Setec Astronomy

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2016, 04:57:27 PM »
I can never fathom why NASA would cover up the truth,
You think it's realistic to expect NASA to say "actually folks, our world is flat and there's no outer space. At a certain altitude we encounter what seems to be the underside of a giant dome of smooth impenetrable sapphire and we can't get past it or through it to get anywhere near the moon, planets, stars or anything other heavenly bodies. Everything we've all been led to believe about our world is a total lie and we know next to nothing about what this place actually is or our reason is for being here. But hey - look at Kim Kardasian's ass!"

Keeping you in the complacent belief that you live on a tiny insignificant speck of a spinning ball within a vast universe populated with untold trillions of similar places means you are unlikely to worry about much of anything other than your own pursuit of pleasure and (false) knowledge. Keep buying iPhones and VR goggles. Keep whacking off to porn. Go ahead and get off on putting things in your ass. Get drunk and crazy. But most of all, keep buying shit and believe souls are a hoax.

Setec Astronomy

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2016, 06:44:07 PM »
So throughout history there is:

NASA and every other space agency
Yes.
Quote
Astronomers
Not all of them - only the ones who make specific claims about things they have not actually witnessed (seeing stellar parallax, surfaces of other planets etc.)
Quote
Pilots and ship crews
Only some pilots and navigators. Plenty don't think through the operations of their instruments, inertial guidance in particular, to realize the bigger picture - and those who do can often be satiated with words like "schuler tuning" (much like a skeptic of Star Trek transporters will accept "Heisenberg compensators" as a plausible Macguffin).
Quote
Cartographers
Depends on the specific cartographer and their claim. Most, once again, accept the status quo and never even have to think about the bigger picture when constructing maps of small areas.
Quote
Geodetic surveyors
Only the ones who specifically put forth the claim that they have observed curvature. Most give it no thought at all and make no mention of it.
Quote
Almost everyone involved in the Earth sciences
Nope, most of them are dupes as far as the ball-earth goes. They simply believe, like most others, that what they were taught about the earth as a whole is true.
Quote
Amateur radio operators
Nope, only the ones who say they've bounced radio waves off the moon. Though plenty will believe it and repeat the lie.
Quote
Satellite TV installers
Nope, all they do is point the dish at a spot in the sky. They are blissfully unaware that the signal is ionospheric reflection of a ground-based emission tower. Anyone can figure this out though just by observing the angle dishes are aimed on houses near the equator (use Google Map Street View of places like Quito, Ecuador and hunt around for views where you can see satellite dishes on houses and you'll see exactly what I mean)
Quote
Amateur astronomers
Only the ones who fake observations - and they are not "amateur" they are sold-out liars putting out false data.

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2016, 07:06:15 PM »
Stuff
You do realize that if our world was flat, it'd be more beleivable that NASA would've been honest about it upon its discovery? Anything else would mean NASA and other space agencies would've been founded solely to hold up the hoax.
Outside of looking like morons/assholes for lying about their every accomplishment, there is nothing to lose. Certainly nothing to have lost by being honest to begin with. So again, why hide it in the first place. There is nothing to gain from this charade, which they would've realized half a century ago. So the question still stands, even if in a different wording.

Why lie to begin with? If there isn't a reason to lie in the first place then why would you?
Occasional poster, frequent observer.
Round Earth.

RE is a complex theory of simple answers.
FE is a simple theory of complex answers.


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Setec Astronomy

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2016, 07:15:50 PM »
You do realize that if our world was flat, it'd be more beleivable that NASA would've been honest about it upon its discovery?
Why on earth would you expect an agency of a hierarchical structure (government) literally designed to rule over you with the threat of violence or imprisonment to have any interest in informing you of the truth?

They will tell you things that, if you believe them, will tend to keep you a complacent citizen whose efforts will benefit them.

Do the owners of the race tracks try to tell the greyhounds that the thing zipping around the track is just a scrap of fur and not a real rabbit they can ever catch?

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2016, 07:39:54 PM »
I doubt whether or not I think my planet is round really effects my complacency in any way.
Also telling us the truth when the truth isn't a danger to their rule or our daily life is an unneccesary complication they could do without. A complication they would do without.

Unless, you are willing to admit knowing the Earth is flat has given you serious issues with authority, and/or has made you an exceedingly aggressive individual. And this anomoly must be common among the majority of FE-ers (which it isn't. Credit where its due you guys seem to actually be calmer on average then us). So complancency isn't it unless the aforementioned requirements are met (or something more ridiculous like seeing our lizard overlords for who they really are. :D).

