##### Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2021, 03:10:49 PM »
Just going to think out loud for a moment.

Been thinking about Scamato's horizon pic.  I know some of the thoughts of hidden horizon center around EA and bendy light so it got me thinking about how bendy light might actually work here.

We're all familiar with this image from the EA Wiki.

What's postulated and attempted to quantify with the EA equation is that the bend of light becomes steeper the further you are from the earth's surface.  This got me to thinking how this would affect how the horizon is viewed as one travels vertically from a given position.  Wouldn't EA cause the effect that as person rises in elevation that the angle at which they view the horizon actually becomes steeper?  Wouldn't this then cause the horizon to actually appear nearer that person.

For example. Consider a person standing at 3PM at an elevation where they see the horizon at 6PM on the 6PM curve in the EA picture.  Now move the 6PM horizon curve to what would be 7PM and change the observers elevation to meet that curve.  Wouldn't the observer now see the horizon while looking at a more downward angle which would give the appearance that the horizon has moved closer to them.  Of course there would be the question of whether or not the effect would even be observable at the range of which an observer could actually see.

Just thinking about how it might work.

Lol "Everyone is Wrong and LiEeInG"
That is a desperate argument from a losing position. An argument from a position of strength would have positive evidence for that position.