Ghost of V

Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2014, 08:34:33 AM »
Also, there is a new season 8 trailer. Featuring real footage this time.


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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2014, 12:44:11 PM »
I think it would be great if they just skipped the hunt for Gallirey and jumped right into it. Make Gallirey the new hub of the show. I would like to see the Doctor interacting with his own species for once, not counting River Song because she sucks. It would also be a great excuse to bring back characters from the original series. Maybe bridging the generation gap among fans.

I think the series has a lot of potential now, it's just a matter of where the writers are going to take it. Judging by Moffat's track record it will probably be a train wreck.
Gallifrey was never a big part of the series.  Even before the 2005 version The Doctor only had a few arcs involving other time lords (minus the master). 
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Ghost of V

Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2014, 05:00:48 PM »
I think it would be great if they just skipped the hunt for Gallirey and jumped right into it. Make Gallirey the new hub of the show. I would like to see the Doctor interacting with his own species for once, not counting River Song because she sucks. It would also be a great excuse to bring back characters from the original series. Maybe bridging the generation gap among fans.

I think the series has a lot of potential now, it's just a matter of where the writers are going to take it. Judging by Moffat's track record it will probably be a train wreck.
Gallifrey was never a big part of the series.  Even before the 2005 version The Doctor only had a few arcs involving other time lords (minus the master).

You're right, but it would still be neat to see the Doctor among his people in at least a few episodes. The Doctor used to interact with Timelords a lot, especially during the Tom Baker-era when Romana (a timelord) was traveling with him. Not to mention the first Doctor's 'granddaughter', and The Trial of a Time Lord serial. I'm sure there's more, but that's as much as I've seen featuring other Timelords or Gallifrey in the older series (not counting the Master).

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2014, 05:10:57 PM »
I think it would be great if they just skipped the hunt for Gallirey and jumped right into it. Make Gallirey the new hub of the show. I would like to see the Doctor interacting with his own species for once, not counting River Song because she sucks. It would also be a great excuse to bring back characters from the original series. Maybe bridging the generation gap among fans.

I think the series has a lot of potential now, it's just a matter of where the writers are going to take it. Judging by Moffat's track record it will probably be a train wreck.
Gallifrey was never a big part of the series.  Even before the 2005 version The Doctor only had a few arcs involving other time lords (minus the master).

Hmm, As I recall, he was made to regenerate from 2 to 3 by the timelords, sentenced to exile on Earth (totes not 4 budget reesons!!) ordered to destroy or halt the early Daleks by the timelords, he was thrown together with himself in the 3 and 5 doctors by the timelords, one of 4th's arcs involved the assassination attempt of the timelord president, the doctor BECOMES the timelord president, he's put on trial by the time lords, he had a timelord travel with him for a bit, there were various pieces of old timelord tech which were important macguffins (The 'x' of Rassilon, usually)

I don't wan to see him spending too much time on Gallifrey - one or two stories about political intrigue, scandal and power would be fun, but I'd rather move away from the 'arc' format of previous seasons.

Ghost of V

Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2014, 05:28:51 PM »
I don't wan to see him spending too much time on Gallifrey - one or two stories about political intrigue, scandal and power would be fun, but I'd rather move away from the 'arc' format of previous seasons.

I like overarching storylines that cover an entire season, but Moffat doesn't know how write them well.

Russel T. Davies did a good job at it. He kept the series episodic, almost "monster of the week", but dropped subtle hints throughout that there was an overarching thing going on, which usually came to light during the final two episodes.

Moffat attempts to do the same thing, but takes his writing too seriously and makes many of the one-off episodes seem unimportant in the shadow of the overarching story. I think that Matt Smith's 2nd season is the biggest culprit here: The Impossible Astronaut arc, combined with the Silence, and the "Good man Demon's Run" BS made the season too cluttered and turned seemingly-serious incidents into laughable sidequests. I can't even pick a decent episode out of the 13 that created Series 6... maybe The Doctor's Wife or Closing Time?

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Offline rooster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2014, 05:55:51 PM »
I'm just glad they got an older guy. The constant sexual tension between the Doctor and his companion was getting pretty annoying.

