1

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: September 01, 2022, 06:30:32 PM »

I make no prediction about Trump's (or any other 2 year old's) course of action.  But its possible that he wants to be charged.  That he assumes his supporters will not look into the charges and just take his word for it that "I've done nothing wrong and am being persecuted by the Democrats" much like they did for "I won't the 2020 election", and that such will be a rallying cry at least among his supporters or likely supporters.  I hope not, but we're living in strange times so who knows.

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: We are saved by faith alone, and the evidence of faith is works.

« on: August 31, 2022, 05:17:52 PM »

I thought "data collected" made it clear I am talking about scientific data, not tales of tales etc.

You are the only one who seems to think that eyewitness accounts do not constitute scientific data.

It can, it all depends.  As made famous by Carl Sagan "“extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” and you still have not provided any evidence, extraordinary or otherwise.

3

Technology & Information / Re: T minus 30 minutes - Artemis Mission to Moon

« on: August 31, 2022, 05:04:34 PM »

This time around the launch window is also (at least for me in CA) much more convenient.  The previous one was something like 5am-7am PDT, to early for me.  But I'll be watching this time!

4

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Are the American police out of control?

« on: August 31, 2022, 04:48:22 PM »

video of traffic stop

That appears to be a textbook case of poor training in how to NOT escalate a situation.  Maybe the driver would have been defiant in any case, but she asks the officer why she is being requested to get out of the truck and instead of simply saying that your license is suspended so I can not let you proceed to drive, the officer just escalates with "because I am telling you to".  Likewise for any other officers that were present.  They need to be trained to intervene if one of their own is going down a path they know is wrong.  I'm not saying any of that is easy.  Particularly the "our side" Vs "their side" mentality, but it does seem doable.

You seem to miss something:
Do they want to be nice?
There are cops who love the power.  Who joined just for the ability to have this authority over others.  No amount of training is gonna fix that.

Sure, and those (I'd guess/hope relatively few folks) need to be weeded out.

Good luck with that.

Thanks, what other choice do we have?

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: We are saved by faith alone, and the evidence of faith is works.

« on: August 31, 2022, 04:47:10 PM »

I stated (and still do) that no data collected (note this is not tales of hearsay but actual collected data)

Ah, so now you are cherry-picking which evidence qualifies as "evidence" to you. Once again, this is not how science works, nor is it what you initially claimed.

No I am not. I thought "data collected" made it clear I am talking about scientific data, not tales of tales etc.  Your statement makes it clear you DID take it that way (or else why would now science works be relevant?).   If you claim there IS such data (and then I'd expect to be numerous scientific papers about it) please point them out.  If its so "patently false" that no such data exists, why not just do me the favor or indulge me and point out this amazing data.  I'd really love to see it.

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: We are saved by faith alone, and the evidence of faith is works.

« on: August 30, 2022, 10:26:27 PM »

Lets just review.

All the data humans have collected shows no evidence of miracles or gods or devils or angels, etc.

That is patently false, but par for the course for your brand of "science".

I stated (and still do) that no data collected (note this is not tales of hearsay but actual collected data) shows evidence of gods or devils etc.  You say that is "patently false" so it should be trivial for you to prove me wrong by just providing a link to such evidence and analysis.  But instead you insist that I prove a negative. 

Clearly I made a mistake in thinking your post was serious.  Apologies to the rest of the board.

7

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: We are saved by faith alone, and the evidence of faith is works.

« on: August 30, 2022, 09:32:24 PM »

You can make the case for that if you like, I doubt you will do so and my "brand" of science is science as practiced by you know actual scientists.

To support your claim, please name 3 scientists who follow the approach of "just state any old shit and claim that 'all the data shows it' without providing any evidence".

I will just ignore your trolling from now on.

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: We are saved by faith alone, and the evidence of faith is works.

« on: August 30, 2022, 09:27:26 PM »

All the data humans have collected shows no evidence of miracles or gods or devils or angels, etc.

That is patently false, but par for the course for your brand of "science".

You can make the case for that if you like, I doubt you will do so (you could start by pointing to a single peer reviewed science paper that claims such evidence) and my "brand" of science is science as practiced by you know actual scientists. 

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: We are saved by faith alone, and the evidence of faith is works.

« on: August 30, 2022, 08:27:45 PM »

As I've said before, I think that if there is a God, he would want us to use our free will and ability to think critically in interpreting the Bible. Accepting that the Bible just means what someone else tells you it means defeats the whole point of giving us free will and providing us with a holy book to read. Faith, then, is not the goal, but rather personal development and independent thought.

Anyone who tells you you are going to Hell for your interpretation of the Bible is not speaking on behalf of God.

