Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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Flat Earthers: Is the Van Allen radiation belt real?
« on: December 26, 2015, 07:21:14 PM »
If NASA can't launch satellite, how would they know there's a radiation belt around Earth?
Or if it doesn't exist, why would they make up a dangerous zone for spacecraft and Astronauts to pass?
And why does most scientist from across the world accept it's existence?
What is the Van Allen radiation belt in the flat Earth model you believe?
The size of the Solar system if the Moon were only 1 pixel:
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earthers: Is the Van Allen radiation belt real?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2015, 06:26:58 AM »
It is important to understand that the "discoveries" NASA makes are things which astronomers of the past long predicted under a Round Earth model.

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Flat Earthers: Is the Van Allen radiation belt real?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2015, 02:38:56 PM »
It is important to understand that the "discoveries" NASA makes are things which astronomers of the past long predicted under a Round Earth model.

The unanswered question is, ... 

If the Van Allen Belts don't exist,  what purpose does it serve the conspiracy to make them up?   


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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earthers: Is the Van Allen radiation belt real?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2015, 03:50:31 PM »
It is important to understand that the "discoveries" NASA makes are things which astronomers of the past long predicted under a Round Earth model.

The unanswered question is, ... 

If the Van Allen Belts don't exist,  what purpose does it serve the conspiracy to make them up?

The radiation belts were predicted long before NASA even existed, as a consequence of the magnetic fields. It serves NASA to confirm the existence of such things because it fits the model astronomers already believe. It makes it all more believable.

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Flat Earthers: Is the Van Allen radiation belt real?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2015, 02:04:31 AM »
It is important to understand that the "discoveries" NASA makes are things which astronomers of the past long predicted under a Round Earth model.

The unanswered question is, ... 

If the Van Allen Belts don't exist,  what purpose does it serve the conspiracy to make them up?

The radiation belts were predicted long before NASA even existed, as a consequence of the magnetic fields. It serves NASA to confirm the existence of such things because it fits the model astronomers already believe. It makes it all more believable.

Not quite true,   James Van Allen  ( University of Iowa,  )  predicted them,  and designed the probes that detected the radiation belts in 1958,   the same year that NASA was founded.

So for your hypothesis to be true, all the associated scientific evidence and experimental data must have been faked.   

In a more general sense what scientific evidence,  if any,  does flat earth theory permit?  Is the University of Iowa in on the conspiracy as well?





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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earthers: Is the Van Allen radiation belt real?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2015, 02:13:47 AM »
Not quite true,   James Van Allen  ( University of Iowa,  )  predicted them,  and designed the probes that detected the radiation belts in 1958,   the same year that NASA was founded.

So for your hypothesis to be true, all the associated scientific evidence and experimental data must have been faked.   

In a more general sense what scientific evidence,  if any,  does flat earth theory permit?  Is the University of Iowa in on the conspiracy as well?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt#Discovery

Quote
Discovery

Kristian Birkeland, Carl Størmer, and Nicholas Christofilos had investigated the possibility of trapped charged particles before the Space Age.[3] Explorer 1 and Explorer 3 confirmed the existence of the belt in early 1958 under James Van Allen

http://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/whtrap1.html

Quote
Trapped Radiation -- History

The trapping of particles by magnetic fields was first studied by Kristian Birkeland in Norway, starting around 1895. Birkeland aimed beams of electrons (called "cathode rays" in those days) at a magnet inside a vacuum chamber, and noted that they seemed to be channeled towards its near magnetic pole. He then asked his former teacher, the renowned French mathematician Henri Poincaré, to examine their motion. Poincaré managed to solve the motion of charged particles near an isolated magnetic pole, showing that they spiraled around field lines and that they were repelled from regions of strong field.
Stoermer's Calculations

An isolated magnetic pole is a mathematical abstraction and has not been observed (though a few people keep trying). Later Birkeland built bigger vacuum chambers and replaced the magnet with a magnetized sphere or "terrella" representing the Earth, noting that the electrons were channeled towards both its poles. A more practical problem, therefore, was particle motion near a compact bar magnet or "dipole", which better modeled the field of the Earth or of his terrella. Birkeland therefore suggested that problem to a friend, the mathematician Carl Stoermer, who devoted to it an appreciable part of his career. Stoemer never found a full solution, a formula which would predict the particle's motion to all time, like the formula for the motion of a single planet around an isolated sun. In fact, none exists in conventional mathematical terms, because the motion is inherently intricate (in today's terms, a "chaotic motion," an area pioneered by Poincaré). But he did show that large families of orbits would remain trapped forever.

