1021

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: August 07, 2019, 08:50:24 PM »

I don’t think it’s fair to pin this type of stuff on someone. There is a great chance that if Trump weren’t around, then the shooter would have clung to some other inspiration for his delusion.

So when people talk about how dangerous Trump's incendiary and violent words are when describing the border crisis, what do you think they're talking about?

We have a President who refers to incoming migrants as an invasion; who warns that they are rapists, and murderers, and gang members. And what's more we have a government that's not willing to do anything about it! Small wonder that some might look at that as a call to arms.

I'm not saying every time someone goes on a shooting rampage Trump is to blame. But it would be disingenuous to ignore his role in a massacre at the border by a shooter whose sentiments certainly match Trump's, and who allegedly published a manifesto echoing his own language. Come on.

Even Trump seems to recognize there's something to it, otherwise he wouldn't have frantically deleted all his tweets where he refers to the Mexican "invasion" in the wake of the shooting.

1022

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: August 07, 2019, 01:16:31 PM »

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/07/trump-gun-access-restrictions-1449663

So not only is his rhetoric spurring lunatics with guns to take personal action against the dangerous invasion taking place at our borders, his policies are actually making it easier for those lunatics to get those guns in the first place. No wonder he wants to focus on the influence of video games or what the fuck ever in the gun debate.

1023

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Robert “Beto” O’Rourke laughs at El Paso shooting

« on: August 04, 2019, 05:10:37 PM »

Uh oh. It looks like the veneer was just washed off Robert’s agenda. And I’d venture to say all the other Democrats had a similar reaction. Now, with a second shooting occurring only an hour or so ago in Ohio, they’ll probably go full tilt with gun control in their campaigns. I don’t think they’ll be able to take down the 2nd Amendment, but I can see most blue states banning rifle ammo over the course of the next couple of years.

0:43

U b trollin.  That was a heartfelt display of genuine emotion.

Anyway I'll take your bait. Which Democrats, specifically, have called for abolishing the 2nd Amendment in the wake of these tragedies? That always seems like a talking point for the Right when these things happen (politicizing a tragedy, if ya can believe it), but I don't see where it has any real substance.

1024

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: August 02, 2019, 04:41:06 PM »

As far as your secret, you have a hard time convincing anyone that lower and middle class America is being destroyed, because that is the supposed audience this magical talking point is directed.

Trump's audience is not those people.

Wait, you're saying Trump's "audience" (as if he wasn't the entire country's President but whatever) is exclusively the rich and privileged?

1025

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why should the Earth be flat?

« on: July 29, 2019, 01:06:18 AM »

Hmm.  My first response was deleted.  let's see if this one sticks.

RE Theory has a similarity in the way smaller objects like asteroids tend to be irregular, and the larger an object gets the more likely it is to form spherically, until you reach very large scales like galaxies, which tend to be flat;

2 problems with this theory.  1, galaxies are not solid objects, but collections of billions of individual stars.  There has never been a solid, celestial sized object observed to be anything other than (roughly) a sphere.

Yes there has. The Earth. And clearly nothing else in the observable universe even compares.

2, some galaxies are relatively flat because the billions of starts are rotating around the common center of mass.  I have not ready anything in FE theory suggesting the earth is spinning fast enough to flatten out into a disc.

It's not spinning at all. I wasn't saying they formed in the same way. How the Earth or a galaxy comes to be flat is irrelevant, the point is simply that there's an analogy to RET of not everything in the universe being spherical. Based on the evidence we have to assume that in FET the default shape for very large objects is flat, at least until we come across another object in the universe that contradicts that assumption.

1026

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why should the Earth be flat?

« on: July 21, 2019, 02:47:16 PM »

very large objects like the Earth tend to be flat, while smaller objects like the sun and planets tend to be spherical

Does this mean that you think the Sun is smaller than the Earth then?  If so wrong my friend, seriously wrong! You could fit around 1 million Earths inside the Sun.

We should not expect that the Earth's great size compared to the observable heavenly bodies

The Earth looks big to us because compared to us it is and we live on it. I'm not going to go into why the Sun and Moon look the same size on the sky (1/2 degree) even though they are not physically the same size as it is well known why that is.  The Earth is neither the smallest nor the largest planet of course.  It is kind of just about midway.

You should really actually acquaint yourself with Flat Earth Theory before trying to argue against it. I recommend reading the cosmology sections of the wiki and then maybe come back if you have any further questions.

1027

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why should the Earth be flat?

