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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #840 on: March 17, 2022, 10:15:17 AM »
As they should, democrats are in power so it's up to them to do something.

Don't worry. The Democrats are hard at work fixing the gas crisis.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-democrats-biden-declare-climate-emergency-ban-oil-drilling-federal-lands


Wow. Fox got it from Politico, who got it from... a DRAFT report. Not the final version. From a work in progress.

So the story is true then. Thanks for verifying it for us.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #841 on: March 17, 2022, 10:48:06 AM »
So the story is true then. Thanks for verifying it for us.

The story fails to match the headline. All that can be said is that SOME of the House Dems put this into a report which has not yet been finalised nor published. The matter is still under discussion within the House Dems. It only becomes overall House Dem policy when published finally.

You agree, surely, that sometimes content of a DRAFT report does not make its way into the FINAL report?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2022, 10:51:31 AM by Tumeni »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #842 on: March 17, 2022, 11:10:26 AM »
The story fails to match the headline.

Actually the Politico source has the same headline - House liberals to urge Biden to declare climate emergency, ban drilling on federal lands

You agree, surely, that sometimes content of a DRAFT report does not make its way into the FINAL report?

I think the fact that those ideas exited their brain is a more important point than whether the paper is a draft or final.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #843 on: March 17, 2022, 11:32:37 AM »
Oh, the horror, the evil of it.

Dems want to do something to safeguard the Earth.

Meanwhile, all the Repugnicans want to do is pass legislation that hurts people and makes people suffer. Death penalty for participation in abortion. Felony for parents to seek therapy help for trans children, AND a felony to leave the state to seek same. 
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Offline honk

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #844 on: March 17, 2022, 07:01:43 PM »
You know, there is a link in the article to the poll itself. You can actually read it instead of guessing at what nefariously biased questions it asks.  ::)

Interesting how you're assuming that I'm assuming. I did read the poll, and even if it were a perfectly sensible, objective poll, there still would be no reason for the authors to describe its findings using right-wing snarl terms like "identity politics" or casually present the misinformation their respondents expressed belief in as fact. But of course the poll is neither sensible nor objective. To look at just a couple of questions here:

Quote
Please indicate if you agree or disagree with the following statement.

Joe Biden and Democrats in Congress are out of touch with hardworking Americans. They have been so focused on catering to the far-left wing of the party that they’re ignoring Americans’ day to day concerns, such as addressing the rising prices for goods and gasoline and combatting violent crime.

This question is ludicrously loaded. Good, reputable polls don't just blatantly spell out a narrative using this kind of partisan language and somehow maintain their neutrality by simply including the option to disagree. The question also takes it for granted that "catering to the far-left wing of the party" is a negative - the respondent is only asked if it's what they think Biden is doing, not if they think that Biden doing it is good or bad.

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Do you think President Biden and the Democratic Party should move more to the left and embrace more liberal policies, move more to the center and embrace more moderate policies, or do you think President Biden and the Democratic Party should stay where it is right now?

This question, meanwhile, indicates their expected answer to the previous question, because here they are taking it for granted that Biden and the Democrats are already on the left, a claim that, regardless of anyone's opinions of the merits of being on the left, is objectively just untrue. Biden is not a leftist, he is a centrist, and there's no indication that more left-leaning Democrats have any real influence over his agenda or the party's as a whole. The notion that the Democratic Party as a whole is trending far to the left is yet another right-wing lie that conservatives are repeating as much as possible to gaslight the rest of the country into thinking that Democrats should in the interests of fairness move further to the right. And no matter how many concessions Democrats make or compromises they offer, Republicans continue to drift further and further into extremism while their stooges in the media keep up the chorus of how Democrats are so unfairly devoted to the left. This poll/article is just another example of that. Don't fall for it.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2022, 04:24:03 PM by honk »
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Offline Roundy

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #845 on: March 17, 2022, 08:15:57 PM »
You know, there is a link in the article to the poll itself. You can actually read it instead of guessing at what nefariously biased questions it asks.  ::)

Interesting how you're assuming that I'm assuming. I did read the poll, and even if it were a perfectly sensible, objective poll, there still would be no reason for the authors to describe its findings using right-wing snarl terms like "identity politics" or casually present the misinformation their respondents expressed belief in as fact. But of course the poll is neither sensible nor objective. To look at just a couple of questions here:

Quote
Please indicate if you agree or disagree with the following statement.

Joe Biden and Democrats in Congress are out of touch with hardworking Americans. They have been so focused on catering to the far-left wing of the party that they’re ignoring Americans’ day to day concerns, such as addressing the rising prices for goods and gasoline and combatting violent crime.

