#### Izzie Troo

• 11
##### The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« on: July 19, 2021, 01:15:23 PM »
Hi all
I've now had several Flate Earth believers tell me that the ISS isn't real. so I decided to check it out for myself.

With the help of my brother-in-law (who lives 350 miles away) we both observed the ISS passing across the sky then used the angle of our observations to calculate the height. We came up with an approximate height of 232 miles. This is pretty close to the official figure of 220 miles.

I then decided to try and photograph it through a telescope. I took about 60 photographs and put them together into a gif. Here's the result.

https://ibb.co/xJVb5gx

Obviously, I can't prove for myself that there are astronauts onboard. But I have now proven to myself that the object that people call the ISS is real and that it travels above the earth at a height of about 220 miles.

So who should I believe?

1. A flat earther who tells me it doesn't exist
or
2. NASA

#### Pete Svarrior

• e
• Planar Moderator
• 15006
• And off we go | To play telephone | Sharing what we know | But how long can we keep playing | Until the game | Undermines the status quo?
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2021, 01:31:15 PM »
So who should I believe?

1. A flat earther who tells me it doesn't exist
or
2. NASA
Neither. You've already done the exact right thing - you asked a question and set out to perform your own observation and draw your own conclusion. If you're happy with your results, what else are you hoping to achieve by posting about it?

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#### Izzie Troo

• 11
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2021, 01:36:06 PM »

I guess I'm wondering why people doubt its existence when it's relatively easy to prove that it really does exist.

Doesn't that strike you as odd?

#### Pete Svarrior

• e
• Planar Moderator
• 15006
• And off we go | To play telephone | Sharing what we know | But how long can we keep playing | Until the game | Undermines the status quo?
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2021, 01:41:33 PM »
I guess I'm wondering why people doubt its existence when it's relatively easy to prove that it really does exist.
Personally, I haven't been able to establish much of a rapport with the people who claim the ISS doesn't exist. They tend to dismiss me as some sort of Illuminati government "shill", or whatever.

Doesn't that strike you as odd?
After spending as many years here as I have, it no longer strikes me as odd that very unreasonable people exist. We get FE'ers with borderline indefensible beliefs, and RE'ers who struggle to tell the difference between velocity and acceleration, and who yet still feel confident in debating physics. But I do understand where you're coming from.

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#### Izzie Troo

• 11
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2021, 10:59:08 PM »
Thanks for the insight, Pete
I came here hoping to engage in a conversation with some flat earthers, but that seems much harder than I thought it would.

But I will persevere

Cheers
Peter

#### Cypher9

• 109
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2021, 07:35:28 PM »
Thanks for the insight, Pete
I came here hoping to engage in a conversation with some flat earthers, but that seems much harder than I thought it would.

But I will persevere

Cheers
Peter

Where the ISS is concerned, yes there might be something up there flying around that we can see but are there astronauts in it, that's the question and the evidence from NASA to support the idea is so full of obvious chicanery it's hard to take their claim seriously.

#### JS

• 5
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2021, 12:15:27 PM »
Neither. You've already done the exact right thing - you asked a question and set out to perform your own observation and draw your own conclusion. If you're happy with your results, what else are you hoping to achieve by posting about it?

Unless people think that two opposing theories (the earth is flat vs. the earth is round) can be true at the same time, such an observation is a good test for which of the two alternatives can possibly be true.

This can be done by simply looking at the explanations given by both theories for how the observation is possible, what it shows, how to predict when and where such an observation is possible etc.
The explanation given by RE theorists is clear: we know the orbit of ISS around the Earth, hence we can exactly predict where on earth it will be visible when and at which point of the sky.

For FE theory to not get immediately falsified, it would be necessary for FE theorists to come up with a theory that at least gives the same detail of explanations and testable predictions. So I guess the real question is: does FE theory provide such a theory for the ISS, or for how any kind of satellite works?

#### J-Man

• 1107
• "Let's go Brandon ! I agree" >Your President<
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2021, 04:17:03 PM »
Neither. You've already done the exact right thing - you asked a question and set out to perform your own observation and draw your own conclusion. If you're happy with your results, what else are you hoping to achieve by posting about it?