Ghost of V

Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2014, 06:05:08 PM »
I'm just glad they got an older guy. The constant sexual tension between the Doctor and his companion was getting pretty annoying.

I agree. I felt like the sexual tension between the Doctor and the Doctor's companions was inappropriate. The Doctor is an old alien. Amy, Martha, and Rose are like infants compared to the Doctor. It makes no sense that he would be even remotely attracted to any of them. I'm looking mostly at Rose.

When they tried to introduce a real sexual companion for the Doctor it just ended up feeling cheap and stupid, and it actually hurt the Doctor's character imo. Why does the Doctor care so much about River Song? Is it because she's part timelord? If so, why was this never touched on in the show? It seems like The Doctor is just supposed to be in love with River Song to add complexity to the plot, nothing more.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2014, 06:12:14 PM »
When they tried to introduce a real sexual companion for the Doctor it just ended up feeling cheap and stupid, and it actually hurt the Doctor's character imo. Why does the Doctor care so much about River Song? Is it because she's part timelord? If so, why was this never touched on in the show? It seems like The Doctor is just supposed to be in love with River Song to add complexity to the plot, nothing more.
I mean, they are almost the same person. Always on the run and cheeky. Plus, maybe the added knowledge of knowing they have a future together kind of forced his feelings for her.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2014, 07:11:48 PM »
When they tried to introduce a real sexual companion for the Doctor it just ended up feeling cheap and stupid, and it actually hurt the Doctor's character imo. Why does the Doctor care so much about River Song? Is it because she's part timelord? If so, why was this never touched on in the show? It seems like The Doctor is just supposed to be in love with River Song to add complexity to the plot, nothing more.
Actually, River Song was more in love with The Doctor than the other way around.  Something about how they keep meeting in different parts of their respective timelines so that their relationship more or less ran in opposite directions. 
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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2014, 07:31:41 PM »
In general I'm in the "Doctor Who needs to end" camp. Anyway... Eccleston's Doctor was a three dimensional character who used his brain to solve problems. His actions actually had consequences throughout the series, which had a continuity that was complex yet still made sense. Tennant's Doctor was gradually reduced to nothing more than a costume and a few catchphrases, and his stories basically rely on their own extreme convolutedness in the context of the greater continuity (which is practically non-existent at this point) to justify the use of deus ex machina in the form of either the Doctor's powers or features of the Tardis, neither of which are ever brought up again. What little I have seen of Smith's series reminds me of Tennant but with worse stories, worse characters, worse special effects and more of that annoying River Song idiot.

Ghost of V

Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2014, 07:35:03 PM »
When they tried to introduce a real sexual companion for the Doctor it just ended up feeling cheap and stupid, and it actually hurt the Doctor's character imo. Why does the Doctor care so much about River Song? Is it because she's part timelord? If so, why was this never touched on in the show? It seems like The Doctor is just supposed to be in love with River Song to add complexity to the plot, nothing more.
Actually, River Song was more in love with The Doctor than the other way around.  Something about how they keep meeting in different parts of their respective timelines so that their relationship more or less ran in opposite directions.

Yes, but the Doctor constantly visited River Song in prison and went on many off-screen adventures with her. Meaning the Doctor cares for and loves River Song. The reasons why their relationship is so strong were never really touched upon. If the Doctor didn't share similar feelings, why did he constantly go on private adventures with her and save her life numerous times? I feel like we are missing crucial development points in their relationship. Maybe this was done intentionally?

In general I'm in the "Doctor Who needs to end" camp. Anyway... Eccleston's Doctor was a three dimensional character who used his brain to solve problems. His actions actually had consequences throughout the series, which had a continuity that was complex yet still made sense. Tennant's Doctor was gradually reduced to nothing more than a costume and a few catchphrases, and his stories basically rely on their own extreme convolutedness in the context of the greater continuity (which is practically non-existent at this point) to justify the use of deus ex machina in the form of either the Doctor's powers or features of the Tardis, neither of which are ever brought up again. What little I have seen of Smith's series reminds me of Tennant but with worse stories, worse characters, worse special effects and more of that annoying River Song idiot.

