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Messages - AATW

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1
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: March 14, 2025, 09:49:07 AM »
However, I am not too sure why you are concerned and appear to care about the success of America, considering that your own country is failing significantly
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-countries-in-the-world

D’oh!

3
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: March 14, 2025, 07:51:27 AM »
Your narrative of small surcharges on Canadian and Mexican goods causing this is a terrible take.
Now try responding to what I actually said, not what you're imagining I did.

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Here is NY Post to set you straight

Literally the first line of the article:
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Wall Street is puking big-time, and the Sell buttons are working overtime whenever the word “tariff” passes from Donald Trump’s lips

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This situation will likely correct itself
Well, maybe. But the recent drop IS caused by Trump shouting TARIFF every 5 minutes and the fact that no-one knows what he's going to do next, least of all him.
The markets do not like uncertainty.

4
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: March 14, 2025, 07:51:11 AM »
Your narrative of small surcharges on Canadian and Mexican goods causing this is a terrible take.
Now try responding to what I actually said, not what you're imagining I did.

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Here is NY Post to set you straight

Literally the first line of the article:
Quote
Wall Street is puking big-time, and the Sell buttons are working overtime whenever the word “tariff” passes from Donald Trump’s lips

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This situation will likely correct itself
Well, maybe. But the recent drop IS caused by Trump shouting TARIF every 5 minutes and the fact that no-one knows what he's going to do next, least of all him.
The markets do not like uncertainty.


5
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: March 13, 2025, 08:16:36 PM »
And did you see how much it gained in the previous two years prior to that?
And who was president when that was going on?

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It's called a correction.
And what a coincidence that it happened just as Trump started flailing around shouting “TARIF” at everyone.
The markets actually went up when he first became president. Then everyone realised he has no idea what he’s doing. No strategy. No one knows what he’s going to do next, least of all Trump. The markets hate uncertainty, that’s why everything is tanking.

6
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: March 13, 2025, 07:25:32 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gdwgjkk1no

It’s almost like the economy is being run by someone who has had multiple failed businesses

Only a retart would doom about the stock market dropping a few percent.
8.5% in the last month.
When was the last monthly drop that big?

7
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Is Earth rotating faster?
« on: March 13, 2025, 01:47:15 PM »
Remember what I was telling everyone here some three years ago: for a real pandemic you need a huge volcanic eruption

No I don't

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which is exactly what happened on October 12, 1918 (the largest eruption of the century, Katla). It was the dust from comet Halley (1910) which caused the influenza pandemic.
Citation needed. And you seem to have skilled the "correlation does not imply causation" lesson in science class.

For a pandemic you need something airborne, high population density and a global travel network so people can get around quickly and spread it efficiently.
The second and third of those are in place. The reason Ebola has never become a global pandemic is it's missing the first of those things so while it's very serious it's relatively easy to contain. Flu-like things such as Covid, not so much.

8
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Is Earth rotating faster?
« on: March 13, 2025, 08:55:28 AM »
This was filmed in Kiev, just last night:
And what's going on in Ukraine right now which could offer a different explanation for what that is? Did you even look at the text? I did, and used Google to translate. It says:

"Ahahaha, a meteorite? Yeah, let's have an alien landing.
PS: if anything, our air defense forces will handle them too."

There's no claim made that it's the moon. The implication of the bit I've bolded is that it's a missile or drone. Which makes a whole lot more sense than the moon going at that speed which would surely have been seen by a lot of people and been a major news story.

9
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Is Earth rotating faster?
« on: March 13, 2025, 08:47:55 AM »
Take a look at the comments, there were other eyewitnesses who were watching the Moon moving faster than usual.
Comments by random people on the internet? Well, there's no way that can be inaccurate then.
I've offered a few possibilities. Do your own tests. Isn't that the Zetetic way.

10
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Nuclear Bombs Do Not Exist
« on: March 12, 2025, 11:16:56 AM »
Do you think that the reluctance to use such weapons around the world since then is only related to the repercussions, or do you think that other variables, such as mutual deterrence, also play a part?
I'd suggest those are more-or-less the same thing. Anyone who dropped a nuke would immediately be the "bad guy" and if it was on a country which either had nuclear capabilities or is ally with one it would almost certainly lead to a retaliation and then it could all escalate into MAD. I don't think anyone is quite mad enough to press the button. And in real life of course there isn't a button - there are checks and balances. Maybe not in North Korea but I don't think even Putin literally has a button on his desk marked "Nuke the West" which he could press on a whim.