Unless people think that two opposing theories (the earth is flat vs. the earth is round) can be true at the same time, such an observation is a good test for which of the two alternatives can possibly be true.

This can be done by simply looking at the explanations given by both theories for how the observation is possible, what it shows, how to predict when and where such an observation is possible etc.
The explanation given by RE theorists is clear: we know the orbit of ISS around the Earth, hence we can exactly predict where on earth it will be visible when and at which point of the sky.

For FE theory to not get immediately falsified, it would be necessary for FE theorists to come up with a theory that at least gives the same detail of explanations and testable predictions. So I guess the real question is: does FE theory provide such a theory for the ISS, or for how any kind of satellite works?

Chemtrails have been existing for 40-50 years, here seen

They serve many purposes with there metallic base. Radar, GPS made easy as captured in the dome. Ability to project pictures against a solid background ie ISS or UFO's etc. Maybe even the devil will hologram a fake Jesus's return from the east in the sky?  Son there is no SPACE as you know it. NO ISS, NO Satellites, No mask will stop germs unless its a full blown respirator type. Eyes wide shut is what you acquired.
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

#### JayMc

• 1
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2021, 05:11:01 PM »
Those are some great photos but what do they prove? They, alone, cannot prove that the ISS is a real "spaceship" with people onboard nor can it prove that the earth is a globe.

The ISS could easily be a hologram. As far back as 1994, the U.S. Air Force launched a hologram program which could do amazing things. http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?us_military_general_topic_areas=us_military_weaponizationOfSpace&timeline=us_military_tmln. If you can't find the article there, go to archive.org and look it up.

Also, what if it is real? Scientists are telling us now that the atmosphere goes over 400 miles into space. Unfortunately, you can't believe anything they say but if that is true and the moon is roughly 227,000 miles from earth, then it is still within our atmosphere and well within the dome/firmament as we have said for years. The ISS can stay above the earth by orbiting fast enough, just like a rock tied to the end of a string. If you spin it round and round fast enough, it won't fall to the ground.

Whether you believe the ISS is real or not, it makes no difference to the Flat Earth argument.

JayMc
http://www.JayMc.com/FlatEarth - The World's Premier Website for Flat Earth Truth

#### Iceman

• 1780
• where there's smoke there's wires
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2021, 05:35:20 PM »
The ISS can stay above the earth by orbiting fast enough, just like a rock tied to the end of a string. If you spin it round and round fast enough, it won't fall to the ground.

Can you elaborate on that? Is Earth moving or stationary? How does that model work if the earth is moving through space? If I hold a rock and string above my head and spin it fast enough, itll absolutely stay put...but if I jump while doing that, I'm going to have a problem. What force is represented by the string?

#### J-Man

• 1107
• "Let's go Brandon ! I agree" >Your President<
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2021, 07:18:27 PM »
jaymc

was browsing your website, some good stuff. I had a light bulb moment on this one..Never thought about it that way. Earth rising on horizon from sea of tranquility.

You kinda lost me though on we did land on moon??? really
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

#### GoldCashew

• 1005
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2021, 01:11:59 PM »
Those are some great photos but what do they prove? They, alone, cannot prove that the ISS is a real "spaceship" with people onboard nor can it prove that the earth is a globe.

The ISS could easily be a hologram. As far back as 1994, the U.S. Air Force launched a hologram program which could do amazing things. http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?us_military_general_topic_areas=us_military_weaponizationOfSpace&timeline=us_military_tmln. If you can't find the article there, go to archive.org and look it up.

Also, what if it is real? Scientists are telling us now that the atmosphere goes over 400 miles into space. Unfortunately, you can't believe anything they say but if that is true and the moon is roughly 227,000 miles from earth, then it is still within our atmosphere and well within the dome/firmament as we have said for years. The ISS can stay above the earth by orbiting fast enough, just like a rock tied to the end of a string. If you spin it round and round fast enough, it won't fall to the ground.

Whether you believe the ISS is real or not, it makes no difference to the Flat Earth argument.