This question is ludicrously loaded. Good, reputable polls don't just blatantly spell out a narrative using this kind of partisan language and somehow maintain their neutrality by simply including the option to disagree. The question also takes it for granted that "catering to the far-left wing of the party" is a negative - the respondent is only asked if it's what they think Biden is doing, not if they think that Biden doing it is good or bad.

Quote
Do you think President Biden and the Democratic Party should move more to the left and embrace more liberal policies, move more to the center and embrace more moderate policies, or do you think President Biden and the Democratic Party should stay where it is right now?

This question, meanwhile, indicates their expected answer to the previous question, because here they are taking it for granted that Biden and the Democrats are already on the left, a claim that, regardless of anyone's opinions of the merits of being on the left, is objectively just untrue. Biden is not a leftist, he is a centrist, and there's no indication that more left-leaning Democrats has any real influence over his agenda or the party's as a whole. The notion that the Democratic Party as a whole is trending far to the left is yet another right-wing lie that conservatives are repeating as much as possible to gaslight the rest of the country into thinking that Democrats should in the interests of fairness move further to the right. And no matter how many concessions Democrats make or compromises they offer, Republicans continue to drift further and further into extremism while their stooges in the media keep up the chorus of how Democrats are so unfairly devoted to the left. This poll/article is just another example of that. Don't fall for it.

I feel like if your point was really valid you wouldn't have had to make up an obviously far more biased and ridiculous question to try to make it. Obviously there are no questions like the one you used as an "example" in the post of yours I initially quoted. I didn't assume anything; you clearly didn't read the poll; because if you had, and the examples you cite above that actually do appear in the poll really served as examples of your point, you wouldn't have felt it necessary to make one up.

I also don't recall the phrase "identity politics" actually showing up in the poll. I used it, to illustrate my point, independent of what the poll actually said. If you think the party whose current leader once opined on a popular nationally syndicated radio show "If you're not voting for me, you ain't black!" doesn't engage in identity politics, you're delusional.

But anyway, I was glad to see that you at least attempted to rationalize your ridiculous post, even if you did fail spectacularly at doing so.

You should probably stick to analyzing the capeshit movies rather than politics. You're obviously much more comfortable dealing with fiction than reality.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2022, 08:17:49 PM by Roundy »
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline honk

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #846 on: March 17, 2022, 10:03:13 PM »
I feel like if your point was really valid you wouldn't have had to make up an obviously far more biased and ridiculous question to try to make it. Obviously there are no questions like the one you used as an "example" in the post of yours I initially quoted. I didn't assume anything; you clearly didn't read the poll; because if you had, and the examples you cite above that actually do appear in the poll really served as examples of your point, you wouldn't have felt it necessary to make one up.

You've misunderstood my point. I wasn't criticizing the poll for asking biased questions, but for presenting misinformation and right-wing talking points as objective fact. Asking if white kids should be taught to hate themselves isn't even a biased question, so I would hardly have used that as a faux-example of the poll asking biased questions. You've conflated two related but different points - one being that the poll launders misinformation by including it among its questions, and the other being that the poll asks biased, loaded questions to get the responses the pollsters want. I only criticized the latter point in my second post because it looked like you wanted me to.

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I also don't recall the phrase "identity politics" actually showing up in the poll. I used it, to illustrate my point, independent of what the poll actually said.

It isn't in the poll, but it is in the article. I'm inclined to believe that was what put the term in your head to begin with.

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If you think the party whose current leader once opined on a popular nationally syndicated radio show "If you're not voting for me, you ain't black!" doesn't engage in identity politics, you're delusional.

Irrelevant. I'm not talking about engaging in identity politics, but specifically using the term "identity politics." Because it's a snarl term. It carries a negative connotation, and almost every time it's used nowadays, it's by a conservative who's bashing progressives or progressive ideals. It's a major red flag, same as it would have been if they had used a term like "SJW."

Quote
But anyway, I was glad to see that you at least attempted to rationalize your ridiculous post, even if you did fail spectacularly at doing so.

You should probably stick to analyzing the capeshit movies rather than politics. You're obviously much more comfortable dealing with fiction than reality.

