[Dual1ty]

If you are relying on North Star alone for navigation, you aren't following your globe chart anymore. You need to adjust the globe chart to FE chart so that it matches your actual trajectory.

That makes no sense whatsoever I’m afraid. In the scenario I described, I said the ship would use the ‘globe chart’ to determine the required heading of 180 degrees true. I then said the ship sets off on a heading dictated by keeping the North Star to its stern. You said if it did that it would miss by 15 degrees, that being the local declination.

So I’m saying you can test that by taking a ‘globe chart’ and seeing if the North Star aligns with the lines of longitude on it. If it does, as I suggest it will, then I put it to you that the ship would, in fact, successfully navigate to its destination, as countless seafarers have done over the years, using the same method and the same charts.

It does make sense. Guy in the video said that when you think you're navigating in a circle on the globe, you're actually navigating in an ellipse on FE.

You said if it did that it would miss by 15 degrees

I did not.

[SteelyBob]

It does make sense. Guy in the video said that when you think you're navigating in a circle on the globe, you're actually navigating in an ellipse on FE.

So will you do the experiment, or not?

[Dual1ty]

It does make sense. Guy in the video said that when you think you're navigating in a circle on the globe, you're actually navigating in an ellipse on FE.

So will you do the experiment, or not?

It is based on fallacy, so no. Because you said that I said that it would miss it by 15 degrees and I did not say that. Lie.

[SteelyBob]

It is based on fallacy, so no. Because you said that I said that it would miss it by 15 degrees and I did not say that. Lie.

You said (b) - if you’d like to clarify your answer go ahead.

[AATW]

Guy in the video

Why do you believe the "guy in the video"?
You make a great show of disbelieving any authority, why are you randomly believing this bloke? Because he's agreeing with your worldview?
You said earlier in the thread your research has led you to the belief that the world is flat. My belief about that is you have made a mistake somewhere.
But either way why not publish all your research so it can be reviewed?
You have been shown ways you can test some of your claims and have shown no interest in performing any of those tests.

[Dual1ty]

It is based on fallacy, so no. Because you said that I said that it would miss it by 15 degrees and I did not say that. Lie.

You said (b) - if you’d like to clarify your answer go ahead.

Lying once doesn't make you look good.

Lying twice makes you look like a liar.

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I already explained it. Makes no sense to use a fake globe map and assume that the locations are what the fake globe map tells you. The only way the globe map works is because of declination.

When you use celestial navigation ONLY, you are no longer in globe la la land. So again, makes no sense to assume that you are navigating a globe geography like you assume.

[SteelyBob]

[

Lying once doesn't make you look good.

Lying twice makes you look like a liar.

---------------------------------------------

I already explained it. Makes no sense to use a fake globe map and assume that the locations are what the fake globe map tells you. The only way the globe map works is because of declination.

When you use celestial navigation ONLY, you are no longer in globe la la land. So again, makes no sense to assume that you are navigating a globe geography like you assume.

So, if I want to navigate using celestial navigation only, which map should I use to determine the direction I need to go in?

[Dual1ty]

[

Lying once doesn't make you look good.

Lying twice makes you look like a liar.

---------------------------------------------

I already explained it. Makes no sense to use a fake globe map and assume that the locations are what the fake globe map tells you. The only way the globe map works is because of declination.

When you use celestial navigation ONLY, you are no longer in globe la la land. So again, makes no sense to assume that you are navigating a globe geography like you assume.

So, if I want to navigate using celestial navigation only, which map should I use to determine the direction I need to go in?

I would say a globe map in most cases because you are still navigating FE geography when using a globe map applied to celestial navigation. But in your North Star example you have to use a FE map, because you are directly aligned to it and you're not using any other stars, and you're only going one direction away from the NS.

[SteelyBob]

But in your North Star example you have to use a FE map,

Which one, exactly?

[Dual1ty]

But in your North Star example you have to use a FE map,

Which one, exactly?

The one that results from correcting the map that has been manipulated to fit a globe.

[SteelyBob]

The one that results from correcting the map that has been manipulated to fit a globe.

Do please post a picture of this map.

[Dual1ty]

The one that results from correcting the map that has been manipulated to fit a globe.

Do please post a picture of this map.

Why can't you do the math and produce the map yourself, since you're the teacher? That is obviously your demeanor here. Fake globe teacher.

[SteelyBob]

The one that results from correcting the map that has been manipulated to fit a globe.