The orbits Stoermer was most concerned with belonged to particles with rather high energies. In general they did not resemble tidy spirals, because they covered large sections of the magnetic field, and in the course of each excursion around the field, the intensity and direction of the magnetic field did not stay the same but varied appreciably. Later, when cosmic rays were discovered, it turned out that Stoermer's theory applied quite well to their motion: but it did not solve the mystery of the polar aurora, as Stoermer had hoped.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 02:25:15 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Flat Earthers: Is the Van Allen radiation belt real?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2015, 03:11:17 AM »
So the prediction and discovery of the Van Allen radiation belts  both preceded the founding of NASA.   
Explorer 1 was Launched in January 31 1958,  ( as part of the International Geophysical Year 1957)   NASA wasn't founded until later that year, July 29 1958,

Doesn't seem like a part of the NASA conspiracy if that's the case.

Do you think the University of Iowa part of the conspiracy?



Re: Flat Earthers: Is the Van Allen radiation belt real?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2015, 04:58:39 AM »
First, let me say I am totally new to this forum but am an FE believer after having found other FE believers on YouTube and (temporarily) IFERS.  I am no scientist, chemist, just a plain ordinary person searching for truth.  My question is:  If the Van Allen belt is somehow created by the magnetization at the North Pole, could it be possible for spacecraft to dodge the Belt by lifting off from the "Southern" continents?  It is my understanding that in the Flat Earth model only the North Pole is magnetized.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  If you wonder about my temporary stint on the IFERS forum, I was banned and I know not why.
Thanks very much. :)

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earthers: Is the Van Allen radiation belt real?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2015, 08:38:26 AM »
So the prediction and discovery of the Van Allen radiation belts  both preceded the founding of NASA.   
Explorer 1 was Launched in January 31 1958,  ( as part of the International Geophysical Year 1957)   NASA wasn't founded until later that year, July 29 1958,

Doesn't seem like a part of the NASA conspiracy if that's the case.

Do you think the University of Iowa part of the conspiracy?

I just linked to sources which show that a radiation belt was predicted decades before NASA was founded.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earthers: Is the Van Allen radiation belt real?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2015, 09:31:43 AM »
   
Do you think the University of Iowa part of the conspiracy?

Students and instructors at universities are easily conned into performing uncompensated theoretical research, which NASA parades around to the public and Congress as evidence of legitimacy. It's a money saver. It means NASA doesn't have to do it themselves and associates them with a good name.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 09:33:14 AM by Tom Bishop »

Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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Re: Flat Earthers: Is the Van Allen radiation belt real?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2015, 05:51:31 PM »
First, let me say I am totally new to this forum but am an FE believer after having found other FE believers on YouTube and (temporarily) IFERS.  I am no scientist, chemist, just a plain ordinary person searching for truth.  My question is:  If the Van Allen belt is somehow created by the magnetization at the North Pole, could it be possible for spacecraft to dodge the Belt by lifting off from the "Southern" continents?  It is my understanding that in the Flat Earth model only the North Pole is magnetized.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  If you wonder about my temporary stint on the IFERS forum, I was banned and I know not why.
Thanks very much. :)

If only the North pole is magnetized in a flat Earth, the belt will be on the edge ring. The model is wrong because the North magnetic pole is located at Northern Canada and the South magnetic pole is located in the Southern Ocean (near, but outside Antarctica).
The size of the Solar system if the Moon were only 1 pixel:
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Flat Earthers: Is the Van Allen radiation belt real?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2015, 02:16:44 AM »
   
Do you think the University of Iowa part of the conspiracy?

Students and instructors at universities are easily conned into performing uncompensated theoretical research, which NASA parades around to the public and Congress as evidence of legitimacy. It's a money saver. It means NASA doesn't have to do it themselves and associates them with a good name.

It's not just  University of Iowa,  it's many many more universities,  not just in North America, but around the world. 
So you really do believe they are all being conned by NASA.     Well,  not just NASA,  but every other Space Agency as well.   

Incredible.