11
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Is Earth rotating faster?
« on: March 12, 2025, 11:13:19 AM »
No one can explain the movement of the Moon in that clip.
I'm not sure I particularly believe it. Obviously if it was moving that fast then you'd see that everywhere so why don't you test for yourself?
Possible the foreground object is moving, I can't quite tell what that is. And obviously he's zoomed in - the more you zoom in the more the apparent moving will be. I've been dabbling in astrophotography recently but have borrowed a very basic entry level telescope with a mount which has no motor in it. So I'm constantly having the adjust it to keep the moon in frame, not because it's moving "quickly" but because it's zoomed in.
It's cloudy today, next time it's clear I can have a go at taking a video but as I said you can too wherever you are.

12
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: March 11, 2025, 06:39:48 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gdwgjkk1no

It’s almost like the economy is being run by someone who has had multiple failed businesses

13
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Nuclear Bombs Do Not Exist
« on: March 10, 2025, 02:53:34 PM »
Suspiciously, no one anywhere ever uses them! Wow! It must be because humanity is so strong willed and moral
No, it's because of the consequences of using them.
The only time they've been used in the context of a war is when no-one else had them.
And lol @ the idea that Japan surrendered because of "propaganda" and not because two of their cities had been absolutely flattened in a way not possible with conventional weapons.

14
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Blue Ghost
« on: March 07, 2025, 04:21:40 PM »
There are a multitude of alternative explanations for the existence of GPS.
OK. And which of those do you believe and what is your evidence for it?
Or is your belief just a different faith claim?

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RE-adherents have a terrible habit of blatantly ignoring the willful, open disinformation campaigns waged by world-wide governments and corporations since the dawn of time
I don't think anyone believes that governments or corporations are shining beacons of truth or integrity.
But that doesn't mean they lie about literally everything and I see no reason that multiple countries would claim to be able to launch things in to space. If they are pretending to be able to that then they're making it hard for themselves by publishing so many photos and so much video from the missions which can be analysed. It would probably be easier if they hadn't done all the ISS stuff too, especially as you can see it from the ground. And are the companies providing satellite TV just sending out millions of dishes which don't really point at anything? I know from personal experience that mine is pointing at something - when a neighbour did some work on his house which needed some scaffolding it blocked the signal. I've also observed on work trips to countries near the equator that the dishes there point up at a noticeably steeper angle.
Why are the Japanese publishing pictures of Apollo landing sites? What do they gain from backing up the US narrative? Why are people at Jodrell Bank in the UK and people in Australia saying they were tracking the Apollo craft and relaying signals? Are they in on it? Why? While we're here, why are NASA handing out contracts to 3rd parties anyway? That's another lot of people who need to be in on it and kept quiet.

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and simply state the space race is real, cause "daddy told me so," or the "New York Times reports..."
Well, no. I've seen a shuttle launch. I've listed above the other pieces of evidence I've seen and evaluated.
Your turn. What evidence do you have that GPS is ground based or that the space race didn't happen and satellites aren't really orbiting?
What is that thing in the sky if it isn't a space station? Those people who are currently stranded on it - where are they really?

15
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Blue Ghost
« on: March 07, 2025, 10:11:47 AM »
I've wondered about this.  Did every person who claim to be a Zetetist personally test the COVID vaccine before they got it?  Have they performed all the research and experiments for Global Warming before they accepted it as true? 

I've come to realize that Zeteticism means that information that I already believe is true, or that I want to believe is true, is true.  If I don't believe it, then there's no reason to investigate further.  The mere fact that I don't believe something is evidence that it is not true.  It isn't a philosphy of believe what you see, it's a philosophy of see what you believe and ignore everything else. 

It's very child-like, almost magical thinking.
Firstly, it's just bizarre that Tom thinks it's in some way fishy that NASA would award contracts to 3rd parties and then want some oversight or governance on what they're doing. Does he think they just go "here's 200 million dollars, tell us when it's on the moon!". Of course there's some governance on what the contractor is doing with the money.
My point was it's another set of people who have to be "in on it", people who don't work for the government, even if they're working on government contracts. My old company used to work on government contracts so I'd be doing work on those. That doesn't mean I was in any way working for the government, they just happened to be awarding some of our contracts.