So once again the question stands without even a somewhat probable excuse for why.
Occasional poster, frequent observer.
Round Earth.

RE is a complex theory of simple answers.
FE is a simple theory of complex answers.


Also ignoring intikam.

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2016, 09:07:20 PM »
I doubt whether or not I think my planet is round really effects my complacency in any way.
Also telling us the truth when the truth isn't a danger to their rule or our daily life is an unneccesary complication they could do without. A complication they would do without.

Unless, you are willing to admit knowing the Earth is flat has given you serious issues with authority, and/or has made you an exceedingly aggressive individual. And this anomoly must be common among the majority of FE-ers (which it isn't. Credit where its due you guys seem to actually be calmer on average then us). So complancency isn't it unless the aforementioned requirements are met (or something more ridiculous like seeing our lizard overlords for who they really are. :D).

So once again the question stands without even a somewhat probable excuse for why.

Maybe they're just entirely too entangled in the web of lies at this point? Maybe the Apollo missions were faked under the assumption that the earth was a sphere and they never could really confirm or deny this prior to the missions? I'd say the reason why they can't recant at this point is that they are entirely in too deep and have already spent trillions of our dollars on space exploration.

Just a possibility as to why.

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2016, 09:28:59 PM »
So throughout history there is:

NASA and every other space agency
Yes.
Quote
Astronomers
Not all of them - only the ones who make specific claims about things they have not actually witnessed (seeing stellar parallax, surfaces of other planets etc.)
Quote
Pilots and ship crews
Only some pilots and navigators. Plenty don't think through the operations of their instruments, inertial guidance in particular, to realize the bigger picture - and those who do can often be satiated with words like "schuler tuning" (much like a skeptic of Star Trek transporters will accept "Heisenberg compensators" as a plausible Macguffin).
Quote
Cartographers
Depends on the specific cartographer and their claim. Most, once again, accept the status quo and never even have to think about the bigger picture when constructing maps of small areas.
Quote
Geodetic surveyors
Only the ones who specifically put forth the claim that they have observed curvature. Most give it no thought at all and make no mention of it.
Quote
Almost everyone involved in the Earth sciences
Nope, most of them are dupes as far as the ball-earth goes. They simply believe, like most others, that what they were taught about the earth as a whole is true.
Quote
Amateur radio operators
Nope, only the ones who say they've bounced radio waves off the moon. Though plenty will believe it and repeat the lie.
Quote
Satellite TV installers
Nope, all they do is point the dish at a spot in the sky. They are blissfully unaware that the signal is ionospheric reflection of a ground-based emission tower. Anyone can figure this out though just by observing the angle dishes are aimed on houses near the equator (use Google Map Street View of places like Quito, Ecuador and hunt around for views where you can see satellite dishes on houses and you'll see exactly what I mean)
Quote
Amateur astronomers
Only the ones who fake observations - and they are not "amateur" they are sold-out liars putting out false data.
Satellite dish alignment can easily be measured by you to prove your theory. They have to be very accurately aligned and each transponder has a tighly defined coverage area.  For reception of a particular transponder you should be able to show the transmitter location to prove the use of ionospheric reflection.

Setec Astronomy

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2016, 10:05:11 PM »
Satellite dish alignment can easily be measured by you to prove your theory. They have to be very accurately aligned and each transponder has a tighly defined coverage area.  For reception of a particular transponder you should be able to show the transmitter location to prove the use of ionospheric reflection.

Or you could just look at where dishes are aligned for residences at or near the equator. Since a geosynchronous satellite would necessarily be directly above the equator, their dishes should all be aimed at near 90 degrees straight up.
But no, they are not:
https://www.google.com/maps/@-0.171372,-78.495434,3a,15y,62.71h,89.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFwxHXqj13dhHrRRGOKwn7Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
https://www.google.com/maps/@-0.008385,-78.4541427,3a,15y,160.42h,100.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbtKUG8CzTFTmStdRcTArew!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
https://www.google.com/maps/@-0.0083874,-78.4535076,3a,27.2y,229.6h,89.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s101E4oAtbUtRVGnfP4v3Cg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

All you have to do is look... and understand.