Sounds like you have a dissenting opinion just to sound cool, and its obvious you haven't really watched the show in depth. Your point about "Tardis deus ex machina" happened numerous times in Eccleston's run. Did you forget about the Bad Wolf? Bad Wolf was text book deus ex.

Also, Tennant made more mistakes and had more negative consequences for his actions than Eccleston. For example, the 10th Doctor deposed Harriet Jones which directly caused the rise of Harold Saxon (The Master), who later went on to enslave Earth. That's a pretty negative consequence to me.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 07:40:02 PM by Vauxhall »

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Offline markjo

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2014, 07:41:25 PM »
When they tried to introduce a real sexual companion for the Doctor it just ended up feeling cheap and stupid, and it actually hurt the Doctor's character imo. Why does the Doctor care so much about River Song? Is it because she's part timelord? If so, why was this never touched on in the show? It seems like The Doctor is just supposed to be in love with River Song to add complexity to the plot, nothing more.
Actually, River Song was more in love with The Doctor than the other way around.  Something about how they keep meeting in different parts of their respective timelines so that their relationship more or less ran in opposite directions.

Yes, but the Doctor constantly visited River Song in prison and went on many off-screen adventures with her. Meaning the Doctor cares for and loves River Song. The reasons why their relationship is so strong were never really touched upon. If the Doctor didn't share similar feelings, why did he constantly go on private adventures with her and save her life numerous times? I feel like we are missing crucial development points in their relationship. Maybe this was done intentionally?
??? I only remember a very few times that The Doctor visited River in prison.  It seems that River pretty much just showed up where The Doctor happened to be. 

Also remember that The Doctor disappeared for a few hundred years that he doesn't talk about much.  My guess is that's when they had much of their romance.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Ghost of V

Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2014, 07:52:05 PM »
??? I only remember a very few times that The Doctor visited River in prison.  It seems that River pretty much just showed up where The Doctor happened to be. 

Also remember that The Doctor disappeared for a few hundred years that he doesn't talk about much.  My guess is that's when they had much of their romance.

It is implied within the show that The Doctor visits River often off-screen.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2014, 08:39:05 PM »
In general I'm in the "Doctor Who needs to end" camp. Anyway... Eccleston's Doctor was a three dimensional character who used his brain to solve problems. His actions actually had consequences throughout the series, which had a continuity that was complex yet still made sense. Tennant's Doctor was gradually reduced to nothing more than a costume and a few catchphrases, and his stories basically rely on their own extreme convolutedness in the context of the greater continuity (which is practically non-existent at this point) to justify the use of deus ex machina in the form of either the Doctor's powers or features of the Tardis, neither of which are ever brought up again. What little I have seen of Smith's series reminds me of Tennant but with worse stories, worse characters, worse special effects and more of that annoying River Song idiot.
The entire continuity was: Bad Wolf.
Seriously, that was the entire season in a nutshell.  The words Bad Wolf popping up everywhere.

It was marred with people killing themselves to stop the threat or the Doctor directly killing them.
The First Episode: Doctor Kills the giant plastic maker thingy.
The second episode: Tree lady kills herself to flip a switch.
The Third Episode: Maid kills herself to seal a rift.
The Fourth and Fifth episodes: A lot of important British people die and the Doctor has a missile fired at Downing Street.  Think that didn't kill a few innocent people?  Not only that but someone ELSE actually launched the missile, not The Doctor.
The sixth episode: The dalek kills himself. (thanks to Rose BTW)
The seventh: Human saves the day again but this time doesn't die.
8: Rose's dad kills himself.
9-10: Everyone lives.  (because mommy gives her boy a hug)
11: Deus Ex "villain is defeated"
12-13: The Doctor Lies and get's a lot of people killed (intentionally).  Rose does a Deus Ex.

Have you noticed a running theme? A human saves the day in most cases.  Not the Doctor, some random character.  And it's usually fatal.
In all 10 "stories"(I count two parters as one story for this count) humans(and one tree lady) save the day 8 times.  The Tardis in 1.  The Doctor in 1.

