Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1100 on: October 14, 2021, 01:42:49 PM »
What happened to your brother-in-law and sister?

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1101 on: October 14, 2021, 01:56:32 PM »
What happened to your brother-in-law and sister?

Not much really. They died, of course, but so will you and me eventually so it's no big deal.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1102 on: October 14, 2021, 03:51:54 PM »
What happened to your brother-in-law and sister?

They both had terminal illnesses but due to Corona, they couldn't see a doctor so died sooner.  Or something.

So he blames liberals for their deaths.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1103 on: October 14, 2021, 05:53:05 PM »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

True. So what about this:

It is a fact unvaxxed national guard will replace unvaxxed health care workers.

Where's your extraordinary evidence for your extraordinary claim?
I have posted that evidence.

There is ZERO evidence any virus is more easily spread in a hospital.

You are just another conspiracy theorist cosigning for a conspiracy theorist.

What evidence did you post that says, "It is a fact unvaxxed national guard will replace unvaxxed health care workers."? Are you referring to the Jimmy Dore comedy bit as evidence? If so, that's hilarious. Not Jimmy Dore, you using him as evidence.

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Offline junker

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1104 on: October 15, 2021, 04:47:01 AM »
lackey rant...

Take a week to cool off. Keep it in AR. Next one will probably be permanent.


Action80, saying someone else needs to back up his claims with evidence.  Ha ha ha... Hahahaha...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Sorry. Thanks for the laugh, lackey.

Keep it in CN/AR. Warned.



Lastly, Rama, try not engaging with lackey if you are just going to report every reply he makes to you.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 04:49:52 AM by junker »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1105 on: October 16, 2021, 03:14:25 PM »
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/top-doctors-and-scientists-sue-the-fda-to-obtain-the-data-used-to-approve-pfizer-jab/

The data used to approve the vaccine was not publicly released and the FDA is actively fighting to keep it secret. Despicable.

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Offline Iceman

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1106 on: October 16, 2021, 03:48:39 PM »
While I agree that all the data should be made public, I cant get through that shite-ly written article.

"A group of highly educated doctors and medical scientists" - I suppose they would have to be highly educated, wouldnt they?

"they used to justify approving the experimental, abortion-tainted COVID-19 Pfizer jab." -  abortion tainted links to this story https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/babies-were-aborted-alive-placed-in-fridge-to-harvest-cell-lines-used-in-some-vaccines-researcher/ where the first sentence is about how their content has been banned from YouTube.

That article complains about "aborted babies" that seem to involve full hysterectomies - likely a medical emergency for the mother, where the fetus is placed into a refrigerator to protect it from contamination from any external sources.

Insinuation being that the Pfizer jab is a vaccine made from baby flesh that was forcefully ripped from good, God-fearing Americans by greedy big pharma so they can use Biden to make money and go be paedos together. Sensational.

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1107 on: October 16, 2021, 04:01:32 PM »
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/top-doctors-and-scientists-sue-the-fda-to-obtain-the-data-used-to-approve-pfizer-jab/

The data used to approve the vaccine was not publicly released and the FDA is actively fighting to keep it secret. Despicable.
You pick and destroy details of peer reviewed studies but you believe this stuff?

an anonymous fake website with links to fake data... published by...  some dude...

I am just a concerned citizen reporting on often overlooked public data regarding adverse events related to the new Covid-19 vaccines. I work with data for a living and have been in the technology field for over two decades.

Ironic fact about me: I spent the better part of a decade building websites for big Pharma. There is likely not a single big Pharma company I have not built a website for.


with data taken from...

Key considerations and limitations of VAERS data:

    Vaccine providers are encouraged to report any clinically significant health problem following vaccination to VAERS, whether or not they believe the vaccine was the cause.
    Reports may include incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental and unverified information.
    The number of reports alone cannot be interpreted or used to reach conclusions about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines.
    VAERS data is limited to vaccine adverse event reports received between 1990 and the most recent date for which data are available.
    VAERS data do not represent all known safety information for a vaccine and should be interpreted in the context of other scientific information.


... like someone who built websites for big pharma would be using this punk-ass wordpress theme.

Sad
Round Earther patiently looking for a better deal...

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1108 on: October 16, 2021, 04:15:51 PM »
Per the legal complaint, the FDA did not refuse to provide information, they refused to expedite the FOIA request. Massive difference there.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1109 on: October 16, 2021, 04:34:06 PM »
You pick and destroy details of peer reviewed studies but you believe this stuff?

an anonymous fake website with links to fake data... published by...  some dude...