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2016, 10:19:29 PM »

Maybe they're just entirely too entangled in the web of lies at this point? Maybe the Apollo missions were faked under the assumption that the earth was a sphere and they never could really confirm or deny this prior to the missions? I'd say the reason why they can't recant at this point is that they are entirely in too deep and have already spent trillions of our dollars on space exploration.

Just a possibility as to why.

Eh, in RE you don't even have to reach low orbit to see the curvature of the Earth. Its unlikely given the accepted facts of RE that it would've taken the moon mission's failure to discover it.

But I could still see it as a plausible, albeit unlikely scenario.
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Round Earth.

RE is a complex theory of simple answers.
FE is a simple theory of complex answers.


Also ignoring intikam.

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Offline thatsnice

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Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2016, 10:23:02 PM »
Satellite dish alignment can easily be measured by you to prove your theory. They have to be very accurately aligned and each transponder has a tighly defined coverage area.  For reception of a particular transponder you should be able to show the transmitter location to prove the use of ionospheric reflection.

Or you could just look at where dishes are aligned for residences at or near the equator. Since a geosynchronous satellite would necessarily be directly above the equator, their dishes should all be aimed at near 90 degrees straight up.

You were so close with that one, but you overlooked something. While, yes, geosynchronous satellites are usually positioned above the equator, that doesn't mean that it's directly above any given city. It could be anywhere east or west of that city, it just has to be on the equator. If you look at the compass on google StreetMaps, you can see that they are all pointing magnetic east.

EDIT: Here is a place that is a couple hundred miles north east of where most cable satellites are positioned.
https://www.google.com/maps/@2.8321939,-60.7017016,3a,15y,224.21h,95.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1segv7xAGhIQlPNwCEI4hL0A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656https://www.google.com/maps/@2.7995709,-60.7763506,3a,15y,312.94h,90.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssrlXH5t2LPKGoUWBVwdhYA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Just so happens that they are "almost 90 degrees", I calculate them to be 80 degrees above the horizontal.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 10:47:56 PM by thatsnice »
"You never go full retard."

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2016, 11:15:33 PM »

Maybe they're just entirely too entangled in the web of lies at this point? Maybe the Apollo missions were faked under the assumption that the earth was a sphere and they never could really confirm or deny this prior to the missions? I'd say the reason why they can't recant at this point is that they are entirely in too deep and have already spent trillions of our dollars on space exploration.

Just a possibility as to why.

Eh, in RE you don't even have to reach low orbit to see the curvature of the Earth. Its unlikely given the accepted facts of RE that it would've taken the moon mission's failure to discover it.

But I could still see it as a plausible, albeit unlikely scenario.

Whats drawn me to this whole thing in the first place is the fact that almost all phenomena that points to the earth being a sphere can be explained in other ways. I don't believe it has been proven beyond a rreasonable doubt that the earth is the sphere were told.

That curvature we see from up really high could very well be the terminator line of where the sun would have its radius of shine.

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Offline BlueMoon

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Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2016, 12:14:02 AM »

Maybe they're just entirely too entangled in the web of lies at this point? Maybe the Apollo missions were faked under the assumption that the earth was a sphere and they never could really confirm or deny this prior to the missions? I'd say the reason why they can't recant at this point is that they are entirely in too deep and have already spent trillions of our dollars on space exploration.

Just a possibility as to why.

Eh, in RE you don't even have to reach low orbit to see the curvature of the Earth. Its unlikely given the accepted facts of RE that it would've taken the moon mission's failure to discover it.

But I could still see it as a plausible, albeit unlikely scenario.

Whats drawn me to this whole thing in the first place is the fact that almost all phenomena that points to the earth being a sphere can be explained in other ways. I don't believe it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the earth is the sphere were told.

That curvature we see from up really high could very well be the terminator line of where the sun would have its radius of shine.


Other ways?  Sure!  Better ways?  Hell no! 
There's no way the curvature could be caused by the earth's terminator.  They are completely separate. 
If you think we haven't proven the earth's shape beyond a reasonable doubt, you haven't done your research.  Look at how we can model satellite orbits using Kepler elements, and then calculate their ephemeris.  It's very math-intensive, so there are websites that can do it for you, but you can also do it yourself.  All orbits can be explained by gravity, and none can be explained if the earth is flat. 
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Offline Woody

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Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2016, 12:48:43 AM »

Quote
Astronomers
Not all of them - only the ones who make specific claims about things they have not actually witnessed (seeing stellar parallax, surfaces of other planets etc.)