This is probably why you like it more.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Ghost of V

Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2014, 04:36:26 AM »
I just had the unfortunate experience of watching The Doctor's Daughter for the 5+ time. The scene where Jenny backflips through the laser grid room is so absurd. Also, how did she survive getting shot in the chest? She clearly died and obviously didn't regenerate. Is she immortal?

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Offline markjo

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2014, 03:02:53 PM »
I just had the unfortunate experience of watching The Doctor's Daughter for the 5+ time. The scene where Jenny backflips through the laser grid room is so absurd.
Well, duh.  The show is supposed to be absurd.

Also, how did she survive getting shot in the chest? She clearly died and obviously didn't regenerate. Is she immortal?
Kevlar?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

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Offline rooster

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2014, 03:26:02 PM »
I thought it did seem like she used her regenerative abilities to heal herself rather than a full regenaration.

Ghost of V

Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2014, 05:29:54 PM »
After researching it, apparently Jenny was revived by the source. The energy that escapes her lips before she revives looks the same as the gasses in the source. Apparently the source combined with Jenny's natural regenerative powers saved her. Why she didn't just regenerate to begin with is beyond me, though.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 06:53:43 PM by Vauxhall »

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2014, 07:04:00 PM »
I don't wan to see him spending too much time on Gallifrey - one or two stories about political intrigue, scandal and power would be fun, but I'd rather move away from the 'arc' format of previous seasons.

I like overarching storylines that cover an entire season, but Moffat doesn't know how write them well.

Russel T. Davies did a good job at it. He kept the series episodic, almost "monster of the week", but dropped subtle hints throughout that there was an overarching thing going on, which usually came to light during the final two episodes.

Moffat attempts to do the same thing, but takes his writing too seriously and makes many of the one-off episodes seem unimportant in the shadow of the overarching story. I think that Matt Smith's 2nd season is the biggest culprit here: The Impossible Astronaut arc, combined with the Silence, and the "Good man Demon's Run" BS made the season too cluttered and turned seemingly-serious incidents into laughable sidequests. I can't even pick a decent episode out of the 13 that created Series 6... maybe The Doctor's Wife or Closing Time?

The first two episodes were quite good if you ignore the 'Doctor is dead' bit. Creepy enemies with a genuinely inventive solution. The Doctor's Wife is amongst my favourite NuWho episodes.

The Rebel Flesh and The Almost People are quite good (once you get past the absurdity of an 'acid mine' in a Scottish castle.) There's a good story about cloning, acceptance, and prejudice marred slightly by them becoming far too monstrous in the second episode. I'd have been much happier if the Doctor's words to the miner rang a bit more true. "Are you a violent man? No? Then why assume your 'ganger will be?"

The Girl Who Waited is a good one, although it's hard to sympaphise too much with Amy's 30-year wait when Rory waited two millenia for her.

Ghost of V

Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2014, 07:25:19 PM »
Thinking back on it: Series 6 does have some good episodes. The ganger episode was quite good. The real offenders this series are The Impossible Astronaut, Let's Kill Hitler, The Wedding of River Song. The fact that the main arc episodes in this series are terrible puts a damper on the entirety of series 6 for me because I find the main arc episodes to be the most interesting/exciting of a series.

Series 6 also has some really boring throwaway episodes: Night Terrors & The Curse of the Black Spot (ugh) instantly come to mind.

One thing I appreciate about Series 6 is that Moffat set up a few different explanations for how the Doctor could have survived death in The Impossible Astronaut. I'm guessing he wanted viewers to assume that the Doctor who died in the first episode was actually a ganger, which I think would have been more interesting than him being a robot anyways... I suppose Moffat didn't choose that route because Amy was already a ganger the whole time, so it would seem silly if the Doctor was too. However, I still think the whole "he's dead" thing is silly Moffat writing. It seems like he relies on similar concepts in all his work. For example, the end of Sherlock Season 2 is very similar in style to the beginning of Doctor Who series 6. "He's dead but obviously survived... how did he do it?". It's just lazy writing imo. At least he actually gave us a legit explanation in Doctor Who, unlike Sherlock.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 07:45:25 PM by Vauxhall »