Do please post a picture of this map.

Why can't you do the math and produce the map yourself, since you're the teacher? That is obviously your demeanor here. Fake globe teacher.

How would I go about producing a FE map? I haven’t the faintest idea how to start and nor, it would seem, does anybody on this site, given that there a several maps offered as possibilities on the wiki and nobody, yourself included, seems to want to commit to one.

So if you can’t produce a map, where does leave our would-be sailor? You seem to be suggesting that attempting to obtain true headings from globe charts will end in failure, despite navigators the world over doing precisely that for hundreds of years. It’s worth pointing out that a lot of navigation is done now without recourse to magnetic compasses, and yet strangely nobody goes off on the wrong heading. Could it be that the globe charts are in fact correct?

Maybe you could go outside and check for yourself, as I’ve suggested? Maybe you don’t want to, because you know deep down that what you would find would challenge your prior beliefs. Or maybe you’re just trolling. I guess we’ll never know.

[Dual1ty]

So if you can’t produce a map

I didn't say I couldn't try. My idea is that you can work with the globe map and the declinations that they give you. This would be a plausible way to produce a FE map, once you correct the globe map for no declination. Do you not understand that?

The rest of your comment ignores what I already said and includes "maybe you're just trolling" card, so not worth addressing.

[SteelyBob]

[My idea is that you can work with the globe map and the declinations that they give you. This would be a plausible way to produce a FE map, once you correct the globe map for no declination. Do you not understand that?

So your map would change continually with the changing declinations? Have you thought this through?

[Dual1ty]

[My idea is that you can work with the globe map and the declinations that they give you. This would be a plausible way to produce a FE map, once you correct the globe map for no declination. Do you not understand that?

So your map would change continually with the changing declinations? Have you thought this through?

Not really, no. I just got home from work a couple of hours ago, and now you're asking me to produce a FE map because if there's no FE map apparently the Earth must be a globe - said the globe cult member.

[SteelyBob]

[

Not really, no. I just got home from work a couple of hours ago, and now you're asking me to produce a FE map because if there's no FE map apparently the Earth must be a globe - said the globe cult member.

Well, at least you’re admitting that you haven’t thought something through. Why don’t you give it some thought, try the north-south landmark experiment that I suggested, and come back when you’ve got your thoughts in order. Maybe you could come up with a straight answer to the ship question too.

[Dual1ty]

[

Not really, no. I just got home from work a couple of hours ago, and now you're asking me to produce a FE map because if there's no FE map apparently the Earth must be a globe - said the globe cult member.

Well, at least you’re admitting that you haven’t thought something through. Why don’t you give it some thought, try the north-south landmark experiment that I suggested, and come back when you’ve got your thoughts in order. Maybe you could come up with a straight answer to the ship question too.

No, I did think about that one. Instead of rebutting my answer, you asked me to produce a FE map. So here we are. I noticed that's always the "checkmate argument" from the glober, that there is no FE map.

Meanwhile, I already know that the globe only exists as a map.

[SteelyBob]

[

Not really, no. I just got home from work a couple of hours ago, and now you're asking me to produce a FE map because if there's no FE map apparently the Earth must be a globe - said the globe cult member.

Well, at least you’re admitting that you haven’t thought something through. Why don’t you give it some thought, try the north-south landmark experiment that I suggested, and come back when you’ve got your thoughts in order. Maybe you could come up with a straight answer to the ship question too.

No, I did think about that one. Instead of rebutting my answer, you asked me to produce a FE map. So here we are. I noticed that's always the "checkmate argument" from the glober, that there is no FE map.

You said to do celestial navigation you’d need a FE map. But you don’t have a FE map, and yet people can and do undertake celestial navigation. Doesn’t that suggest to you that maybe you might wrong?

The fact that nobody has a credible FE map isn’t check mate, it’s just embarrassing. I don’t really like the term ‘check mate’, to be honest, because it suggests win/lose. I’m not trying to defeat you here - I’m trying to persuade you of something, and maybe learn something myself. If somebody proves me wrong, I welcome it.

That said, the critical part of this debate is the ship question. You initially said (b), but then said that you didn’t say that, but also didn’t say what the answer really is. And that’s because you know that to commit to either answer massively undermines your position, so your best bet is to distract from it.

[Dual1ty]

You said to do celestial navigation you’d need a FE map.

If you keep lying like that, I'm simply going to block you. Everybody can see what my answers were. You keep lying repeatedly. Why?