All the data humans have collected shows no evidence of miracles or gods or devils or angels, etc.  Reasoning about the nature of reality (to my thinking at least) says that the "supernatural" is a meaningless term much like the center of an infinite plane.  If the universe, even if its a multi-verse, is everything than everything is natural.   If that reasoning is false then claiming its just wrong enough for the Christian God to exist but everything else is still legitimate seems no more or less likely than tea leaves being a good predictor of the future.  Humans invented gods to sooth the itch of not knowing things.  But the truth is that there is a lot we do not know, may never know, and perhaps even more that we have no contact with to even be aware that we don't know it.
Everyone wants to be treated well by others and the best chance we have for that is to treat everyone well.  Besides it feels good.

10

Technology & Information / Re: T minus 30 minutes - Artemis Mission to Moon

« on: August 30, 2022, 07:23:14 AM »

T minus how long now? lol

T-minus eventually.  Although, to be fair (in case anyone is interested in that), these things rarely go off first try for NASA.

Or anyone else.

11

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Are the American police out of control?

« on: August 30, 2022, 07:19:53 AM »

video of traffic stop

That appears to be a textbook case of poor training in how to NOT escalate a situation.  Maybe the driver would have been defiant in any case, but she asks the officer why she is being requested to get out of the truck and instead of simply saying that your license is suspended so I can not let you proceed to drive, the officer just escalates with "because I am telling you to".  Likewise for any other officers that were present.  They need to be trained to intervene if one of their own is going down a path they know is wrong.  I'm not saying any of that is easy.  Particularly the "our side" Vs "their side" mentality, but it does seem doable.

You seem to miss something:
Do they want to be nice?
There are cops who love the power.  Who joined just for the ability to have this authority over others.  No amount of training is gonna fix that.

Sure, and those (I'd guess/hope relatively few folks) need to be weeded out.

12

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Are the American police out of control?

« on: August 29, 2022, 10:55:22 PM »

video of traffic stop

That appears to be a textbook case of poor training in how to NOT escalate a situation.  Maybe the driver would have been defiant in any case, but she asks the officer why she is being requested to get out of the truck and instead of simply saying that your license is suspended so I can not let you proceed to drive, the officer just escalates with "because I am telling you to".  Likewise for any other officers that were present.  They need to be trained to intervene if one of their own is going down a path they know is wrong.  I'm not saying any of that is easy.  Particularly the "our side" Vs "their side" mentality, but it does seem doable.

13

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Are the American police out of control?

« on: August 29, 2022, 05:33:54 PM »

Such incidents while rare are indeed horrible and we need to strive to eliminate them.  To do that police need more training and that means more funding not less.  Also the US needs response agencies other than armed police.  If you find someone sleeping in your doorstep and do not want to deal with it yourself your only alternative at present is to call 911 and eventually an officer will show up.  But it likely would be more effective and less expensive for a couple of social works to arrive instead, and if they have difficulty with the person they can call in the cavalry.  The police should not be asked to do things they are not trained for and are over-equipped for.  Reporting a crime also does not need an armed officer to show up.  It would be interesting to see a breakdown of tasks the police are asked to perform and how many of them could be done or done better by other personnel.

The US also needs to reform our prisons such that they become institutions where where inmates can set their lives on a better course and that is far from the case at present.   Going to prison should be a very good indicator that you will not return, but the opposite is true at present.  This also will require more funding, not less.

14

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: August 26, 2022, 07:34:42 PM »

It sounds more like the leftists in the government are trying to cover up their crimes:

https://www.justsecurity.org/82723/trump-associates-stated-plan-to-publicly-release-declassified-documents/

Total nonsense.  First declassification is a processes, even for a President, and it was not followed in regard to these docs so clearly they were not declassified.  Second one of the key reasons for the search as expressed in the affidavit is the complete lack of a process to keep documents segregated based on their security level.  This is the most basic of document handling and Trump appears to have ignored it during and after his presidency.  Third that contrary to Trump's claim of cooperation clearly they were instead explicitly obstructing.

If Trump's intent was to release information from these docs, then why hasn't he done it?   Likely because while he likes to claim there is evidence exonerating him wrt the Russia/Muller investigation, in fact the evidence is the opposite and shows Putin DID help him get elected.  Connecting the dots to the Trump campaign sufficiently for a jury might be another matter (or not), but we know for sure that the Internet Research Agency (the Internet advertising arm of the FSB) DID run ads favoring Trump in 2016.

Whether Trump's supporters will be taken in yet again by this latest Trump con game, or whether it will be a bridge to far even for them, remains to be seen.

15

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ

« on: August 24, 2022, 03:15:42 AM »

But both the abuse of women in Afghanistan and the abuse of prisoners in America are irrelevant to the thread topic of Monkeypox.

You brought up the morals of the Taliban.

16

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ

« on: August 24, 2022, 12:16:05 AM »

How can allowing all the points that have been well documented be described as "strong morals"?  That's rather like saying that besides the fact that the patient died, the operation was a success.