You don't need to get mad at me just because I recognized that these shitty pollsters were a bunch of right-wing concern trolls and you didn't. Work on your critical thinking skills - analyzing capeshit movies is good practice - and you'll reach my level soon enough.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2022, 03:26:03 AM by honk »
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Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #847 on: March 18, 2022, 10:59:45 AM »
Irrelevant. I'm not talking about engaging in identity politics, but specifically using the term "identity politics." Because it's a snarl term. It carries a negative connotation, and almost every time it's used nowadays, it's by a conservative who's bashing progressives or progressive ideals. It's a major red flag, same as it would have been if they had used a term like "SJW."
Describe "identity politics," in a positive fashion.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline honk

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #848 on: March 18, 2022, 10:50:43 PM »
A more positive spin on the concept is simply that it's people supporting laws, policies, or agendas that they feel benefit or protect those of the group or class of people which they identify with or belong to. Politicians of both parties have for decades made explicit calls for the support of members of various groups or classes, insisting that their election will be the best outcome for people of that group or class in particular. It's hardly a phenomenon unique to Democrats.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #849 on: March 28, 2022, 08:56:46 PM »
Why is the Biden allowing billionaires to pay staff in the White House science office?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10661039/Google-billionaire-Eric-Schmidt-PAID-salaries-staff-inside-Bidens-science-office.html



The science office actively arranged payment from Schmidt Futures.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2022, 09:22:22 PM by Tom Bishop »

Rama Set

Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #850 on: March 29, 2022, 12:11:59 AM »
Why is the Biden allowing billionaires to pay staff in the White House science office?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10661039/Google-billionaire-Eric-Schmidt-PAID-salaries-staff-inside-Bidens-science-office.html



The science office actively arranged payment from Schmidt Futures.



Because it’s America and you guys love this shit. Remember when Louis Dejoy donated $700k to Trump and then immediately got a job as postmaster general? This kind of stuff happens everywhere, all the time in the USA.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #851 on: March 29, 2022, 12:28:45 AM »
Because it’s America and you guys love this shit. Remember when Louis Dejoy donated $700k to Trump and then immediately got a job as postmaster general? This kind of stuff happens everywhere, all the time in the USA.

Ah yes, the classic liberal "yes he is corrupt and I don't care" defense.  ::)

Rama Set

Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #852 on: March 29, 2022, 08:24:48 AM »
Because it’s America and you guys love this shit. Remember when Louis Dejoy donated $700k to Trump and then immediately got a job as postmaster general? This kind of stuff happens everywhere, all the time in the USA.

Ah yes, the classic liberal "yes he is corrupt and I don't care" defense.  ::)



Only one of us has mentioned not caring and it's not me.

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Offline WTF_Seriously

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #853 on: March 29, 2022, 05:13:35 PM »
Because it’s America and you guys love this shit. Remember when Louis Dejoy donated $700k to Trump and then immediately got a job as postmaster general? This kind of stuff happens everywhere, all the time in the USA.

Ah yes, the classic liberal "yes he is corrupt and I don't care" defense.  ::)

Imagine unironically thinking this is strictly a liberal affliction.
I hope you understand we're maintaining a valuable resource here....

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #854 on: April 02, 2022, 09:21:47 PM »
I wonder if Joe thinks Michelle Obama was Vice President or his wife was.


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Offline Tumeni

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #855 on: April 02, 2022, 09:54:26 PM »
I wonder if Joe thinks Michelle Obama was Vice President or his wife was.

Is that minor slip really what you think is of importance at the moment?
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Offline honk

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #856 on: April 02, 2022, 11:16:22 PM »
Who cares? Criticize something that actually matters.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #857 on: April 03, 2022, 05:20:53 PM »
I wonder if Joe thinks Michelle Obama was Vice President or his wife was.

Is that minor slip really what you think is of importance at the moment?

His "flubs" are so rampant that Wall Street Journal editors are writing opinion articles pleading with him publicly to avoid speaking. Yes, the coherency of the US President is important.

https://archive.ph/ucDqf

« Last Edit: April 03, 2022, 05:23:26 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #858 on: April 03, 2022, 06:06:40 PM »
A WSJ Opinion piece? I see your cherrypick and raise you...

From the WSJ Opinion section:

Biden Will Make America Lead Again
If we remain indifferent to our role in the world, if we retreat from our obligation to our citizens and our allies and if we fail to choose the right leader, then we will pay the highest price for our neglect and shortsightedness.

I voted for Joe Biden.


Now see how little opinion pieces matter?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #859 on: April 03, 2022, 06:26:27 PM »
Actually, it's not possible to state that Joe Biden should stop speaking without it being an opinion. All narratives, interpretations, suggestions, and insights are opinions. The criticism of "that's an opinion!" is terrible and childish. No effort to show that the author is wrong at all.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2022, 06:30:55 PM by Tom Bishop »