« on: July 21, 2019, 06:07:51 AM »

The Earth is different from those other bodies. It's much, much larger, for example.

Not entirely sure what your point is here.  Care to elaborate a bit more?

We should not expect that the Earth's great size compared to the observable heavenly bodies would not have some kind of effect on how it came into its shape.

RE Theory has a similarity in the way smaller objects like asteroids tend to be irregular, and the larger an object gets the more likely it is to form spherically, until you reach very large scales like galaxies, which tend to be flat; in RE Theory if you scale it out to universe size, shape can only really be accurately comprehended in four dimensions!

All that we suggest, by contrast, is that very large objects like the Earth tend to be flat, while smaller objects like the sun and planets tend to be spherical.

1028

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why should the Earth be flat?

« on: July 20, 2019, 01:47:47 PM »

The Earth is different from those other bodies. It's much, much larger, for example.

1029

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: July 19, 2019, 04:02:17 PM »

Please quote me any of those women doing something different.  Saying America is bad.

It is out there...

I don't expect you to look for it as you are truly not interested

lol, it's a baseless claim until you can show evidence of it... see, this is the sort of thing that makes people look on Trump supporters as "mindless drones". You love repeating the President's lies, and when asked to show that they're not lies all  you can offer is a weak  "oh, it's out there, believe me!"

If it's out there show us where, otherwise it's another baseless claim meant to rile up the mindless drones who follow him... and you're just a mindless drone for blindly repeating it.

And I truly am interested, by the way. If one of our elected officials is truly on the record saying they hate America, I don't want that elected official in office.

And this is the sort of thing that makes people look on "anyonebuttrumpers," as being lazy and disingenuous.

Plenty of instances of all 4 talking about institutional racism (as if there is such a thing), how this country has done nothing but keep them down, how pay isn't equal for women, etc...

In other words talking about problems they see that exist in the country and that they feel need to be addressed.

Again, this is exactly how Trump got elected.

Meanwhile nothing supporting that they think America is bad or that they hate America.

Noted.

Thanks for noting the things they see as existing in the country actually DO NOT EXIST.

And yeah, claiming something America is about, when it really isn't...that = "bad."

Ok... moving the goalposts,  perfectly understandable for someone in your position... it's what people do when they realize they are wrong but don't want to own up to it.

So they never said that America is bad, or that they hate America, or that America has done nothing but bring them down, then?

1030

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: July 19, 2019, 03:30:59 PM »

Actually can you provide a quote where any one of them has said that this country has "done nothing but bring them down"?  I find that assertion a bit unlikely, but it does come closer to saying "America is bad" than anything else you've provided and truly isn't a good look.  Not to mention being disingenuous as they are all elected officials.

1031

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: July 19, 2019, 03:17:40 PM »

Please quote me any of those women doing something different.  Saying America is bad.

It is out there...

I don't expect you to look for it as you are truly not interested

lol, it's a baseless claim until you can show evidence of it... see, this is the sort of thing that makes people look on Trump supporters as "mindless drones". You love repeating the President's lies, and when asked to show that they're not lies all  you can offer is a weak  "oh, it's out there, believe me!"

If it's out there show us where, otherwise it's another baseless claim meant to rile up the mindless drones who follow him... and you're just a mindless drone for blindly repeating it.

And I truly am interested, by the way. If one of our elected officials is truly on the record saying they hate America, I don't want that elected official in office.

And this is the sort of thing that makes people look on "anyonebuttrumpers," as being lazy and disingenuous.

Plenty of instances of all 4 talking about institutional racism (as if there is such a thing), how this country has done nothing but keep them down, how pay isn't equal for women, etc...

In other words talking about problems they see that exist in the country and that they feel need to be addressed.

Again, this is exactly how Trump got elected.

Meanwhile nothing supporting that they think America is bad or that they hate America.

Noted.

1032

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: July 19, 2019, 02:08:11 PM »

Please quote me any of those women doing something different.  Saying America is bad.

It is out there...

I don't expect you to look for it as you are truly not interested

lol, it's a baseless claim until you can show evidence of it... see, this is the sort of thing that makes people look on Trump supporters as "mindless drones". You love repeating the President's lies, and when asked to show that they're not lies all  you can offer is a weak  "oh, it's out there, believe me!"

If it's out there show us where, otherwise it's another baseless claim meant to rile up the mindless drones who follow him... and you're just a mindless drone for blindly repeating it.

And I truly am interested, by the way. If one of our elected officials is truly on the record saying they hate America, I don't want that elected official in office.