It's not anonymous. It says that the editor reporting it is named Jack Bingham. He's reporting news, which is quite different than dispensing scientific opinion in a professional capacity.

Clicking on the links in the article leads to the lawsuit and associated information, showing that the key events in the article are true.

Lawsuit: https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/001-Complaint-101021.pdf

Per the legal complaint, the FDA did not refuse to provide information, they refused to expedite the FOIA request. Massive difference there.

Which is an admission that they have not released it to the public and that the FDA was working against public disclosure. Why wasn't it released to the public on day one? If it wasn't released it means that the FDA was working against public disclosure and still is.

In the lawsuit the organization cites regulation that it should have been released:

https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/001-Complaint-101021.pdf



If it should have been released and wasn't then the FDA either accidentally overlooked it or that they are working against public disclosure. It's hard to believe that they "accidentally" neglected to release the data on which this very scrutinized and high profile vaccine was approved. One is compelled to deduce that they didn't want to release it.

The lawsuit makes a number of arguments that the matter is urgent and shouldn't be slow walked.





What's the definition of immediately?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 09:02:17 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1110 on: October 16, 2021, 07:10:32 PM »
Per the legal complaint, the FDA did not refuse to provide information, they refused to expedite the FOIA request. Massive difference there.
Which is an admission that they have not released it to the public and that the FDA was working against public disclosure. Why wasn't it released to the public on day one? If it wasn't released it means that the FDA was working against public disclosure and still is.

How is it an "admission" of anything? Isn't that rather speculative on your part. Are you an expert in FDA approval policies and procedures?

The FDA denied the expedition, not the overall request. Perhaps the FDA has a whole system around how and when they publish. And perhaps this request for expedited info doesn't fall into the system (Regs) that warrants expedited anything. I have no idea, neither do you, so it seems presumptuous on your part to claim that the FDA is doing something untoward because they are not meeting an arbitrary timeline set by an arbitrary request.

Where does the case stand now? The filing was a month ago.

Also, if interested, you can search the FDA regulations pretty easily:

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm

There's a lot more to C.F.R. § 601.51 (and elsewhere in the Regs) than is mentioned in the filing regarding immediacy, data, disclosure, etc.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1111 on: October 16, 2021, 08:11:28 PM »
Denial of the expediton request is an admission that they did not release it in the first place. They could have said:

- Here it is
- This request is invalid because it was already released, see xx

But this was not the answer. They imply with their answer that they have not released it. If they have not released it they are withholding it from the public.

There would be regulations if there was a "whole system" where the FDA waited until after drugs became approved and released before the public could see the safety data. Where are those regulations?

The regulations that the lawyers in the lawsuit found say that it was supposed to be released immediately. Written in black and white from the FDA itself. You have provided zero contradicting information, and only speculation, that there are alternate regulations which allow them to not release the safety data for the drugs and vaccines it approves. The evidence that you offer for your argument is "I have no idea". A real stunner of an argument from you. ::)

The FOIA request was made on Sept 9th and the followup lawsuit was made on Sept 16th. Five days ago on Oct 11th the group's lawyer said that the FDA has still neglected to provide the information and is delaying it -

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/scientists-sue-the-fda-for-data-it

Why has the FDA, weeks after the filing of a federal lawsuit, still not agreed to timely release this data?  Why does the FDA persist in delaying its release when even federal law states that, once licensed, the “data and information in the biological product file [for the licensed vaccine] are immediately available for public disclosure.” 
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 08:45:40 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1112 on: October 16, 2021, 08:57:04 PM »
Denial of the expediton request is an admission that they did not release it in the first place. They could have said:

- Here it is
- This request is invalid because it was already released, see xx

But this was not the answer. They imply with their answer that they have not released it. If they have not released it they are withholding it from the public.

There would be regulations if there was a "whole system" where the FDA waited until after drugs became approved and released before the public could see the safety data. Where are those regulations?