JayMc
http://www.JayMc.com/FlatEarth - The World's Premier Website for Flat Earth Truth

On the notion that the ISS could easily be a hologram from NASA: challenging this, what would be the specific things that would have to happen to make this work seamlessly? If a hologram, than would NASA need to have a wide network of hologram stations all throughout the world, synchronized perfectly together so that when one hologram projection "runs out" of sky the next one picks up where it left off? Could a single hologram station project an ISS into the total sky of a flat earth or would multiple hologram stations be needed? If multiple hologram stations, where are they located and are there any pictures of them?

On the notion that the ISS is still within our atmosphere and can stay above the earth by orbiting fast enough: if within our atmosphere, than there would be some atmospheric drag/friction imparted on the ISS. This drag would cause the ISS to lose speed over time and eventually fall back down to earth. If the ISS is still within our atmosphere than what is keeping it's speed up at a constant rate to overcome atmospheric drag? If rocket engines on the ISS are keeping it moving at a constant rate, than the rocket engines would need to be continuously working for decades without fail or let up and with the necessary fuel to keep them burning.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2021, 02:41:01 PM by GoldCashew »

#### Tumeni

• 3024
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2021, 04:54:13 PM »
Those are some great photos but what do they prove? They, alone, cannot prove that the ISS is a real "spaceship" with people onboard ...

So ... the natural thing to do is consider the other evidence apart from the photos, surely?

The videos of spacewalks and other activities.
Photos of it in transit over the Moon
Personal observations of it from the surface of the Earth, sometimes twice in one evening
Personal accounts from both professional astronauts and private travellers who paid handsomely for the chance to go there
etc
etc

url=http://www.JayMc.com/FlatEarth]http://www.JayMc.com/FlatEarth[/url] - The World's Premier Website for Flat Earth Truth

« Last Edit: September 04, 2021, 05:05:30 PM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### SteelyBob

• 691
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2021, 09:06:19 AM »
The ISS can stay above the earth by orbiting fast enough, just like a rock tied to the end of a string. If you spin it round and round fast enough, it won't fall to the ground.

JayMc
http://www.JayMc.com/FlatEarth - The World's Premier Website for Flat Earth Truth

That is just plain wrong. A rock on a string spun in a horizontal circle doesn’t fall to the ground for the same reason that a rock on a string hanging at rest doesn’t fall to the ground - the string. If you took a snapshot of the rock and the string you would see that the string, even if it looks horizontal, is actually at an angle. If you measured the tension in the string and resolved to find the vertical component of the tension you find that it equalled the weight of the rock, exactly the same as the rock at rest hanging vertically. The faster you spin the string, the steeper the angle, just like a motorbike cornering, or an aircraft banking into a turn - the vertical component always equals the weight if the vertical acceleration is zero.

For the ISS to remain in ‘orbit’ above a flat earth, you would still need something holding it up there - the string, if you like. Aircraft do it by having wings - the ISS clearly isn’t a lifting body, and even if it was, it clearly doesn’t have the propulsion necessary to overcome the drag that generating lift causes.

You also have the problem that the ISS isn’t moving in a circle, if you plot its path on any of the FE maps - both its speed and its flight path change. This is of course nonsensical, as the ISS’s observed speed and flight path from ground is constant, which is hardly surprising given that it is essentially ballistic - it ain’t changing.

As for the holograms…that’s just plain fanciful. Are we really suggesting there is some massive team of people somewhere who’s job it is to project holograms of all the satellites, remembering it’s not just the ISS, onto the ‘dome’? And they presumably also have to fake all the comms as well? Did NASA establish them as soon as the Russians launched Sputnik, so that all the amateur radio enthusiasts could hear Sputnik’s signal at the right time?

#### ichoosereality

• 213
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2021, 01:36:54 AM »
Son there is no SPACE as you know it. NO ISS, NO Satellites, No mask will stop germs unless its a full blown respirator type.
Just noticed this bit of gibberish .  Others can/are responding to the FE nonsense, so I'll just touch on the mask misinformation.
It is true that only a full blown respirator can "stop" (as in prevent with 100% certainty) respiratory transmission of disease.  But that
is also largely irrelevant to the issues around mask wearing during the pandemic since the purpose of wearing a surgical mask in public
during a pandemic where the disease is largely airborne is exactly the same as why medical staff wear them during surgery.  That is to
reduce the likelihood of transmission (from the mask wearer to someone nearby as they inhale for the general case or from the medical
staff breathing out towards/into the open wound in the surgical case), not to prevent it with 100% certainty.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 10:37:00 PM by ichoosereality »
If "bendy light" were real the spot shape and power output of large solid-state lasers would vary depending on their orientation relative to the surface of the earth, but this is not observed thus bendy light is not real.