1033

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: July 19, 2019, 01:59:26 PM »

And if this defense had any truth to it, or even just plausibility, of course Trump and/or his team would have made the argument rather than have him do what he truly hates and apologize for the comments.

Why? There's an actual thing he's done wrong - he made ridiculous comments about women, which are largely indefensible. He apologised for those.

There is also an unsubstantiated theory (beyond "wow if we interpret his words to mean something he didn't explicitly say but maybe perhaps implied then he arguably claimed to have done so and that's, uh, proof and stuff!!!") that he actually assaulted someone. Rightly, this went entirely unacknowledged by most of the world, including Trump.

See, this is what makes the conspiratorial Dems so funny - there's an actual issue here that nobody could argue against, and a shitty non-apology doesn't change anything. If you simply left it at that, you'd be making some progress. But instead you guys are pushing a more extreme narrative for... reasons. Actually, what are your reasons? Agree with me or not, you already know that this narrative is not helping you in any way. Wouldn't it make more sense to be pragmatic about it?

Even if you're well and truly convinced that we should accuse people of crimes based on the fact that they hypothesised about them (I spent enough time calling you stupid for it, so I'll gloss over it this time), surely you must see that this is largely viewed as ridiculous, and is only bolstering the support for the guy whose support you're hoping to erode.

I never thought there was much meat to the "grab em by the pussy" angle. It's disgusting and awful but seriously far, far from the worst thing about him. The media loves this story and everything about his extramarital dalliances because sex, but giving focus to such non-issues really just makes Democrats look bitter and grasping when there's so much low-hanging fruit for us to be righteously angry about. And trying to claim it's anything more than it really is ( a rich douchebag and known liar bragging that being famous allows him to do pretty much whatever he wants) smacks of desperation at a time that we really shouldn't need to be desperate.

1034

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: July 18, 2019, 11:45:58 PM »

https://theweek.com/speedreads/853634/rep-ilhan-omar-reminds-lindsey-graham-that-once-called-trump-racebaiting-bigot

Amnesia seems to have reached epidemic levels in the Republican party. Someone should look into it!

1035

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: July 18, 2019, 11:27:29 PM »

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/453712-graham-i-dont-remember-anyone-treating-john-mccain-the-way-theyre-treating

Gee I don't know Lindsey, maybe it's because McCain showed respect for Obama as an American citizen rather than angrily proclaiming that he should go back where he came from?

Good lord, Trump's cronies are just grasping at straws trying to justify his behavior now.

1036

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: July 18, 2019, 10:42:37 PM »

You say that as if this line of argument has nothing to do with Trump, even though he's the one most vocally crying that the progressives are trying to make this country socialist.   

I meant an actual thread regarding socialism. If you want to talk about how Trump doesn't understand socialism and uses the term incorrectly, then sure. I was suggesting a thread to discuss and debate what socialism actually is based on definitions. It's obvious from this thread that even most of the anti-Trump folks don't understand what socialism is.

I would say that's largely because of people like Trump pushing a false definition. You can't make this not about Trump no matter how you try.

1037

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: July 18, 2019, 10:28:22 PM »

Someone needs to get the word out!

I think anyone who understands the definition of words already knows!

Since it is clear you have no interest in discussing the topic, let me suggest the thread return to pointing out how awful Trump is. If you change your mind, let's take it to another thread like I suggested previously.

You say that as if this line of argument has nothing to do with Trump, even though he's the one most vocally crying that the progressives are trying to make this country socialist.   

1038

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: July 18, 2019, 10:14:52 PM »

Someone needs to get the word out!

1039

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: July 18, 2019, 10:08:32 PM »

They most certainly are. Any system that involves redistribution of wealth is inherently socialist, because that's what socialism is.

Sigh... No, it isn't (by the literal definition). But this really isn't the thread for that topic.

edit: I wouldn't mind a dedicated topic on socialism. But redistribution of wealth occurs in most every economic system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistribution_of_income_and_wealth#Role_in_economic_systems) and is in no way exclusive to socialism. If you want to go deeper into this, then let's fire up a new thread.

Then the argument can't be made that (say) Medicare For All is inherently socialist either. Nice that that's cleared up.

1040

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: July 18, 2019, 09:29:41 PM »

1 main point of all 4 women:
1) AOC - socialist whack job who auditioned for the part...

Social security is socialist.  Public schools are socialist.  Ya know, fyi.

To be fair, none of those things or people are inherently socialist.

They most certainly are. Any system that involves redistribution of wealth is inherently socialist, because that's what socialism is.