The regulations that the lawyers in the lawsuit found say that it was supposed to be released immediately. Written in black and white from the FDA itself. You have provided zero contradicting information, and only speculation, that there are alternate regulations which allow them to not release the safety data for the drugs and vaccines it approves. The evidence that you offer for your argument is "I have no idea". A real stunner of an argument from you. ::)

The FOIA request was made on Sept 9th and the followup lawsuit was made on Sept 16th. Five days ago on Oct 11th the group's lawyer said that the FDA has still neglected to provide the information and is delaying it -

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/scientists-sue-the-fda-for-data-it

Why has the FDA, weeks after the filing of a federal lawsuit, still not agreed to timely release this data?  Why does the FDA persist in delaying its release when even federal law states that, once licensed, the “data and information in the biological product file [for the licensed vaccine] are immediately available for public disclosure.” 

The materials are available for disclosure, it’s just not being expedited. Whats so hard to understand here?
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1113 on: October 16, 2021, 09:06:34 PM »
The group's lawyer says that according to federal law it was supposed to be released immediately. Are you a lawyer? Are you a legal expert? He is.


Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1114 on: October 16, 2021, 09:13:37 PM »
The materials are available for disclosure, it’s just not being expedited. Whats so hard to understand here?
I’m honestly wondering if this whole exchange is rooted in Tom not understanding what “expedite” means.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1115 on: October 16, 2021, 09:21:38 PM »
It should not need to be requested or expedited because it was supposed to have been released when the vaccine was licensed

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/scientists-sue-the-fda-for-data-it

You can’t say no, you can’t sue for harm, and you can’t see the data underlying the government’s claim that the product is safe and effective.

...

Why has the FDA, weeks after the filing of a federal lawsuit, still not agreed to timely release this data?  Why does the FDA persist in delaying its release when even federal law states that, once licensed, the “data and information in the biological product file [for the licensed vaccine] are immediately available for public disclosure.” 

The lawyer states that according to federal law this information should have been released when the vaccine was licensed. The public should have access to the the safety data for the vaccines and drugs they are putting into to their bodies.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 09:29:31 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1116 on: October 16, 2021, 10:46:31 PM »
It should not need to be requested or expedited because it was supposed to have been released when the vaccine was licensed

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/scientists-sue-the-fda-for-data-it

You can’t say no, you can’t sue for harm, and you can’t see the data underlying the government’s claim that the product is safe and effective.

...

Why has the FDA, weeks after the filing of a federal lawsuit, still not agreed to timely release this data?  Why does the FDA persist in delaying its release when even federal law states that, once licensed, the “data and information in the biological product file [for the licensed vaccine] are immediately available for public disclosure.” 

The lawyer states that according to federal law this information should have been released when the vaccine was licensed. The public should have access to the the safety data for the vaccines and drugs they are putting into to their bodies.

It is available to be disclosed and that disclosure process is underway.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1117 on: October 16, 2021, 11:01:36 PM »
The group's lawyer says that according to federal law it was supposed to be released immediately. Are you a lawyer? Are you a legal expert? He is.

And an FDA lawyer wrote back saying that the request to expedite was unfounded. Lawyer v Lawyer, two experts in law. I'm sure the lawyers, experts, will work this out.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1118 on: October 16, 2021, 11:14:15 PM »
The group's lawyer says that according to federal law it was supposed to be released immediately. Are you a lawyer? Are you a legal expert? He is.

And an FDA lawyer wrote back saying that the request to expedite was unfounded. Lawyer v Lawyer, two experts in law. I'm sure the lawyers, experts, will work this out.

The FOIA and the request to expedite is good that they made those requests, but irrelevant to the point that it was supposed to have been immediately released when the application was approved. It wasn't. The FDA is withholding safety data from the public in violation of federal law.

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1119 on: October 17, 2021, 12:09:08 AM »
The group's lawyer says that according to federal law it was supposed to be released immediately. Are you a lawyer? Are you a legal expert? He is.

And an FDA lawyer wrote back saying that the request to expedite was unfounded. Lawyer v Lawyer, two experts in law. I'm sure the lawyers, experts, will work this out.

The FOIA and the request to expedite is good that they made those requests, but irrelevant to the point that it was supposed to have been immediately released when the application was approved. It wasn't. The FDA is withholding safety data from the public in violation of federal law.

According to the lawyer who submitted the FOIA. According to the lawyer from the FDA who responded to the request, s/he/them deemed the request for expedition did not qualify under their own regulations. What makes your lawyer's interpretation more worthwhile than the FDA's lawyers? Are you in an interpretive position to say that the FDA is withholding safety data from the public in violation of federal law?  I think not as you are not an expert.

I would leave this up to the courts to decide.