I agreed that abuse of women was wrong. It is wrong to say that an entire culture has no other possible redeeming qualities because some things are bad, however.

"was wrong"?  We're talking about what is going on NOW in Afghanistan.  It also is not just "some things are bad" but it is EXTREMELY bad for HALF the population.  So much so that they are killing themselves in record numbers.  Even if things were great for the other half (men), which they are not, nothing can counter the horror show the Taliban have inflicted on women.

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ

« on: August 23, 2022, 08:42:35 PM »

I wonder if you really think that represents what is going on today in Afghanistan or if this is just more trolling.  There are numerous reports on this, here is one (emphasis mine):

You cited a bunch of things about the abuse of women. That's literally the first criticism I had:

"Aside from the treatment of women as a culture, I don't see many faults with them otherwise."

The abuse isn't good. But they do appear to have strong morals. You have failed to show how the things I mentioned in the positive are actually bad.

How can allowing all the points that have been well documented be described as "strong morals"?  That's rather like saying that besides the fact that the patient died, the operation was a success.

18

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ

« on: August 23, 2022, 07:58:27 PM »

A number of cultures eschew displays of heterosexual female sexuality that is prevalent in western culture. I also mentioned the absence of overt female sluttiness as a benefit in Taliban culture in that bullet list.

I wonder if you really think that represents what is going on today in Afghanistan or if this is just more trolling.  There are numerous reports on this, here is one (emphasis mine):

Humanitarian groups such as UN Women immediately began documenting changes to the treatment of women, issuing their first Gender Alert in December 2021. In the report, Afghan women spoke of new requirements by the Taliban for women to be accompanied by a male relative in public, restrictions on women’s clothing, barriers to employment, and violence inflicted upon women who protest against the Taliban’s rules. It also highlighted a set of restrictions on the Afghan media, enacted in November 2021, that banned television shows with female actors and forced women newscasters to wear Islamic hijabs. This came in between separate statements made by the Taliban which claimed to have been actively improving women’s rights and equality.

Since the UN Women’s report was published, the situation has only gotten worse.

According to NPR, since the Taliban assumed control, they have prohibited women from working and girls from continuing their schooling past sixth grade, enforced a strict dress code where women are expected to be covered from head to toe with only an opening for their eyes, arrested women for violating the morality code, and allowed the abduction and forced marriage of young girls . Human Rights Watch found that the Taliban has enforced these harsh restrictions, similar to those from the 1990s, through intimidation and inspections.

Filmmaker Ramita Navai told NPR that “Afghanistan is one of the few countries where rates of suicides among women were higher than men,” and since the Taliban took over, suicides across the country have risen sharply. The reason for this, according to Navai is that “life for a lot of women in very rural areas hasn’t changed that much since the Taliban came to power… what has changed is the loss of hope.”

Human Rights Watch reaffirmed these findings, referring to interviews conducted in the Ghazni province where women expressed “fear, anxiety, hopelessness, and a deep sense of loss and helplessness.”

19

Technology & Information / Re: machine-generated art (DALL-E, Imagen, Midjourney, etc.)

« on: August 17, 2022, 07:03:24 PM »

Devaluing the work of artists would indeed be bad.  But I'm not so sure that will be the result.  In music (which is very different from painting due to the performance aspect, but still is an interesting data point) I read some pieces prior to the pandemic that a number of artists were focusing more on concerts, that can not be faked, instead of producing recordings that are becoming ever easier to counterfeit.

Maybe originals will in fact become more valued and copies less so.  To be an original there has to be some sort of verification that such is the case.  e.g. I have a water color that I really like that I know is an original as I know the artist.  If I were to sell it there needs to be something that can provide that same verification.  I'm not sure NFTs are the answer here but something along those lines might serve such a purpose.

As for where this is going, I have no more idea than anyone else.  However its interesting to note that self driving cars was thought to be pretty doable, we'll have this working in just a few years.  But it turns out its a lot harder than originally thought.  It would not surprise me if we find that creating art (as something that inspires that touches people etc) is in a similar class.

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Technology & Information / Re: machine-generated art (DALL-E, Imagen, Midjourney, etc.)

« on: August 17, 2022, 05:12:44 PM »

I don't have a problem with it.  It would be nice if the full provenance of an object (art, currency, artifacts, or even mass produced commercial products) could be known, but that has never been true even without computers.  Its a constant battle with the counterfeiters.  Video evidence of some act will soon, if not already, not be sufficient entirely on its own to convince people that said act occurred as shown.  But direct eye witnesses to such claimed acts are always good in any case.

A possible counter example might be security camera footage of something where there is in fact no one else present and one party is just claiming that an event occurred due to having it recorded.  If faking such things becomes essentially free, one might imagine bad uses of it, but we'll just have to deal with that if it becomes an issue.