Secondly, this whole Zetetic thing. Jeran went to Antarctica for TFE and both literally and metaphorically saw the light. He observed the 24 hour sun and has stepped away from FE as a result. I saw a video from...I think Dave McKeegan where he talked about it. He commended Jeran for intellectual honesty - Jeran saw something which contradicted his beliefs and instead of trying to hand-wave it away or reconcile it with his beliefs somehow, he resolved the contradiction by changing his beliefs. That is how progress is made. But Dave did also comment on the fact that Jeran had to see it for himself before he believed it. Which I think is how some people on here operate. The Wiki says:
"using zeteticism one bases his conclusions on experimentation and observation".
OK, but you can't observe everything, you have to have some strategy for forming beliefs about things you can't directly observe. For me that's by assessing how plausible and well evidenced claims are. If NASA were claiming to have teleported people to the moon in 1969 then I'd be raising an eyebrow. Teleportation doesn't exist. But they were using technologies which do demonstrably exist and you can see in the Apollo missions leading up to XI how they tested all the technologies and techniques they would need for the final landing. Apart from the landing itself but even then they had that flying bedstead thing which allowed him to approximate that. Plus it's all on film and many of the protagonists are still alive. Then there's all the 3rd party evidence - I mentioned Jodrell Bank and the Australians before, more recently a Japanese probe took photos of the Apollo landing sites. I'd say the evidence is pretty strong. It just feels like too many FE people just don't bother looking in to any of this and declare it all fake because it contradicts their beliefs without. An example, a thread I posted some years back:

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=17989.msg236209#msg236209

3 VFX artists reviewing the footage and basically concluding that with the technology available in 1969 it would have been pretty much impossible to fake it. It was way before CGI, now you can basically do anything. Note how the thread immediately devolves in to baseless claims about fakery - how the astronauts behaved in the press conference, the old Van Allen belts thing. All the incredulity and ignorance I mentioned above. No-one comments directly on the video I posted.

16
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Blue Ghost
« on: March 06, 2025, 09:40:21 PM »
The list you provided only claims "space travel" as a reason for their development...like thermometers wouldn't exist unless space travel happened...

C'mon...
It's claimed that a certain type of thermometer was developed as part of the research for the space race - obviously thermometers existed before space travel existed.

But my point was more the other way around - technologies like GPS exist and work because of the space race. The ISS can be seen from the ground. Have a look.

17
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Blue Ghost
« on: March 06, 2025, 05:57:58 PM »
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We have multiple technologies which very much rely on it being real.
I could be wrong, but I think AATW cannot provide one instance of any piece of technology relying on space travel as a reason for existence (i.e., "The reason "whatchamacallit" exists is due to space travel.")
A fair amount of technology and products were developed because of the space race.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spin-off_technologies

But my point above is that technologies like GPS and satellite TV only work because of satellites orbiting the earth.
As I said in my reply to Pete, the ISS can be seen from the ground and with decent optics you can make out its shape.

18
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Blue Ghost
« on: March 06, 2025, 05:55:03 PM »
a new opportunity to inspect the claim.
Inspect away! Who's stopping you?
Well, no-one. But I accept the claim. I've watched some video of the landing and it orbiting the moon but I don't feel the need to inspect it or micro-analyse every frame of it.
I don't have the skills to anyway - the people who call all this sort of stuff fake definitely don't either.
I am interested in all this stuff. I've seen a Shuttle launch - more by luck than judgement, just happened to be in Florida on holiday when one was going up.
I've visited the Kennedy space centre a few times, watched some documentaries about it all. I read "A Man On The Moon" - an excellent book about the Apollo programme and touches on the Gemini and Mercury ones that preceded it. I've read about how Jodrell Bank were tracking Apollo 11 - and an unmanned Russian mission that was trying to land first. I've read how the Australians were relaying signals from the Apollo craft to the US.
I've done what I practically can and based on the evidence I've seen I'm satisfied that it all happened. Rocket technology demonstrably exists, it's not like they're claiming to have teleported there. All the stuff I've seen about it being a hoax are based on ignorance or incredulity. All of it.

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Maybe. What do you propose? You just keep saying "inspect" and "investigate", but what specifically do you want us to do (presumably free of charge), and why aren't you doing it yourself. I think part of the problem is that you're asking us to veer away from Zeteticism. We're primarily interested in exploring the phenomena around us, and it sounds to me that you expect us to read a news article and emptily debate it.
I've covered the why aren't I doing it above. I've suggested some things above which could be done.
Fair point about Zeteticism, but you must have some strategy for coming to beliefs about stuff you can't directly experience.
Mine is to evaluate the evidence. What other option is there?

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and you're expressing frustration that they're not playing ball with you.
I'm just surprised that more effort isn't put in to this. OK, going in to space isn't that accessible, but you can go see rocket launches for yourself (easier for those in the US, admittedly). With decent optics you can see the ISS. Most FE people seem to just put it all in one big box marked "FAKE" and leave it at that.
I guess the reason I see this as something you'd want to be looking in to more is that it's a discriminator between the two models.
If there are things like GPS satellites and the ISS orbiting the earth, if there are things orbiting the moon and landing on it then I'd submit that the FE model as presented in the Wiki isn't possible.
I think you dispute that, and I'd be interested in your ideas about that, but most FE people seem to just call it all fake without putting much effort in to assessing the evidence.

19
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: March 06, 2025, 04:26:03 PM »
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFsyXbvuc0Y/

Half of you like the horse. You weirdos.

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