Quote
Pilots and ship crews
Only some pilots and navigators. Plenty don't think through the operations of their instruments, inertial guidance in particular, to realize the bigger picture - and those who do can often be satiated with words like "schuler tuning" (much like a skeptic of Star Trek transporters will accept "Heisenberg compensators" as a plausible Macguffin).
Quote
Cartographers
Depends on the specific cartographer and their claim. Most, once again, accept the status quo and never even have to think about the bigger picture when constructing maps of small areas.
Quote
Geodetic surveyors
Only the ones who specifically put forth the claim that they have observed curvature. Most give it no thought at all and make no mention of it.
Quote
Almost everyone involved in the Earth sciences
Nope, most of them are dupes as far as the ball-earth goes. They simply believe, like most others, that what they were taught about the earth as a whole is true.
Quote
Amateur radio operators
Nope, only the ones who say they've bounced radio waves off the moon. Though plenty will believe it and repeat the lie.
Quote
Satellite TV installers
Nope, all they do is point the dish at a spot in the sky. They are blissfully unaware that the signal is ionospheric reflection of a ground-based emission tower. Anyone can figure this out though just by observing the angle dishes are aimed on houses near the equator (use Google Map Street View of places like Quito, Ecuador and hunt around for views where you can see satellite dishes on houses and you'll see exactly what I mean)
Quote
Amateur astronomers
Only the ones who fake observations - and they are not "amateur" they are sold-out liars putting out false data.

First look up how geodetic surveys are done, the history, how long it has been going on and the vast amount of these surveys that were done.  You will notice that some of the errors they were discovering with maps were the result of curvature.  In the beginning for shorter distances there was now need to account for curvature.

So either the vast majority of geodetic surveyors throughout history did not understand how their job was done or they are/were part of the conspiracy.

A relatively simple job like satellite TV installation would likely result in more then one person figuring out something is up.  The dishes need to be pointed in a certain direction for a certain satellite.  That direction changes from location to location.

As for the Earth sciences they use models from various fields to make predictions.  Errors in those predictions would resonate throughout all the sciences.

Here is an example of looking for an error of 3mm or less for a prediction that used models for plate tectonics, GPS error, Earth tide, tidal loading, gravity. All based on the Earth being a spheroid.
https://blogs.ncl.ac.uk/geodesy/2015/08/14/two-papers-on-ocean-tide-loading/

So we have a prediction being 3 mm off for a part of the world.  That prediction was made by using various different models from different fields and was only off by no more than 3 mm for a certain area.

It also shows scientist do not just accept things and will not investigate something.

As I stated before either the majority of people with careers in the Earth sciences and astronomy are part of the conspiracy or the errors that would resonate through many different fields of study go unnoticed or investigated.



Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2016, 03:40:07 AM »
That curvature we see from up really high could very well be the terminator line of where the sun would have its radius of shine.

Well, no. The terminator line look rather different from a curved horizon.

Also, while FET does have explanations for basically everything, they feel very similar to the "science" in those bad Sy Fy movies. And the many explanations are inconsistent, either with themselves, or with explanations for other things. To me, any of the guys whole heartedly believe in the wiki as a factual reference must spew bullcrap every day and eat it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
What I would love to see is correct math and well documented experiments. Reasoning for why one might beleive there are celestial gears, or why one might beleive in the ridiculous notion of a massive sapphire dome.

I don't mean to sound rude here. By all means, the Earth may be flat, but saying it is because it looks flat out your window and coming up with a myriad of unproven explanations for it is ridiculous.
Occasional poster, frequent observer.
Round Earth.

RE is a complex theory of simple answers.
FE is a simple theory of complex answers.


Also ignoring intikam.

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2016, 03:52:17 AM »
Clarification on my saying "anyone who believes tje wiki as factual reference blah blah" that isn't intended to insult all the FE-ers out there. Its just that the wiki should seem ridiculous to anyone sane, no matter what shape you think the planet is. Good to get ideas in the ballpark I guess, but its not what I'd call refined.
Occasional poster, frequent observer.
Round Earth.

RE is a complex theory of simple answers.
FE is a simple theory of complex answers.


Also ignoring intikam.

Setec Astronomy

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2016, 04:51:21 AM »
Satellite dish alignment can easily be measured by you to prove your theory. They have to be very accurately aligned and each transponder has a tighly defined coverage area.  For reception of a particular transponder you should be able to show the transmitter location to prove the use of ionospheric reflection.