#### Trillion

##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2021, 04:37:36 PM »
@ Izzie Troo

You have essentially verified the existence of the ISS using your own observations. With the help of your brother-in-law you have self-verified the stated height and your own images show you what is obviously the ISS. So you have all the evidence you need surely so you don't have to rely on 'belief' any more.

I have also taken my own images of the ISS so I don't need anyone else to tell me whether it exists or not. When you can look up predicted passes of the ISS for your location and aim a telescope in advance so it pointed towards a particular point on the sky the ISS is going to pass though and then I can watch the pass at the exact position and time predicted, that is evidence enough for me!
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 05:01:05 PM by Trillion »

#### CathInfo

• 5
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2021, 09:08:49 AM »
@ Izzie Troo

You have essentially verified the existence of the ISS using your own observations. With the help of your brother-in-law you have self-verified the stated height and your own images show you what is obviously the ISS. So you have all the evidence you need surely so you don't have to rely on 'belief' any more.

I have also taken my own images of the ISS so I don't need anyone else to tell me whether it exists or not. When you can look up predicted passes of the ISS for your location and aim a telescope in advance so it pointed towards a particular point on the sky the ISS is going to pass though and then I can watch the pass at the exact position and time predicted, that is evidence enough for me!

Ok, so the ISS exists.

Meanwhile, the hundreds of tests done with P900 and P1000 zoom cameras showing that we can see TOO FAR for the globe earth model to be true.

And NASA has been caught lying on DOZENS of occasions, we have video and other proof.

So just listing those things, we have Flat Earth 2, Globetards 1.

Not being able to explain something (yet) doesn't invalidate a theory -- which has plenty of other proofs for it.

#### AllAroundTheWorld

• 5820
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2021, 09:18:19 AM »
Meanwhile, the hundreds of tests done with P900 and P1000 zoom cameras showing that we can see TOO FAR for the globe earth model to be true.
We can see TOO FAR for the globe earth model where earth is a perfect sphere and has no atmosphere.
But it isn't, and it does. So...
All the videos I've seen of these so-called FE proofs have been people getting their maths wrong, not accounting for refraction properly or simply misidentifying distant landmarks.
Is there any peer reviewed paper you can point me to with such observations?
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

#### SteelyBob

• 691
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2021, 09:48:36 AM »
@ Izzie Troo

You have essentially verified the existence of the ISS using your own observations. With the help of your brother-in-law you have self-verified the stated height and your own images show you what is obviously the ISS. So you have all the evidence you need surely so you don't have to rely on 'belief' any more.

I have also taken my own images of the ISS so I don't need anyone else to tell me whether it exists or not. When you can look up predicted passes of the ISS for your location and aim a telescope in advance so it pointed towards a particular point on the sky the ISS is going to pass though and then I can watch the pass at the exact position and time predicted, that is evidence enough for me!

Ok, so the ISS exists.

Meanwhile, the hundreds of tests done with P900 and P1000 zoom cameras showing that we can see TOO FAR for the globe earth model to be true.

And NASA has been caught lying on DOZENS of occasions, we have video and other proof.

So just listing those things, we have Flat Earth 2, Globetards 1.

Not being able to explain something (yet) doesn't invalidate a theory -- which has plenty of other proofs for it.

The problem is that your shaky zoom camera videos are invariably science garbage - as AATW says, aside from basic errors, they never account for refraction, which is an essential part of the equation.

The ISS, however, exists (as you have conceded), and you can see it yourself. If you track its path, it only makes sense if the world is globe shaped. If the earth is flat, what is holding the ISS up there? What is powering it? How is it steering?

#### drand48

• 47
##### Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2021, 08:06:26 PM »

... we have Flat Earth 2, Globetards 1.
Just FYI, using terms like that reduces your credibility more than it does those you intend to insult.  It shows that you're using emotions rather than logic, for one thing.  If you'd said "Flattards 2, Globetards 1" we could take it as a joke.