Or you could just look at where dishes are aligned for residences at or near the equator. Since a geosynchronous satellite would necessarily be directly above the equator, their dishes should all be aimed at near 90 degrees straight up.

You were so close with that one, but you overlooked something. While, yes, geosynchronous satellites are usually positioned above the equator, that doesn't mean that it's directly above any given city. It could be anywhere east or west of that city, it just has to be on the equator. If you look at the compass on google StreetMaps, you can see that they are all pointing magnetic east.
Yes, they give you plausible deniability so people can continue believing in orbiting satellites. What's surely odd is all satellite tv dishes point off at an angle less than 60 degrees from horizontal. And the angle they point at indicates the satellite must be above a part of the globe nearly 1/4 the circumference away.

LOOK
Piura, Peru
Here's one at -5 degrees south of the equator that is pointing nearly horizontal!
https://www.google.com/maps/@-5.1609302,-80.655418,3a,35.5y,294.86h,84.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7NexUd5IifEuOVb5ZYhQ_Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Another: https://www.google.com/maps/@-5.1612217,-80.6560581,3a,75y,193.78h,78.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svSn0F5QUV7F28hcGnLN_aA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
And two more: https://www.google.com/maps/@-5.1601944,-80.6565193,3a,40y,136.04h,84.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbktmsKHcIQXoTYG-zz0FXQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

What location could such a satellite possibly be 42,000 kilometers above for dishes at this angle to be aiming at it? Africa?

Now the east coast of South America:
https://www.google.com/maps/@-1.3512533,-48.4667752,3a,25.6y,24.66h,106.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV9epkXfNJZhdjJ_cDGPWTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Dish points west, but at such a low angle - it must be aimed at a satellite above the middle of the Pacific Ocean!

Go ahead and work out where these "geosynchronous satellites" must be located, given the angle the dishes are aimed. It makes zero sense.

Quote
EDIT: Here is a place that is a couple hundred miles north east of where most cable satellites are positioned.
https://www.google.com/maps/@2.7995709,-60.7763506,3a,15y,312.94h,90.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssrlXH5t2LPKGoUWBVwdhYA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Just so happens that they are "almost 90 degrees", I calculate them to be 80 degrees above the horizontal.
Did you notice those are Mesh dishes - which is not used for satellite tv but some sort other C-band radio function. Could be anything from HAM / troposcatter or who knows what else. Parabolic antennas were being used long before it was ever said we had satellites in orbit.
However if you rotate that view clockwise you'll see next to another of the mesh dishes there is an actual satellite TV dish - and it is pointed about 55 degrees from horizontal.
https://www.google.com/maps/@2.7995709,-60.7763506,3a,15y,340.45h,88.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssrlXH5t2LPKGoUWBVwdhYA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Coincidence?

Setec Astronomy

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2016, 05:07:41 AM »
Clarification on my saying "anyone who believes tje wiki as factual reference blah blah" that isn't intended to insult all the FE-ers out there. Its just that the wiki should seem ridiculous to anyone sane, no matter what shape you think the planet is.
The TFES wiki is indeed full of total nonsense. I wouldn't fall for the guise that TFES is actually serious about the flat earth if I were you.

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Offline Rounder

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Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2016, 05:27:23 AM »
It is worth noting also, in response to the satellite dish question, those dishes are aimed higher than they might appear to be.  The horn is offset, so the aim isn't along the low angle seen between the dish and the horn
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Setec Astronomy

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2016, 06:20:36 AM »
It is worth noting also, in response to the satellite dish question, those dishes are aimed higher than they might appear to be.  The horn is offset, so the aim isn't along the low angle seen between the dish and the horn

It's actually a cosecant squared antennae and the parabola is deformed to bend incoming rays like this:


Quite a shame that they've added yet another level of disinfo to the satellite mythos. But there it is.

Re: The Great NASA Conspiracy
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2016, 08:12:33 AM »
It is worth noting also, in response to the satellite dish question, those dishes are aimed higher than they might appear to be.  The horn is offset, so the aim isn't along the low angle seen between the dish and the horn

It's actually a cosecant squared antennae and the parabola is deformed to bend incoming rays like this:


Quite a shame that they've added yet another level of disinfo to the satellite mythos. But there it is.
It all makes sense. Fact. Satellites work.